Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 12

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here.

Oh that's hard 🙁. Hopefully she'll appreciate you more as she gets older.

I think it's partly luck and also what we learn from our parents (or other caregivers). So the chance of picking an emotionally mature partner is lower if we're from a dysfunctional family.

@Rainbow03 I think most of my disappointment in dh is his parenting lack of skills.
I wasn't fully aware of how lacking in that department he was until our kids pointed it out. The overwhelming sense of guilt and sadness is something I still struggle with.
Of course I blame myself for choosing dh as the father of my children, logically knowing full well I am not responsible for him.
Emotionally though I feel 100% of the guilt that my beautiful children have such an emotional constipated father.
He on the other hand is blissfully unaware of this lacking, his lack of interest in them is so painful to watch. 😒

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy my ex is very interested in his daughter. But his interest is in how she makes him feel. She looks like him and she is very beautiful. Instead of parenting her and helping her with some of the difficult parts of her ADHD he does nothing but tell her how beautiful her face is and how this is all down to “his” DNA. (I suppose it’s better as maybe she has more of my brain in return) I wish in a way he had no interest, but I know either way there is damage. She is just an extension of him and he is up is own arse. I often wonder how connected personality disorders are with ND.

@LoveFoolMe I agree that so much of who we become and what we accept/expect is formed in our childhood.
My dad left when I was really young, my mum never remarried until after I left home. I actually had no idea what a dad's role was. I had no male figures growing up. Sadly I think i just thought a dad 'presence' was required to fulfil the role. Looks like that's exactly what I got.😔

I grew up with an unwell mum. She has M.S but I suspect she also had mental health issues, she blew hot and very cold, prone to extreme sulking and temper when loss of control. You had to walk on eggshells with her moods. I loved my dad but he walked on eggshells and allowed this behaviour from her. I was emotionally neglected and became a people pleaser with little identity. I’m sorry for those who had horrible childhoods, it’s such a disability in itself.

Solidarity to all those dealing with guilt about who their kids' dad is. I live with that too, and with guilt about the childhood they have as a result.

Yes, I have that guilt too.

Also a childhood with a lot of loss and no decent fathers at all. The one I had for longest was authoritarian, unpaternal and unnurturing and couldn't say a nice word about me if his chest hair was on fire. He's literally blamed me in the past for a flock of starlings flying overhead and one crapping on him. (Even then I was secretly cheering the starling on).

I was drawn to my ex because he seemed kind, steady, and very witty. The kindness disappeared with the flick of a marriage ring into stonewalling, the steadiness was extreme inflexibility and the wittiness doesn't make up for not wanting to take me to hospital when going into sepsis etc.

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress I too was drawn to my H because of him seemingly being steady, kind, reliable yet also witty and ridiculously intelligent.

At the time we met he had a dog whom he doted on and looked after so well that I was convinced he'd be the most amazing parent. Fast-forward to DD being born and within 10 days the mask slipped and I probably should have left him then.

Sad isn’t it, the damage done in childhood. I’ve posted many times about my autistic father and how unlike these other loving would-do-anything for their children fathers he is. He wasn’t unaffectionate or unemotional, just that he wouldn’t go out of way to help us unless he could get the “favour” back. Everything in the house done the way he liked and the control he had over all of us. And the anger and shouting. My mum’s opinions and needs were just plain wrong in his view and he would oppress her and shout at her if she spoke up. She had a set of household rules she had to adhere to. The strict regime and punishments when you didn’t do as told. The overt value placed on his children being popular and academically strong. It saddens me I have chosen a DP who is like a paired down version of this. He isn’t anywhere near as inflexible or controlling, but he is very strict with his children and they are under no illusion they need to obey without dissent. He can’t understand why my children answer back or protest. It’s outside of his reference point and he just thinks I’m a shit parent. To me my children are just normal kids. I can see the damage he is doing to his own children. I can see that they think control and anger are normal, how they play him and manipulate him to go up against their mum when she does something they don’t like. How they feed his negativity by slagging off their mum all the time. Which I’ve said again and again isn’t right and is damaging them. He agrees at the time, but then cannot stop himself speaking about her negatively as, in his eyes, “but she’s in the wrong!” How he encourages them to not do as they’re told if they don’t agree with their teacher. Again “the teacher is wrong” and he will slag off the teacher, the head, the school to them. Not helpful!!! Consequently neither like school and both children are bullies. But this is what they have learnt.

I know my mum felt awful about the father she had inadvertently chosen for us. Really guilty. I’m not sure her continued references to feeling like no man would ever love her if she didn’t marry him and how she didn’t want to be on her own were great for my developing feelings of empowerment!! Thanks mum!! She was wonderful and did her best to counteract his awfulness, but she had her own issues…..

Wish I could say my parenting was better, but it probably isn’t.

I just had a conversation with my DM about our recent stay with her and she likened my H's behaviour to that of my DF's when they were still married. She's 100% behind me breaking it off as soon.as I can. So until I was 10 I lived with an abusive father and no surprise I ended up marrying not one but two abusive men really.

Neither of my parents are on the spectrum. But they both have their own trauma. I’ve learnt that I was supposed to appease and accept unacceptable behaviours, even when they were hurtful, in the name of love.

But what I’m slowly learning now is that it’s doesn’t have to be that way.
im learning about boundaries.
But I’ve had to really be pushed into a corner to do that (and yes DH being not respecting my needs wasn’t enough!).

Ive decided to not see it as something sad. But as the opportunity that life gave me to learn.
i AM sad for my dcs and what they learnt as children. I’m hoping I can ‘save’ my relationship with them and make it more open, more nurturing, caring and trustworthy.

I was drawn to DP because we were friends and we had a lot to talk about and laugh about. He didn’t take himself too seriously and we joked a lot.

We had both lost our mothers. Mine quite recently and his some time ago, but I was grieving and I didn’t know anyone else whose mum was dead. It was nice to have someone who understood.

He was generous and outgoing and very different to my austere self conscious husband who didn’t like talking to strangers or ordering a take away over the phone or walking into a restaurant and saying “hello, we made a booking for 8pm” kind of thing. Always made me walk in first so I would have to deal with the people. Always made me call places even though I am deaf and really struggle on the phone. I had to deal with all the tradespeople always as he would refuse to speak to them! Whereas DP was happy to talk to anyone and not shy in the slightest. Lack of confidence is so unappealing in a man (to me anyway) and DP has bundles of confidence. Never gets embarrassed and will talk to anyone. I liked that. It was so different to my ex.

DP also was very hands on with his kids. Took them to all their activities, organised stuff to do with them and he did tons of housework (cooking, DIY). My ex left all the childcare and household stuff, including making repairs to our roof one time, to me, whereas DP was so hands on. Nothing too much trouble. Never complained about being asked to do something. The opposite of lazy. When you’ve married someone who refuses to lift a finger….. my bar was low and DP looked like the perfect man. Outgoing and hands on, the complete opposite of my shit exH.

It took a year or more before I started to see the other side of him. The wanting things to always be done his way (maybe that’s why he was hands on, so he got to control how things were done!), the short temper and explosions of rage. The unbearable hypocrisy of which he is totally
unaware. The negativity about other people all the time. The rewriting history - whole conversation it seems - imagined but forced on me as “fact” and there being no chance of him
accepting he hasn’t got it 100% right. He outright lies and I am never quite sure whether he starts off knowing he’s not being truthful but then starts to believe it, or believes it from the off…. the “frustration” (read anger) when he hasn’t communicated clearly but then blames me for not understanding him. The inability to face things he doesn’t want to do and the huge effort he will give over to avoidance. The mess and stuff everywhere. The pontificating knowledgeably on matters he knows nothing about but enjoying sounding like an expert, or so he thinks, when everyone is cringing and rolling their eyes.

But the worst thing is his sensitivity to criticism. It knows no bounds. Anything. Literally anything can be skewed into him feeling criticised and his reaction to that (anger, obvs!) is immense. He thinks he is owed an apology for the criticism but doesn’t realise (a) either he wasn’t being criticised at all or the criticism was truly deserved, neither of which means he is owed an apology! And (b) his reaction is 1000% times larger than it should be and horrendously
abusive. And it is him who should be grovelling his apologies. But no, he cannot be criticised ever.

We had been friends for 2-3 years and I didn’t spot any of these things. But it’s the boiled frog isn’t it, because in my case it didn’t start overnight at all. It was bit by bit. And I was in love with him still. Funny but I don’t recognise that foolish woman anymore…. It feels like another life and a different person not connected to me in any way.

I am sorry that you’ve repeated history. We are so susceptible to doing so aren’t we? Wonderful that you’re going to break free. All strength and power to you 💪 xxxx

@SpecialMangeTout It doesn't have to be something sad, I agree with that, instead I try to see it as a chance to learn, understand, accept, grow and move forwards with new boundaries. Also hoping that by doing so DD will have a life with healthier relationships that I've had.

I actually thought my partner after my abusive one I had chosen much more wiser. But he has turned out to be autistic. Not a problem at all but I thought when we dated he was emotionally ok. Not that ND people are not ok, sorry I’m not trying to upset anyone. But the longer it goes on the more I see the lack of empathy. Eg our toddler wants kisses all the time and he feels funny and won’t do it to her. He says she better not try all that emotional tantrum nonsense with me. I think the familiarity is deeply engrained. I chose similar again.

The patterns we are used to, specially from childhood, go SO deep. People very often pick someone like their father / first partner, or go completely the other way. There's not that many who completely break free and make fully their own choices.

Yes, I know what you mean. I had this conversation with a dear childhood friend in Sweden last week, basically how do we avoid doing this again? Like me she's ended up with two abusive partners (possibly ND, my friend and I are ASD and ADHD respectively and have always had 'similar' taste in men) in a row and is trying to break the cycle. I did suggest that my recent 'crush' might suggest I'm now going for something different but I just don't know right now.

My current partner is 100 times better than the last. So as long as I don’t need any emotional support then we good. Unlike the last who needed constant emotional support but gave none my current doesn’t need emotional support. It’s not ideal but it’s not volatile. Ive just come to the conclusion a lot of men aren’t that good at offering emotional support so im in the process of developing a wider circle.

Glad your current parner is much better and not volatile, it gives me a bit of hope! A wider circle for support sounds like a good idea too.

Thank you! It's probably madness as have nowhere to go but have enough funds to check DD and I in somewhere for a few days/week should we need to. I keep telling myself it will be ok and it will work out somehow!

Would anyone be able to share how co-parenting has worked for you/DC if you have broken up with your ND partner/DH? I know this will obviously vary a great deal depending on the individual and as in my own case staying is often because co-parenting would not work/not 'safe' for DC.

Although my behaviour H's could be described as abusive and definitely passive aggressive, it's not enough to probably stop contact so will need some form of co-parenting thing out. But I'm hugely conflicted about what is best for DD as she loves him and they do have fun together at times plus
he can be super attentive to DDs needs and deal with meltdowns well. But this all depends on how well regulated he is and it's unpredictable, sadly. Ideally I am hoping he is able to regulate better when it's only required on him on his 'days'/weekends.

I suspect we'll be living together as separated for a while first, depending on how he reacts when I tell him. If I remember correctly his ex before me lived here for absolute ages in separate rooms until she eventually moved out and he kept the house and dog (!!) They are actually still friends and I've met her a few times, which might seem strange but I saw it as a green flag that they were still on good terms, just weren't compatible. So hoping that we can be somewhat amicable!

With my ex, it has been very difficult at times. Actually the will to work reasonably well together was there, but his ability to see danger and his ability to handle difficult situations is ..... not good. So yes, there were serious concerns, and indeed I got the local Social Services involved at one point. Chocolate teapots, but at least they were clear that if a certain situation happened again they would have to have much more involvement. There have been some absolutely dreadful verbal incidents too, but they would have happened anyway honestly.

Honestly, it's not been ideal. It comes down essentially to not having chosen a father for my children well :s

But, we are better parents apart than together. He has a good girlfriend who is sometimes pours oil into the trouble waters in the difficult situations (we go for a walk now and then, I like her).

I did take extremely high quality advice and the lady said that if I can provide a stable, decent example then that will go a long way towards keeping them on the right track. I talk to them about incidents, and msot of all listen. That helps them a lot.

There will be damage (and I'm not perfect either, but given a broken background myself I sought out and took some very good parenting advice). In the end, the situation is what it is and I can't make things perfect, much as I'd love to. But it is infinitely better now than when we were together, for everyone.

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress thank you for sharing, that is really helpful. It's so hard but it sounds like communication is the key and like you I will need to be ready to get social services involved should I need to. If DD was in school I could make them aware too.

I'm hoping that by being nearly 10 yo DD will be a bit more self sufficient so some situations can be better avoided. No idea if she'll be doing overnights as I've never spend one single night away from her so far. But I need to, even in some sort of initial 'nesting' scenario.

My partner has a girlfriend who is pretty good I think and does the fair share of the work, he has chosen well again. I think they are all so different that it’s hard to say how it will go. What I have learned is that my daughter will for now look past all his faults, make excuses, allow many things to pass because she simply loves him. I did the same as a child and all I can think of doing to make it better for her then I is to be there when she gets to an age where she starts to question. I didn’t have a parent to give those questions to but she will have me. I hope that makes a difference for these kids. We have absolutely no control over what happens. Even after 3 years in court and no contact during I still have zero control really. They do what they do and say what they say and it will be what it will be and I will be here worrying my little heart out regardless as I’m sure you will too @LittleSwede. I think a lot comes down to how malicious they are. My ex took great offence to me leaving, how very dare I when he was so amazing and gave me everything…he made sure to tell her about me in his words unfortunately. But that’s the narc part of him not the ND.

Yes, the scary part is that we have no control @Rainbow03 but I can't live like this and so I will have to accept that this is the only way. I hope that DD having me when she is with me is better than her watching me being belittled and mocked by H as I fear that will be even worse. Not sure how malicious H will be, he does scowl when things doesn't go his way and is quite passive aggressive but rarely properly nasty and never violent. I think some of his behaviours are narc traits rather than ND but not quite sure.