How can you tell the difference between being too needy and having the wrong people in your life?

[Fortheloveof83]

When is it a case of expecting too much and when is the case that those in your life aren’t capable of meeting your needs and your needs are healthy. I can’t tell anymore.

My mum is ND so is my partner and his mum. I feel lost currently.

@Watchkeys and what if the dismissive behaviour is because of the ND involved? I don’t know how to read them because I find the way that it makes them treat me not nice. My mum at least try’s her best to physically help but I know if I brought any emotion into its she’d run. The MIL does nothing emotionally or physically. When we are together I don’t exist she keeps me far off. Just stay away?

It doesn't matter why someone is treating you the way they do. It matters how you feel, and how much they respect how you feel. Of course there are situations when we may be obliged to spend time with people we don't feel great with, but not much, and it's far easier to do that if you are ensuring that your needs are being met by other means. Otherwise, why are you spending time with them? Because they want/need you to? Well, why do their wants/needs have priority over yours?

We are listening and we don’t judge.

This state of confusion and disbelief that you are experiencing is extremely common—people who have suffered abuse and neglect in childhood are very divorced and dissociated from their own feelings snd their own judgement because whatever was truly happening to them as a child, as they were learning, was denied, not acknowledged, or violently reacted to so the child gets used to ignoring and suppressing her own needs and intuitions and judgements. An abused child will always blame herself rather than her sbusers. That is a form of control in an uncontrollable environment. At least if its your fault its not gheirs. At least if its something you are doing maybe you can change yourself enough to get better treatment.

Giving up the belief that you caused this is terrifying because you then get to a space of anger snd resentment of people you love for the way they have hurt you.

No e of us can solve your problem or soothe the hurt because you are still very confused about what is happening snd why. You need someone to help you accept that its not you its them. And you aren’t ready.

Go to therapy and address your childhood of neglect and the way it has formed you. Look for someone who works with complex PTSD, childhood neglect, issues of abandonment.

I think it's also worth considering that if there's an idea of being 'too' something, there must be a 'correct' level of that thing that you're 'supposed' to be. Have a think about whether that 'supposed to' comes from. You have preferences about how you like to be treated; we all do, the same as we have preferences for anything else. Who is meant to tell us if our preferences are too strong? If our requirements are too great? Who is the judge of that, who gets to decide whether you like/want something 'too much', and why do they have that authority? Nothing you want is outlandish: you've said it yourself, you just want what other, ordinary people have. So who gets to decide for you that you are 'wrong' to want that, and why would you respect their opinion about it? After all, you don't want to break any laws, so anybody who objects to you can only be objecting on the strength of their own opinion, can't they?

Thanks guys it helped a bit with the confusion. There is something lacking in my brain it feels, my own internal voice or barometer. I’ve the voices of everyone else. It’s confusing as times.

Therapy can help with that.

I never really looked at people pleasing as a sense of control. I suppose when you are a child it’s not possible to think that your parents are wrong.

Everything you have shared here are perfectly normal experiences and thoughts that people bring to therapy to resolve. They are sad, difficult, and unpleasant but they are extremely common.

You can overcome these experiences and learn to ask for snd get what you need—and are entitled to! Love, affection, attunement, curiosity (hey, you look sad, anything I can do?) are all normal human interactions that you are entitled to expect in your intimate relations.

Please try some of the books I suggested snd try to find a therapist who can help you learn new skills to appreciate yourself, advocate for yourself, snd live the life you deserve.

@pikkumyy77 thanks and yes I will have a look for those books. I’ve heard of the Pete Walker books before. I though perhaps I was just on the spectrum like my mum but I am starting to think a lot of issues is the terrible bond we had. Its made a mess of my life and my choices.

I thought deep down perhaps I was just not likable because what’s the chance of having so many dismissive people in my life. Now I can see that perhaps I’ve come across as many of these people as everyone else only they clocked on and walked off without the distress that it’s caused me. Other people perhaps find it easier to say what’s your problem and I say what’s my problem what can I change. I feel very guilty about cutting people off. I’ve a few people in my life where I can see that the relationship is easy, I’ll concentrate on that because the others take way too much from me.

I’m happy to hear I’m normal and not some weird crazy alien freak who sticks out like a sore thumb. I’m fed up of being treated poorly, I’m way too old now, well 40 lol! Although I often feel like a child.

Glad to read you seem to be getting it OP.
@pikkumyy77 is correct, yours is a normal experience that many have.
But you are dealing with difficult people.
Those who walk away from difficult, unkind people have a very strong sense of self preservation.
Do the reading reccomended and start protecting yourself by drastically reducing contact.
40 is nothing, you have years left to enjoy some peace, if you insist upon it.
In my circle EVERYONE has at some point met people or had family that they decided contact with, did not bring them joy.
They never regretted stepping away or ruthlessly enforcing boundaries.
Start with your mother and MIL, share nothing with them and step away.
You have a choice here, the thing is to exercise it.

I’ve just been thinking this morning. I remember a comment his father had said to me when we met and has interjected many times over the past few years. I laughed and brushed it off but was actually hurt and wanted to tell him to F off. He’d said that I had manipulated his young son ( we are 7 years different) and used my womanly ways to trap him. It was said in this joke way. I’d not long suffered a miscarriage and I let it slip. They think I’m some emotionally manipulative women. They seem to have this picture of me in their head that is not true. I’ve been trying to persuade them otherwise and it’s not working. I don’t think I’m responsible for what’s in their head. I’m a good person who actually loves their son. He may find emotions hard but he tries and we laugh about it together. They can fuck off! lol!

I laughed and brushed it off but was actually hurt and wanted to tell him to F off

This is a really good example of your heart and your conditioning being at odds with each other. You felt uncomfortable, and you wanted to say it, but you silenced it and pretended to feel something more acceptable to others. Wanting to tell him to fuck off was because he'd crossed your boundary. You had all the right signals inside you, to tell you what to do that would be best for you. You always do: we all know what we are and aren't ok with. The thing to look at is why you didn't respond to how you felt.

@Watchkeys I suppose in the beginning I was being polite. Then it became if I can just show them how worth it I am they’ll come to accept me. Then I don’t really want to cause a scene. Eventually I cried on the toilet sobbing because maybe perhaps there’s just something wrong with me. Which led me to here. I now think that they either have a version of me that’s not actually true in their heads for whatever reason and projecting and nothing I do will change that or they doing something nasty on purpose. Either way I’ve come to the conclusion that they aren’t my people and I don’t actually like them and they aren’t good enough to
be In laws or grandparents let alone accept me. People can be weird.

I’ve always desperately wanted that close family unit as I’ve never had it and it looks like it feels so good. I overlooked and let slip a lot of “red flags” because once I break that emotional connection it will be gone forever. I’m that type of person, once I decided something then it’s over for good. I’m sad that I will never have that unit and that feeling and I didn’t want to accept it. I’ve got my own little family to put my attention into and that’s where I will focus.

Another interesting is “the gift of fear” because the author makes the point that lots of women are trained to ignore their instincts and they don’t push back when people insult or attack them. Especially women who come from cold or invalidating backgrounds may have had to turn off that little inner switch that says “f off!” But when you take the child’s form of safety (hide, collapse, comply, flatter) and use it as an adult you give away too much. You end up silenced and infantilized rather than empowered or even safe.

@pikkumyy77 I’ll tell you I really did feel like a child sat on the toilet crying because they won’t accept me. I had about 10 mins or so of utter despair and terrible pain because wtf is so bloody wrong with me, I just can’t seem to do or say anything right. I then had this kind of realisation that wtf am I doing, I’m 40 years old with 2 children and they are nasty dickheads bullying me like children. I think at that point I was done. The mum has started leaving nice comments on my social media pics since I left the family chats. I just think she is being fake now, she hasnt bothered in the past 4 years.

People may not like you, but they respect a person when they ruthlessly enforce boundaries, hence she is trying to play nice now you have withdrawn.
These are not good people.
They never will be.
Nurture your own inner child by protecting her and being kind to her.
Accept them for the god awful people they are and have fxxk all futher to do with them.
It really is freeing and feels great.
You owe NOONE a relationship with you.

Sounds like you have unempathetic people in your life :(

Your partner and his mum don’t sound very nice calling you annoying. (-They- sound rude and mean)

And anyone should expect sympathy from a partner after breaking their toe!

Everyone needs a bit of support with day to day life. Sometimes you just need to vent and have someone sympathise and listen.

It’s normal to feel overwhelmed at times caring for a toddler. It doesn’t make you needy. Sorry you’re not being treated how you should be by these people :( It’s not you, it’s them.

Sorry to hear about your toe as well. Ouch! Hope you're feeling better soon x

Know your value. Value yourself very highly. Don’t accept people bargaining you down and not respecting you. That is the way forward.

@Fortheloveof83

Do you realise how amazing your realisation was? That was a child sat crying, and finally, after more than 40 years, someone listened to her: you. I bet you felt stronger straight away didn't you?

When this happened to me, I was initially both wildly relieved, because I realised it wasn't me messing everything up, but it was down to me to fix it. Not by fixing myself or my personality or traits, but by redesigning my life. Massive, daunting job, but the best paid one we can all do.

That child who cried is the entity who, when listened to and respected, will become calm, and start to be able to state her needs clearly, and she will tell you where your boundaries are. She always has been, really: she's just been really frustrated and at the end of her tether for a really long time.

I think the answer to your op is that if you have the right people in your life, you won't feel needy. Getting into that position involves having the courage to reject people. Sticking around with people who make you feel shit has been your only mistake.

@Watchkeys yes I felt better, less shame but I just wanted to get out of the situation and run off. I keep getting stuck like this, trying to please my way out of negative feelings. I feel awful feeling crap all the time. I really dislike the feeling of rejection, very deep pain not just dislike. I keep visiting the people who make me feel like it and try and please them so that they make my bad feeling go away. Only thing is they dislike me for whatever reason that is and I know deep down I can’t change that by being nice. It’s that connection that the way they feel about me is connected to how I feel about myself. I’m not too sure where it comes from. Maybe I am ND like my own mum and I’ve struggled and developed these tools that just end up hurting me. Maybe it because I never had a mum to go to emotionally so I’ve never been shown any tools whatsoever. I’m not sure.

You don’t feel this way because you are ND. You feel this way because of a childhood of traumatic neglect. Read up on the work of the early theorists of attachment between mother and child: John Bowlby and (MarY?) Ainslee.

Babies and children have, basically, five methods of dealing with their need to get and hold care from their primary caregiver:Cuteness and pleasing qualities is the first, followed by crying (in babies).

As a child gets older it will try everything in turn to hold its mother’s attention and safety/love. Love is a proxy for safety.

Children can do what adults do facing a scary situation: fight, flight, freeze, fawn, attach and submit. You are in fawn (please) mode. You are also attaching and submitting when you argue with yourself that you should or must love these people, you should or must judge yourself by their standards.

@pikkumyy77 Ive no memory of my childhood pre 16. I couldn’t tell you how she treated me. If it’s the same as post that and now then she is very rejection sensitive and victim like. My mums dad was a drunk and my mums mum ran away and left her behind. She isn’t a nasty person but she is it seems disconnected.