Has anyone married a narcissist MIL’s scapegoat son? What was the outcome?

[Ioftenwonder]

I’m being punished and ignored and have been for some time now. Sadly that means her son and granddaughter also. The ignoring and comments got progressively worse after he moved in and then again when our baby was born. She is super focused on the other brother and his family currently. Telling them how amazing they are etc whereas
not spoken to me and granddaughter for 6 weeks now. I had a thread about this and it appears he has a narc mum and he was the scapegoat. She interfered in all his previous relationships so much so he didn’t have one longer then a year before I came along. She would always tell him they weren’t the right women for him according to him. He was 31 when I met him.

How did this pan out for others who have been in this position? I’m a bit worried what the future holds.

Couldn’t be bothered to remain in the group. I still have them all individually if they need me and all on social media still. But yes I feel I am fulfilling the scapegoat role now unfortunately.

Why is you DH coming back and reporting what she said to you though? Does he not agree with your stance on it? what does he say when she says the lack of contact is all your fault?

He is extremely enmeshed in it all. I get this feeling deep down that she will come between us. Unless he really sees what’s happening which is hard because it’s insidious and she/they so lovely to others and it’s done very underhanded. People tend to need proof when it’s hard to offer proof with this. She makes me feel bloody awful, it could look to others that it’s just me.

I really feel for you in this situation. I’m speaking as the scapegoat of a narcissistic mother and all I’ll say is it’s a miracle I saw the light and escaped at all. The enmeshment and trauma bonding is real. The best thing for your husband would be to get into therapy with a narcissistic informed therapist, read and research the topic and meditate. Take a look at the stately homes thread here in relationships, maybe your husband could take a look? It’s very hard to show or explain the reality of this situation to your husband because he, presumably, doesn’t see his family dynamic as toxic and dysfunctional. From my own experience phrases like, “life is too short…..that’s just how mum is…..be the bigger person” would always be bandied about to keep the scapegoat down. Does he suffer with anxiety or depression at all? No need to reply but if he did then therapy for that could open up the discussion with regards his childhood. Best of luck to you and your husband.

It’s sad he is locked in that situation.

Show him the thread.

It’s not got to a head enough yet. He doesn’t see anything. I know it’s probably hard to understand. From the outside the dysfunction is obvious. If I said you need therapy he’d probably think I was mad.

its been so hard to explain to strangers on here and many posters think Im mad or silly. I tired to talk to a friend and I realise I sound ridiculous. Imagine trying to tell it to a partner who thinks everything is aok.

Ignore..He can take dc to visit MIL by himself.

then, with kindness, it is up to you to keep your family together if that's what you want. By going the way you are and doing your one woman protest you are letting her win, she is driving a wedge between you and your DH and it is probably what she intended all along by treating you badly, she has probably done it to sabotage every relationship he has ever had and she has succeeded up to now, your DH is not on your side here, and by opting out you are relinquishing the tiny bit of control you had to start with.

no contact is a great way of cutting toxic people from your life, I've had to do it, but it is brutal, you have to sever all ties and walk away forever, IMO that's the only way you can let go of all the hurt and anger. if your husband is as enmeshed as you say you can't possibly sever those ties you will be stuck like this and you will resent him for it and he will blame you for it, it's not a real solution.

You can't change other peoples behaviour, only your own, so stop trying to gain her approval or try to make her like you.. she knows you (and your DH) crave it so will dangle it for you.. it's the only power she has over you, the only way to stop people like her is to literally not care what she thinks of you (or pretend to not care in the very least), or how much better she treats other people, or how she compares everyone else, don't rise to it, find your inner confidence to not care and just focus on your own family unit and what makes you all happy.

I know it's different but I had a step mum who was awful, I was only 10 when she came into my life but she resented me and everything I represented about my dads previous life (or 'baggage' as she called me), she pretended to be nice at times, but she would do anything to make me feel unwelcome, or make remarks and put me down and belittle me at every opportunity, my dad did anything for a quiet life so just ignored it, as a child it is a real mindfuck, but as I got to be an adult I saw her for what she was, a jealous pathetic woman who was so insecure in herself that she had to put everyone down around her, me in particular because she wanted me to strop off and never come back or have a relationship with my dad, and I was determined not to let her 'win'. I realised it was her that had the issue not me, so I just stopped caring.. I found my inner confidence, never bit back or argued, I used to use little dismissive sentences like 'that's an interesting take on it' (eye roll), then change the subject, or 'yes, we all know how you feel by now, you've told me enough times' (fake laugh), and treat her little digs as if she had told a joke, she hated it! Once she realised she had no power over me like she did when I was a child, we came to quite an uneasy truce of acceptance, I accepted that she didn't want me around, and she accepted that she couldn't get rid of me, she never became a decent human being but I managed to still have a relationship with my dad which was all I cared about.

These people do walk amongst us though so I fully sympathise with your problem, the worst thing you can do is let it affect your home life when she isn't even there.

@sandyhappypeople you are totally right. God she must be loving it. I’ve spoken to him recently before realising what she was doing. I told him that it hurts, that I really wanted to feel like part of the family. He had a word with her and asked if she could make an effort. She didn’t but she is probably happy that she knows she caused me to hurt. I feel stupid now.

WTF is wrong with there people!!!

I would be very disappointed and mad as hell with my DP/H if he didn't have my back in such a situation.

You say he doesn't realise how this affects you. Why is that? Is it because Mummy rules or he doesn't want to rock the boat? He has been treated very badly by her too, but probably just craves her love and attention (even though he's an adult). He will never get it, and neither will you.

I think I'd have to give him an ultimatum. Mummy or me. I know that is easier said than done, but that is the only thing that will work in the end.

If you cannot rely on DP it's all over anyway eventually, because in the end his loyalty/subserviance to Mummy will win out I think.

Do not go through your life like this. There are solutions and they start with your DP. Now.

We haven’t really got to this stage yet. It’s quite a new realisation that something is going on. Only a few weeks ago I was trying to get him to fix it and speak to his mum.

I'm very glad to say that my dh had the strength to stand up to his mother and live his life on his terms. He was still cordial but her behaviour became so much worse after we had DC that we had to go LC and that sadly was the situation until she died. It was a dreadful shame because I would have loved having a good relationship with my in laws and tried everything to please my mil when we were first married but it took a while to realise that she wasn't antagonistic towards me personally, although she behaved that way, but anyone that she perceived as getting between her and her son. It was all so ridiculous because ultimately she ended up alienating her son as well! Talk about lack of insight! And she was a really intelligent woman too.

Don't worry about it, it's not your fault and it's an easy mistake to make, once you realise what 'feeds' them you can act accordingly, it's never too late to make changes, but if you accept that she won't change (because she doesn't want to) and your DH won't change (because it is too ingrained in him to try and please her to change now) it gives you scope to operate within those boundaries without letting her have that same power over you.

It really is awful, she wants you all vying for her approval and she has obviously become skilled at playing you all off against each other too, she knows what hurts and what buttons to push and no amount of reasoning will get them to change their behaviour because it works perfectly for them, I do feel sorry for people like that in a way, something in their past/upbringing has made them like that, and sometimes they can be genuine, but it's hard to know what's genuine and what's manipulation.

I'd personally get back in touch, and lay down some firm boundaries for yourself.. don't ever put yourself or your child in a position where she can disappoint you, don't seek her approval or set yourself up to fail, try and accept that she doesn't have to like you, in the same way that you don't have to like her, and try and realise it's not really you that she doesn't like, it's your position within the family and your ability to influence your DH that she resents, you only have to co-exist in the same little world as her.

One of the most important rules is, don't give her any ammo, maintain good relationships with others in the family separately from her if you can, and NEVER get drawn into conversations about people behind their backs.. it is skillfully used as ammo by her to push you down and it is used as currency by the others to get into her good graces, learn to play devils advocate at ALL times.

The more you focus on your own confidence, your own friends, family, hobbies, interests away from them and don't actively seek her or the families approval on any of it, the happier you will be, your DH is a bit of a lost cause unless he gets professional help to unpick years of this, but if you look at him as a long suffering victim in this, rather than an active participant it may be easier to tolerate, and you can set a good example for yourself and your child by choosing to not let anything she does affect you, it's hard but it can be done!

Should have mentioned that none of it was remotely easy though at the time and it caused my dh a lot of hurt. I didn't mean to make it sound simple. There was a lot of unnecessary drama and disputes along the way.

It's really strange to me and I don't know why it happens op. My mother was very sensible and loved us but understood that you raise your DC to live a life that is independent to you, and of course you do everything you can to support your adult dc but ultimately it's their life and sometimes they will do things and make decisions that you disagree with. And you still stand by and support them the best you can. I think that is one of the definitions of real love actually, that you meet people where they are at.

I don't understand why these narcissistic mothers behave the way they do. I suppose it's a hard transition for some from being "control central" to fitting in with everyone else and playing a secondary role. But surely you have some awareness of what will happen?

I'm sorry to say that I have one or two friends currently who are so very focused on their young adult sons and worship the very ground they walk on, speak of them in such effusively glowing terms, and sacrifice their own lives facilitating their son's lives to the exclusion of almost everything else, that I can predict issues ahead!

They must have gone through something in life where they have had no control or something I don’t know I know it’s not normal.

The more you can avoid her the better. Around her go grey rock. No response. No reaction. She will try to get a ride. Don’t let her. Expect your spouse will be left out of the will. Try to ignore her mean gossip.

Jesus it sounds like a right game to play. She’s assigned roles already and I don’t want to play.

So basically if I understand right she blames me for the feelings she feels about “loosing” her son (taking some of her supply). I’ve made her feel bad so now I’m bad. She can’t see that she is being unreasonable? It’s not my responsibility to make her feel good though. You don’t own people. Stupid thinking because she would have actually gained more. She needs to work on her own feelings and why she feels like this.

Spot on. Self awareness not the strong point of people like this though.
All you can do is damage limitation.
Grey rock - Google that... I'm sure pp have said (nrtft)
Now the scales have fallen from your eyes you can unsee it, but you'll need to be patient until your DH experiences a similar epiphany.
Don't attack, but some pertinent well placed questions might help him get there.

Yeah she feels like a really nasty person to me now. Quite sinister.

Not necessarily.. it's more about control I would say.

My DH has a theory, called the sit, stand, lie down theory and when I thought about it and used that analogy against certain relationships I can see that it seems to be true.

stand (top, favourite, lavished with attention and praise, warm)
sit (indifferent)
lie down (bottom, scapegoat, punished by withdrawing attention and praise, cold, ignoring)

If you take your MIL (for instance), the children and their partners (either individually or by association) all have certain 'positions' within the family to her at any one time, it's a very fluid dynamic and she can get the behaviour she wants out of them by manipulating them into certain positions, so for instance if one is pleasing her with the attention and consideration she requires, she will lavish them with praise, attention, favours etc, and openly criticise or gossip about other members of the family to them, making them feel special and better than the others. She will be actively indifferent to the others or purposely doing things as punishment for not trying hard enough to please her.. gushing about the top spot etc, it then prompts the bottom spot to try harder to work their way up the heirarchy, they have to try and win her affection basically, she won't give it freely if they aren't doing what she wants.

The way the dynamic works is someone has to be in each spot, you can't have more than one person in the top or bottom spot, if the top person displeases her, she will withdraw affection and praise and actively give it to someone else in the family, elevating them to top position and relegating the previous top position person to the bottom as punishment for displeasing her, they then do their upmost top get back to the top position because she treats them better there. The new top person tries their upmost to stay there, but ultimately they can't because she is only using that as punishment to make her preferred top spot child jealous.

It only works when everyone plays their roles, but they have been manipulated and trained from children to play these roles and don't realise they are doing it, there is little they can do about it, as if they opt out, at best they will sit in the middle/indifferent position, at worst they will be a scapegoat. You're finding it confusing because you obviously haven't been raised in this dynamic and are taking her indifference/ignoring you as her not liking you and taking it personally, when really she's trying to manipulate you to get the behaviour out of you that she wants, which is to worship the ground she walks on like her son does, and if you don't she's not interested in you and will badmouth you within the family to punish you for not conforming, she's even getting your DH to pass the message back to you so you know about it!

I may be off base, but this dynamic happens quite often in various degrees in families, work places, friend groups etc, more so when there are controlling people like your MIL involved. Most people are happy being in the top spot and unhappy when in the bottom spot, so there's a constantly shifting dynamic with can be quite toxic, but people play their roles because no one wants to be the bottom/outsider/scapegoat.

The only way you can combat it is to genuinely not care about conforming or care about the role that you are given, and don't get drawn into any negative / gossipy behaviour that her or the others can use against you to elevate their own position within the family, just be a nice decent person and concentrate on your own lives outside of her, there is literally nothing you can do to change their dynamic and you cannot make her accept you no matter what you do, as she's only interested in people she can control.

@sandyhappypeople makes sense, explains why it felt like she pays absolutely no attention to me at all. I even said to my partner I feel invisible in her presence. The other family will all get bought their favourite food and she’s get in their favourite drinks. I don’t get offered anything. I’m of no use to her. I’m happy about that, means I’m not controllable.