Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 11

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

I was thinking of chengeing the thread Aspergers/ASD to ND, which I think might be more appropriate and inculsive, but I've left it as it is as I suspect many people find us by searching for Aspergers and/or ASD.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here

Thank you for explaining this. I keep thinking of something I read once which said that "Autism can sometimes present like narcissism" it's the intent that makes the difference.

I guess then that just as his masking is/was not intentional, he doesn't recognise that he is forcing us to mask to manage his unmasked behaviours? Any chance that there's a way to explain this that he would comprehend? Baring in mind he isn't aware of the volume of his own voice, let alone masking behaviours.

@SquirrelSoShiny last I remember you had some health issues but you weren’t talking about that stopping you being able to separate.
Has your health become worse? 😢😢

And YY to leave if you start getting ill.
Stress and trauma make most illnesses 100x worse. It’s not worth the gamble.

(And yes been there done that and got the tshirt)

If you want a chat specifically around chronic health, just send me a DM. Very happy to have a chat around that.

@MissionBiscuits i think that if you’re masking instead then there is something wrong anyway.
Neither if you should be masking.

Adaptations aka changing your behaviour in a way that’s within your own abilities and is a positive change is good. But masking means burying down feelings and needs to present in an ‘acceptable’ way (in that case you to your dh). It’s the best way to ill health imo. Both physical and/or psychological.

I think there are many of us here who understand exactly where you are emotionally and energy-wise. Even if no ND is involved, relationships can be hard work, and lack of proper teamwork is draining and do ultimately lead to you questioning the whole relationship.

Incompatibility due to being unable to find a way to effectively communicate is heartbreaking: it leads to so much loneliness! I’m a real chatterbox and go off on tangents, always laughing and being random, I guess, but ex loved that about me at first, but then would just stay fixed to his phone, or look at me blankly. No response at all. So I became quieter and more withdrawn, then he asked where the old boatwoman from last summer had disappeared to…. Sometimes, a relationship just doesn’t work. 😢

@MissionBiscuits I don’t think you can make anyone recognise that which they don’t openly acknowledge themselves. People change because they want to. It is I would think impossible to change someone who is unable to recognise the impact of their behaviour on others and on self. When you can’t take on the feelings of others then how can you judge and adapt your behaviour. For example my daughter can’t tell me how the other person she stole a lip gloss from would feel. Therefor taking it doesn’t include the calculation of the other persons feelings. It’s not stolen to upset the other person, it’s taken because she wanted it. A NT child may do it but eventually empathy develops and it’s included in an unconscious calculation. My own want is there but I don’t want to hurt my friend so I don’t, I’ll figure out a better way of fulfilling the need of having the lip balm etc. If the capacity of expanding onto others feelings isn’t there it’s very tough. It looks selfish but the part of brain needed to do this calculation hasn’t formed, or pathways aren’t developed (however ND appears).

Thank you. I wasn't really thinking of his changing, I wouldn't expect that, more for helping him to understand how living with him is harming me and DCs.
Going back to your earlier post, I do love the person under the mask, but I don't believe that person is capable of showing me love in the way that I need or of meeting other needs when it comes to companionship, emotional support and being a partner. I've long thought that he might be a much better parent if he didn't have to do it full time. It's not about masking, but not being burnt out by the overwhelm of it and being able to put that energy into enjoying their shared interests and time together.

@MissionBiscuits asking for ways to help him to understand how his behaviour effects you and the kids is asking him to get from somewhere a completely different brain. He may not be able to recognise the feeling or have ever felt the feeling you feel. If he’s never felt it how can he know how you feel. You can’t describe a feeling in words without any feeling as that’s not how feelings work. Some can’t connect a word to a bodily feelings they’ve no idea what sad for example feels like so how can they recognise in others or now how it looks from the outside or the inside. They also don’t have the tools to sooth a feeling they may even have so can’t offer that knowledge to you. If hugs don’t sooth your own self you don’t offer it. I offer hugs but I really dislike doing so. I only hope I hide my dislike well enough so the other person feels better. I come away from the encounter of hugging worse off.

@MissionBiscuits 🫂🫂

It’s really really shit not getting your needs met. Love yourself self enough and know yourself enough and stand firm with your needs, take hold of them and remove the ties that bind you to those who can’t meet them. Have deep trust in yourself that you will provide those needs whatever they may be and you will be strong enough to walk from that which doesn’t love and respect you, no matter who that may be or for whatever reason. You need to stand up for yourself and be your biggest cheer leader.

I think people sometimes feel entitled to have love and understanding. We aren’t entitled to any of these things. It’s brilliant if we get them but we can’t force or slightly twist or influence another or understand another a little more to give these. It’s a sad truth. I grew up to think if I could just get through, if I could just understand this person enough then I could get through to them and they’d see the error of their ways and I’d get what I wanted. It’s a form of co-dependancy. In my case it was my mum. She taught me to try over understand instead of just walking away.

I grew up to think if I could just get through, if I could just understand this person enough then I could get through to them and they’d see the error of their ways and I’d get what I wanted. It’s a form of co-dependancy.

Same here.
And yes it was my mum that taught me that too.
Along with being a doormat ‘because you know he had a hard childhood/SN/whatever, you have to understand/be kind’ and forget any boundaries

Exactly this Rainbow. And it was my Mum too. I had walked on eggshells almost my whole life before I met DH. I didn’t know it was possible to do otherwise.

@SpecialMangeTout yeah my ex used those excuses also. But we both had difficult childhoods in different ways only he spoke louder. I can’t tell you how pissed people get when you start watering yourself instead of other people. Lots of people disappear and get quite offended. I think when you a pleaser you attract lots of wrong people. My circle is small but is much more plentiful now.

It’s alien to think that it’s ok to have relationships where you get something out of it. It’s taken a while to think that it’s ok and I wobble a lot with feelings of selfishness. But when I parent my daughter I tell her relationships are a two way thing so why is that advice not ok for me. I don’t want her stuck in a relationship walking on eggshells, giving and giving till she empty.

Hi all, I hope nobody minds me jumping back on here, I posted regularly on these threads under another user name but can't get back in on that one.

I was married to someone with Asperger's but we have been divorced a few years now. I don't know where to turn at the moment, as lately I'm finding myself so triggered by my children's behaviour, it's become just like living with ex husband again. I have been through lots of counselling in the past due to his behaviour, and had counselling right through the divorce, and really can't afford any more right now. I just want to vent here and if anyone has any advice it will be great fully received!

Basically I left my husband years ago, he has Aspergers and after our dc were born he just couldn't cope and pretty much opted out of family life. Both the children are diagnosed ASD as well, both classed as high functioning, both primary age. My children at times can be wonderfully empathetic, kind and so loving. At other times they can be so mean and hurtful, sometimes it is deliberate to either wind me or each other up, as siblings can do, and sometimes it's totally accidental as they can be blunt, can't read the room and don't understand white lies and subtlety, very much live in the black and white which we've been working on a lot.

At the moment they are doing what their dad used to do to me constantly - what in other circles would be termed as gaslighting and DARVO. One of my counsellors explained that although my ex may well not mean to be abusive,(which I never knew one way or another - was it him being abusive and repeating the abuse he'd witnessed as a child, or was it misguided communication in part due to his ADD/ASD) but actually being in a relationship such as I was, it ultimately was emotional abuse - intentional or not. The counsellors I've worked with have all been familiar or experts in working with ASD. I trust them on this, though at times it is hard to admit to myself that I was in an emotionally abusive relationship. The scars are still there but I'm still doing the work to try to heal.

The children are now doing similar to him sadly and it triggers the old feelings and memories daily. I don't think it's learned behaviour, as they were quite young and don't remember much about me and their dad being together. It's very similar to what I lived through with him in the final years of our marriage. For example they will swear I said X (but it's say actually just what they wanted to hear.) Or if they've done Y, they'll deny and I know 100% it happened. If Z did happen or was said, and I can prove it in some way, well then they just plain don't remember it and so it doesn't matter. At times it feels like I'm losing my mind and always second guessing myself, feeling like I used to feel with ex - do I need cameras and evidence to play back to them to prove things? Why is everything I say being picked apart and questioned? Why are they trying to trip me up? Why are they lying? I know they don't mean to do it, logically I know they love me, rationally I know they are wired differently to me. I am patient. I am kind. I am loving. It's exhausting though. I feel drained and on edge. Which is how I used to feel multiple times daily for years with my ex. I do everything for them (and dad does very little) which I know they will appreciate one day, but right now it is feeling so relentless and I am continually ground down and hurt by them.

Sorry for this long ramble.

Yep. This in buckets @SquirrelSoShiny 🫂

I don’t think it is learned behaviour. I think some ASD people genuinely have a real issue with blurring what they think and what they did/said. DP will swear blind he said something. I KNOW he didn’t. But he seems to genuinely think he did. And he gets angry that I dispute it. He can’t envisage a scenario where his version isn’t the absolute truth. I have taken to recording him many times. And I play it back to him: see? You simply didn’t say that. And he just shrugs and says “ok fine, so what!” And I’m like aaaaarrghhhj!!! You tried to make out I wasn’t listening / didn’t hear you / ignored you / misunderstood you…. The “fault” is always mine. There isnt a possibility that he might have got it wrong. But I think the fixation with not being at fault and the black and white thinking plus a blurring of what is real and what is just thought means these situations are very difficult for the other partner. Or parent in your case. I don’t have an answer. Record everything they say isn’t possible (though it has definitely occurred to me!) or gently extract yourself “well, I don’t agree but there isn’t to be gained by discussing this further” (usually DP will have to say something else about me being wrong to ensure he has the last word. Which I try to let go).

Thanks for your comments @BustyLaRoux I'm very familiar with the 'last word' here! Thats what I meant by I'm patient. I always disengage gently but they just will not let anything go. Each of them has to have the final word no matter how things are escalating. Again, like their dad. It's so very tiring. And on days like today, I fear this relentlessness just stretching on forever. I usually try to keep the children separated and doing their own individual things to keep the peace, which is sad in and of itself, as very rarely can we just enjoy a family day or even an hour!

I’m really struggling with my kids at the moment too Krumpets, if that’s any help to have a bit of solidarity 💐. My DS special interest is taking over family life and managing his moods is a full time occupation. Little DS is learning to yell now as well. I’m hoping they just need a break from school. The thought of a whole summer like this… 😨

Sorry to hear this @Krumpets!

I can offer no advice, but am sending you thoughts and strength 💪

Raising ND children is so incredibly hard. I’m having trouble with my eldest. I can’t ever seem to reach her, her way of thinking is very different and very challenging.

Sorry to hear you're having such a tough time with them. What I would say is that I think we can get too used to assuming every difficult behaviour is a part of their ND, but all kids go through difficult phases and once they hit the tween years in particular they all start to think they know everything. It could just be a typical phase or learned behaviour from their peers. Try not to cut them too much slack by assuming it's part of their ASD or that you can't do anything to change it because you couldn't with their dad. Their brains aren't hard-wired yet and nurture can make a big difference.
I don't know if that's of any help at all, but I do think we can fall into the trap of assuming everything our ND kids do is not 'typical' and get overly stressed about it.

Sorry @Krumpets I just reread that and realised it sounds really dismissive and shitty. I should have taken into account the fact that their autistic brains can still make it difficult to manage their behaviour and parent them and acknowledged that it is still harder and much more exhausting. I meant that the source of the behaviours could be a facet of their natural development as humans, rather than autism-specific. Doesn't make it any easier though. Sorry again.

Thank you again @Rainbow03. Based on your explanation I didn't think there was a way to help him understand, I was just holding on to the last grain of hope that there was something I couldn't think of. He's only just starting to accept his brain is different, he has very little self-awareness and he's desperate to hold on to the life he knows. Before I joined this thread and started to connect the dots, I'd already reached the conclusion that there was no way to get him to accept my decision. What I've learned here helps me to understand him a little more, but it's of no practical use. It won't change the outcome, but at least I know for sure now that there's nothing I can do to make this less awful for anyone. I still need to leave, his reaction will be his reaction and I just have to hope that me and DCs get through it in one piece.

Honestly though Rainbow, what you share is invaluable. I can never thank you enough for your patience and willingness to share. Given your feelings about hugging, I'm going to sign this off with a 👍