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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Who Is She????!!!!!

681 replies

TipsyJoker · 08/07/2024 14:55

Hey lovelies,

I just wanted to ask some advice. I saw on my husbands messenger that he’s been messaging some woman I’ve never seen or heard of before. I didn’t read the messages so I don’t know the content of them. I just saw her in his messages. I checked Facebook and it seems like they’re not friends. So I did a little bit of digging. They have no seeming connection to each other. No friends in common. They don’t work together or even in the same field. She lives about 400 miles away. He’s never mentioned her to me. They don’t have any obvious common likes on fb. She’s also married with 2 kids.

I was a bit suspicious because he is ALWAYS on his phone. He takes it everywhere with him, even into the bathroom. So I peeked over when he was on messenger and saw her in his messages. I haven’t snooped but it’s been eating away at me ever since and it’s been months. I know he’s not physically cheated. However, my gut has been screaming at me for months. Prior to this I had no reason to doubt him.

There’s no public trace of them communicating on Facebook. It just seems weird to me. It also seems he has set his profile so I can’t see when he posts in groups he’s in, etc. He has also set it so when he gets a message to his phone it just says message and doesn’t display a name.

I don’t want to outright ask him in case it’s nothing or in case it is something and it just makes him more sneaky and cover his tracks even more so.

Would it be wrong to check this one conversation with this women? I know it’s an invasion of privacy but I really can’t see any other way that I will find out the truth one way or the other. I think if I asked him and there was anything going on he’d just deny it because why wouldn’t he?

Any advice on what to do here? It’s affecting me and making me feel subconscious and angry. We haven’t been as intimate for a while, (not my choice) but I just put that down to life with a young baby and being tired a lot.
Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
taylorswift1989 · 14/07/2024 20:34

Don't think anyone's advised you to go nuclear, OP? But I do think you should talk to your husband. You've got zero evidence he's done anything wrong, but in your mind, the marriage is "wrecked" and you can never trust him again. So I don't know how you possibly go forward now without opening a conversation.

But then I am always amazed by people living in unhappy marriages who refuse to communicate with their partners and just chip away at each other until they're both dead inside. And then say it was all for the kids.

Palpatation · 14/07/2024 21:02

taylorswift1989 · 14/07/2024 20:34

Don't think anyone's advised you to go nuclear, OP? But I do think you should talk to your husband. You've got zero evidence he's done anything wrong, but in your mind, the marriage is "wrecked" and you can never trust him again. So I don't know how you possibly go forward now without opening a conversation.

But then I am always amazed by people living in unhappy marriages who refuse to communicate with their partners and just chip away at each other until they're both dead inside. And then say it was all for the kids.

Talk to him? he will just can deny it all, because OP does not yet have the evidence. You cannot bring it up with him unless you have the evidence in front of you. She does not have nothing to go on, his behavior suggests he is up to no good.

TipsyJoker · 14/07/2024 21:09

Palpatation · 14/07/2024 21:02

Talk to him? he will just can deny it all, because OP does not yet have the evidence. You cannot bring it up with him unless you have the evidence in front of you. She does not have nothing to go on, his behavior suggests he is up to no good.

Exactly correct.

OP posts:
TipsyJoker · 14/07/2024 21:14

taylorswift1989 · 14/07/2024 20:34

Don't think anyone's advised you to go nuclear, OP? But I do think you should talk to your husband. You've got zero evidence he's done anything wrong, but in your mind, the marriage is "wrecked" and you can never trust him again. So I don't know how you possibly go forward now without opening a conversation.

But then I am always amazed by people living in unhappy marriages who refuse to communicate with their partners and just chip away at each other until they're both dead inside. And then say it was all for the kids.

I was living in a very happy marriage with great communication until very recently. Don’t try to insinuate that this is somehow my fault because I’ve done nothing wrong. Speaking to him at this juncture will achieve absolutely nothing except more lies and less trust. I need evidence first as PP said. When I have evidence I can confront him and I’ll know if he’s lying or not. If he tells me the truth at that point then we may be able to move forward. If not, then we won’t but I am not going to make rash decisions that potentially jeopardise my children’s future stability. It might not be what you would do and that’s fine. I thank you for your input and viewpoint but I don’t think it’s the right advice for this scenario at this time.

OP posts:
Grah · 14/07/2024 22:04

Somebody said earlier in the thread to message her husband. Ffs do not do this. How stupid would you feel if there's nothing to it? Would you be happy to ruin another marriage?
I have messages on my phone from male colleagues, people I've sold stuff to, the man who lived in this house before us, neighbours, old colleagues/friends. I'd go fucking apeshit if one of their wives contacted my husband and suggested there was more to it than there was.
If there's something wrong with your marriage, sort your marriage out. Talk to him. But I seriously think from what I've read it's over. You're not going to trust him again.

Thewookiemustgo · 14/07/2024 22:09

@TipsyJoker anyone’s decision to cheat is exactly that: theirs.
You did nothing to cause this, nobody can make anyone cheat, they have to decide to.
There are no reasons to cheat, cheating is an option, a deliberate choice, one choice amongst a range of other far more honourable, honest ways of dealing with whatever issues they may have had.
There are no excuses for cheating, no ‘reasons’, no blame-shifting, all the blame lies with the person choosing to cheat.
The only thing you are responsible for is your 50% of the relationship. He is responsible or his 50% of the relationship and 100% of any cheating behaviour.
Assumptions of ‘people in happy relationships never cheat’ or ‘there must have been something wrong with the marriage/ spouse’ are false assumptions.
All you can safely assume with infidelity is that there is definitely something wrong with the character of the person who chooses cheating rather than integrity, honesty, honour and loyalty.

AdviceNeeded2024 · 14/07/2024 22:25

@TipsyJoker You sound like you’ve communicated fine and this has blindsided you. Don’t listen to unhelpful posts.
I’m sorry you couldn’t get to see the messages and get the closure you need. You need a plan about how you want to approach this, but you don’t need to carry out that plan right now. Think about if you want to salvage the relationship, if you do both will need to work hard, him to regain your trust and you to trust him again. (He needs to work harder than you by the way!)
I think you need to talk to him. Probably have counselling too.
I limped on for 10 months and mine wouldn’t stop lying and has made no effort with me so I’m done and we’re having a horrible split. I gave it much careful thought but his lack of effort and me discovering more messages with someone else made it untenable.
Talk to your H if you can, when you’re ready and then take it from there. I totally understand where you’re coming from and it’s not as easy as just leave, especially when there’s kids and houses in the mix

Garlickest · 14/07/2024 22:32

TipsyJoker · 09/07/2024 17:13

I’m not sure. He def doesn’t like criticism and he often takes things the wrong way and perceives them as criticism when they’re not. He also likes the finer things in life. He spends way more money on himself than anyone else in the family.

I'm interested in this. It does impact what may be happening and how things could develop.

You're certainly describing a person who is more narcissistic than average - what, in common parlance, we might call "full of himself" or self-absorbed, maybe self-important. Personality characteristics exist on a sliding scale, and having zero narcissism is just as much a disorder as having too much.

People with personality disorders are what we used to call "mad" (a useful word, now sadly disapproved!) Their responses to situations can be abnormal and, most significantly, are inflexible. Even when their abnormal behaviours cause serious problems they could do without, their thought patterns are too rigid to change. They can manage a slight tweak here and there, yet it makes no difference because they operate to psychological scripts from which they cannot deviate. That's the element making it a disorder.

The only exception is psychopathy: people with this disorder can adapt and incorporate other people's perspectives into their scripts. People with the other disorders do not actually believe or care that different humans think & feel differently from one another. Psychopaths, by the way, are very narcissistic.

Would you say your mysterious husband is "mad" or just a bit in love with himself? How does he react to criticism, perceived slights or not getting his own way? Has it ever seemed a bit over the top to you?

Why isn't he working at present? Sorry if I missed it - is it some outside cause like an injury, or does it have anything to do with other people stitching him up, letting him down and generally failing to revere his unique brilliance?

Would you say he understands other people? In his relations with you, children, family or friends, does he seem to have a single, rigid picture of who they are or does he demonstrate insight into their individual lives and characters? If the latter, does this seem within the range of normal engagement or is there an element of manipulation, looking for the hooks or weaknesses that could be employed to gain control?

Does he despise a lot of people? I don't know about you, but most of us despise a lot of people! Most of us wish no harm to them, though, and would rush to their aid if they needed it. Disordered people wouldn't unless there was some benefit to them.

Finally, does he have unusually high or low expectations of your children?

You obviously don't have to answer any of this - and I am not performing an internet diagnosis. It's more that I've picked up a few things you've said and am concerned about the effects of a potential absence of normal morals/ethics as you proceed with trying to solve the problem in your marriage.

taylorswift1989 · 14/07/2024 22:50

TipsyJoker · 14/07/2024 21:14

I was living in a very happy marriage with great communication until very recently. Don’t try to insinuate that this is somehow my fault because I’ve done nothing wrong. Speaking to him at this juncture will achieve absolutely nothing except more lies and less trust. I need evidence first as PP said. When I have evidence I can confront him and I’ll know if he’s lying or not. If he tells me the truth at that point then we may be able to move forward. If not, then we won’t but I am not going to make rash decisions that potentially jeopardise my children’s future stability. It might not be what you would do and that’s fine. I thank you for your input and viewpoint but I don’t think it’s the right advice for this scenario at this time.

I didn't try to insinuate that it's your fault. You sound like you've actually got lots of clarity on what's happening and what you want to do about it. So that's a good outcome for you, given that you were at a loss when you first posted. So I'm glad to have helped make things clearer for you, and wish you luck.

beanii · 14/07/2024 23:10

TipsyJoker · 14/07/2024 20:11

I’m so sorry that happened to you. I totally agree with everything you’ve said. I will not make any rash decisions. It’s all to easy for people to say, “just leave/will you ever trust him again/confront him now” because I really don’t think those actions will produce very good results. I have to think of my children and not just my feelings. If we didn’t have children I would probably go nuclear and maybe at some point I still will, but not today. I have to process what’s happening and make smart decisions. It’s tough but I can handle it.

Do not under any circumstances 'stay together for the sake of the children' - you're teaching them that you stay where you're unhappy - that's not a healthy relationship.

You need to have a long hard think about if YOU are truly happy, can YOU get passed this or was it there all along but this has made you admit it isn't the happy marriage you portray.

The younger the children are, the quicker they adapt.

Respectisnotoptional · 14/07/2024 23:13

Well done OP for taking time and not rushing into any drastic action, unfortunately LTB is standard Mums net advice. In fact I feel the replies from the very start of your thread have been far too pushy.
You’re definitely doing the right thing your whole future is at stake.
Take your time.

Secondstart1001 · 15/07/2024 00:07

@TipsyJoker seems like he is on to you hence the deleted messages and being nicer to you and leaving devices around. He wants to show you he has nothing to hide. So he may have a second phone or device he keeps with him.

This will be a big like a game of poker so my advice to you is respond positively to him if you can stomach him. Let him think you suspect nothing. But do not buy into this changed behaviour.

Give him space to let his guard down then find what you need for your sanity.

As I said before, don’t obsess over it, I know you have children and need to take care of them and be present. Allow yourself an hour a day to go into these thoughts / worries but then stop, you need to preserve your mental health and this is a technique that counsellors do encourage. Keep yourself strong and don’t let the posters on here getting frustrated with you have any impact on your actions. This is your life, you decide what to do and when, it’s not a binge watch on Netflix.

I think a big problem on mumsnet is when posters turn on the op when their advice is not followed and it usually drives the Op away in the end which is a sad outcome.

Petitchat · 15/07/2024 00:36

Yes, bide your time if you can OP.
My thoughts are with you, It must be awful.
Hope you manage to get some sleep.

MsDogLady · 15/07/2024 01:23

We are in solidarity with you, @TipsyJoker. You know what the right plan is for yourself and the children.

SlightlyJaded · 15/07/2024 12:37

OP I completely understand the tricky position you are in. It's a marriage, a lifetime - you need clarity. On the other hand, you say the trust is broken so something has to give.

I don't know if this is helpful advice but I will share my cousin's experience as it's very similar.

She fleetingly saw some messages from someone called 'Mike' but they were full of emojis and signed off with a kiss. That didn't sit well with her at all but her DH was holding the phone the time. So this, along with her DH changed behaviour (secretive/cold etc) sent her gut reeling. She did know his password but when she finally had a chance to look at his messages (when he ONCE forgot to take his phone to the bathroom) - 'Mike' was nowhere to be seen.

With no evidence and no chance of getting any, but with absolute certainty in her gut, she confronted him very honestly and basically told him:

I know. I don't know all the details and frustratingly I don't know as much as I need to know in order to make a decision, but I know. And you can either now truthfully fill me in - which means I will be able to think about what to do, and you will be freed from having a secret that must be very hard to manage - or you can minimise. What you can't do is deny, because I do know.

If you choose not to elaborate or mug me off with 'banter' type rubbish, I will assume the worst and it's over.

If you tell me the truth, we may have a chance.

If you want out - here's your chance.

if you don't want out - see above. But it will ultimately be my decision.

They went round in circles for a couple of days, but in the end he admitted to a an affair and she could leave knowing that he had crossed a line she couldn't forgive. Sometimes the relief of getting it out is appealing to these selfish fucks.

Good luck OP.

Coldfinch · 15/07/2024 12:46

Secondstart1001 · 15/07/2024 00:07

@TipsyJoker seems like he is on to you hence the deleted messages and being nicer to you and leaving devices around. He wants to show you he has nothing to hide. So he may have a second phone or device he keeps with him.

This will be a big like a game of poker so my advice to you is respond positively to him if you can stomach him. Let him think you suspect nothing. But do not buy into this changed behaviour.

Give him space to let his guard down then find what you need for your sanity.

As I said before, don’t obsess over it, I know you have children and need to take care of them and be present. Allow yourself an hour a day to go into these thoughts / worries but then stop, you need to preserve your mental health and this is a technique that counsellors do encourage. Keep yourself strong and don’t let the posters on here getting frustrated with you have any impact on your actions. This is your life, you decide what to do and when, it’s not a binge watch on Netflix.

I think a big problem on mumsnet is when posters turn on the op when their advice is not followed and it usually drives the Op away in the end which is a sad outcome.

This ☝️

If you look at your general Bluetooth settings, are there any other devices in the house you don’t recognise? How do you know he is home - you said he’s recently been off work due to illness.

I don’t mean to probe you - I am trying to get you to think more laterally.

TipsyJoker · 15/07/2024 19:00

Coldfinch · 15/07/2024 12:46

This ☝️

If you look at your general Bluetooth settings, are there any other devices in the house you don’t recognise? How do you know he is home - you said he’s recently been off work due to illness.

I don’t mean to probe you - I am trying to get you to think more laterally.

No there’s no extra devices. I know where he is at all times because I’m always with him. He’s off sick and I am basically his carer so we are always together. He never leaves the house without me and I am very rarely away from the house for any length of time. It’s more that he is always on his phone, sometimes he sleeps on the couch and I can see he’s been on messenger till the early hours of the morning. I am absolutely certain he’s not met her in person. It’s all online.

OP posts:
Coldfinch · 15/07/2024 22:34

TipsyJoker · 15/07/2024 19:00

No there’s no extra devices. I know where he is at all times because I’m always with him. He’s off sick and I am basically his carer so we are always together. He never leaves the house without me and I am very rarely away from the house for any length of time. It’s more that he is always on his phone, sometimes he sleeps on the couch and I can see he’s been on messenger till the early hours of the morning. I am absolutely certain he’s not met her in person. It’s all online.

How puzzling @TipsyJoker

for the sake of you and your little ones, change your own mobile phone lock. Keep a diary of all the things that you come across or behaviour that’s unusual. Seek solace in your kids and family and continue watching from an able. Make sure you keep an eye on his earnings and monies spent.

Help23 · 15/07/2024 22:37

If he's not well and definitely not physically seeing anyone else but maybe messaging randomly online, is it as upsetting? I'm not trying to undermine how you feel just adding to the conversation that he may feel down if not well and relatively innocently chatting to strangers or old friends.. xx

TipsyJoker · 15/07/2024 22:45

Help23 · 15/07/2024 22:37

If he's not well and definitely not physically seeing anyone else but maybe messaging randomly online, is it as upsetting? I'm not trying to undermine how you feel just adding to the conversation that he may feel down if not well and relatively innocently chatting to strangers or old friends.. xx

If he was, there would be no reason to hide it. He tells me about all his other old friends he messages. And yes, it would be as bad if it was, “just” online. They could be sending sex videos to each other, sexting, calling and masterbating together, he could be buying her things, they could be planning to meet. And apart from that, it’s still sharing intimacy outside our marriage with another woman. It’s still deceitful and lying by omission. If I was doing the same he would go absolutely ape shit. So, yes, it is as bad. In some ways it’s worse because it’s so sneaky and it’s happening when I’m literally in the same room! I’m sure he’s messaged her, saying who knows what whilst I’ve been sitting in the same room. How disrespectful is that?! They probably got off on it. And her husband was prob there next to her too. It’s vile.

OP posts:
Aldertrees · 15/07/2024 22:57

You say he's ill and you are now his carer. Is he having an active but fantasy life through his phone?

TipsyJoker · 15/07/2024 23:02

Aldertrees · 15/07/2024 22:57

You say he's ill and you are now his carer. Is he having an active but fantasy life through his phone?

Im not sure I know what you mean by an active fantasy life. The woman I saw he’s been messaging is a real woman. He’s been keeping their relationship secret. Who knows what he tells her. Probably a load of rubbish about how he’s unhappily married and a victim of some kind when the reality is, we have had a great relationship and I’ve always gone the extra mile for him and loved him through thick and thin, sickness and health, as I vowed to do when we married.

OP posts:
Aldertrees · 15/07/2024 23:09

If he's hasn't met up with this woman and it's all on the phone then it is an imaginary world away from his sickly reality.

I'm not trying to condone infidelity if that is what is going on. Just that he might wake up and realise what an idiot he's being. What sort of illness is it?

Maybe take a break from going the extra mile for him so he has space to appreciate or miss you.

Cobbledstreets · 15/07/2024 23:17

He’s off sick and I am basically his carer so we are always together.

Not sure if you mentioned this before but if so I missed it. This is very interesting . It’s quite common when a man is unwell and needs his wife to care for him, to feel trapped, emasculated etc and even secretly resent their partner. So this could be his way of seeking a temporary escape from those feelings by conducting this long distance affair whether he intends to meet up with her or not. He will also have lots of time on his hands for chatting to women online if he’s off sick.

Why does he choose to sleep on the couch
sometimes? Is that a recent thing?

ETA: to be clear this doesn't make it any less wrong and it’s still infidelity and betrayal whether he meets her in person or not. If anything it adds insult to injury - to be caring for someone and sticking by them through their illness while they are busy cheating on you.

TipsyJoker · 15/07/2024 23:17

Aldertrees · 15/07/2024 23:09

If he's hasn't met up with this woman and it's all on the phone then it is an imaginary world away from his sickly reality.

I'm not trying to condone infidelity if that is what is going on. Just that he might wake up and realise what an idiot he's being. What sort of illness is it?

Maybe take a break from going the extra mile for him so he has space to appreciate or miss you.

No I’m sorry, it’s very real and very damaging to our marriage and our family. And also to this woman’s husband and children too. Being unwell, although difficult doesn’t give carte Blanche to cheat on your wife. It doesn’t matter what sort of illness it is. It’s not life limiting but it is a chronic illness. And he should be coming to me for comfort and distraction away from his, “sickly reality”. Thats what your spouse is there for. To support you, love you and cheer you up. You don’t go running to some other woman.

OP posts: