Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 11

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

I was thinking of chengeing the thread Aspergers/ASD to ND, which I think might be more appropriate and inculsive, but I've left it as it is as I suspect many people find us by searching for Aspergers and/or ASD.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

The old thread is here

Thanks @Eclipseboatwoman48 I’m trying hard. But what I’m reading here, while so helpful, is showing me the extent of it.

so, the hoarding is ‘a thing’ too? The inability to part with shit. ‘My precioussss’. I used to do the Gollum thing as a joke but now it doesn’t seem at all funny.

Yep, I understand hoarding can be a thing! My ex didn’t exactly hoard, but could see use in the most ridiculous things so insisted on hanging onto them, but then never, ever used them. Purchased lots of gadgets for ‘projects’ that never got off the ground, but was obviously still a worthwhile item to spend his money on. Fair enough, it was his money, but he’d then accuse me of frittering my money away if I treated myself to one Costa coffee in a month…. I work full-time hours over four days, with significant hours at home: I think I deserve the odd £4/5 on a nice coffee! He had ADHD as well as autism, though, so not sure if some of that was more ADHD than ASD.
What do you find is the hardest element of living with him?

Yep same here, my view is that it comes under the ‘doesn’t like change’ category

Which is different to pretending to have a completely different persona. And I think masking is that. It’s making yourself look like what you think others will appreciate and expect. Not the real you. Not toning down some aspects of you.

^ I agree. It's like my husband saying I love you because "that's what you say". Of course it is obvious when it's rote/learnt response and not driven by the emotion. Or asking "how are you?" because that's what he knows you are supposed to ask for the other person to believe you are interested even if you are not. But to me masking seems like doing this stage management/performing in every single situation....until you learn "the rules" then can do it more automatically or choose not to anymore.

Whilst I definitely have different hats it's all authentically me, just with more or less of certain aspects of me shining through.

@Eclipseboatwoman48 The hardest thing is the lack of connection. Our house is so silent because small talk is impossible. He can moan about people or things. But that lighthearted ‘Oh I saw so and so earlier and they were saying’ just doesn’t exist here. It’s pretty tragic and actually really upsets me if I think about.

Yep, the lack of connection, lack of natural banter, between two people who are supposed to be life partners is heartbreaking. My ex could talk about his work for hours, and would ask me about my day, but unless he was talking about something he was personally involved in, it all felt so mechanical. I’ve had easier chat with people I’ve known a matter of weeks. I continually tried so hard to raise topics of interests for discussion but unless he’d raised the topic, we got nowhere. Lack of emotional connection was a real problem, too. I felt so, so lonely, which triggered painful memories and emotions from my marriage, and I’m now wondering if ex husband has ASD as well.
Ultimately, it takes two to build a rapport and maintain a good, strong connection, worthy of a lifetime commitment.

It takes two people who need to be willing and understanding and accommodating of each others limitations. Not one person who is unable and another person who can’t really take in the full nature of the limitations of this disability. It’s never going to work and I’m sorry but if emotional connection is important to you (which is completely normal and valid) these aren’t the right relationships or environments for you. You aren’t going to get your needs met from these relationships however much venting.

Spot on @Simplefoke, which is why I have mentally, physically and almost every other way removed myself from my relationship. I’m only here for the kids. If it wasn’t for them I wouldn’t be here. And when I say here I mean under the same roof, that’s it

Perhaps a good way to look at it is to decide whether you love the mask or the ND person underneath. Because the mask is the person they think you want, it’s not who they really are so won’t be able to keep it up. Who they really are could be the person sat quietly in the corner with no small talk or the argumentative one, or the rejected one or the one who simply doesn’t care about you. Under my mask is someone very vulnerable. My first husband didn’t have time for this so I masked. This partner treats me better so I feel less need to mask.

In my case not only was H masking, but we were already living within an abusive religious system which was set up to keep me beholden to him. My wedding vows actually included the word 'submit' 😖, the abuse was taught and sanctioned. Shortly after we married I discovered that he didn't actually believe in the parts that made this set up acceptable from my perspective (the whole 'god guides him so I can trust his judgement' aspect), and while he claims he never expected me to follow the 'rules' I was taught, he has also said he panicked when I denounced the faith because I 'changed the rules'. No one in my family properly believes me because he masks with them, only barely at times, but enough that they don't believe it's 'that bad'. While autism might well be the reason behind many of his behaviours and he acknowledges he is (probably) autistic, it's just another excuse not to put in the work to make changes. He can't change his brain so I must change to accommodate him. That's where it becomes abusive. Since I was diagnosed with ADHD I have done loads of research and made changes to try to help myself, I've had therapy and I take medication. Obviously there's no specific medication for autism, but building self-awareness and making lifestyle changes to manage triggers and overwhelm can make a huge difference. Choosing not to embrace these things, not to even try and just continue expecting others to meet your needs while you use it as yet another excuse not to meet theirs is a conscious choice to abuse them, even more so when they tell you what they're experiencing and you carry on regardless. I don't believe H is a bad person, he does care about people and certainly has a lot of good intentions, but the old saying 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' very much sums up our marriage for me. My journey to this point started when I began to entertain the thought that, just maybe, I wasn't the whole problem. My belief is that, at best I was sold a false idea of who he was and at worst I was all but trafficked into this marriage. There's a lot more to the story, but this post is already too long.
While he refuses to accept that our marriage is over, I am going to say it's his fault.

To be fair, I think we all know this. Unfortunately it's not always that easy to remove yourself from the relationship. When I have tried in the past, I've needed to access support and the look of utter confusion on people's faces when you tell them "I've told him it's over, I've filed for divorce, but he just refuses to accept it and I can't afford to physically leave" says it all, because what can you do with that? Now I can afford to physically leave, but I have no idea how he'll respond or when in the process is the best time to tell him. I can envisage every scenario from total shutdown and me just walking out with the kids, to him taking the kids and running off to his mum's complete with segues into physical harm and burning the house down. And what about afterwards? Will we be able to build a healthy co-parenting dynamic or will he fuck off entirely? Previously he has both threatened to take the kids and then said he would go to his mum's place in France if he moved out. I like novelty as much as the next ADHDer, but this feels more like Russian roulette with a huge risk of collateral damage.

If you saw the state of my house! Honestly I'm more thrilled by the prospect of not living with his shit than of not living with him. To begin with I thought it was just him being sentimental, combined with a bit of general messiness. It was only when we had to empty the loft at first his house that I began to realise that most of it is just a case of 'can't be arsed to go through it and throw it away'. There are boxes in my house which have moved from his mum's, to his first house, to my sister's loft, to our last house, to our current house without ever being opened. That's over 20 years. He hasn't looked at it for half of his life. Fuck knows what's in there!

Before I even knew I had ADHD I worked out that my clutter threshold was low and became good at getting rid of stuff. I simply cannot manage the amount of stuff he has, let alone with the kids as well. This is a massive stressor for me.

Does anyone else's partner seem to have an aversion to clear surfaces? I love a clear surface, tidy house tidy mind and all that, but the minute he goes near it, something will appear on it, it's like he literally can't cope with it. Maybe it's a change thing?

This is so true. It's very difficult when they won't remove the mask until they've got you hooked in. While I empathise with the fear of vulnerability, I do feel it is inherently dishonest, especially if you trap a person into a house/marriage/kids commitment before you drop that mask. It is, unfortunately, a very self-focused approach and unlikely to end well. I could have a more sympathy for it if H did not expect our children to mask for his comfort.

There is a difference between those who have personality disorders and those who are ND, although some present with both. People with ND aren’t inherently try to trap anyone. There isn’t a purposeful non removing of a mask, there isn’t really the thought out intent that this involves. I may be wrong but I think those with personality disorders are using behaviours in a much more manipulative way. ND is much more towards mis communication and mis understanding and struggles than it is manipulating. Although I get on the outside it feels the same.

@MissionBiscuits "Does anyone else's partner seem to have an aversion to clear surfaces? I love a clear surface, tidy house tidy mind and all that, but the minute he goes near it, something will appear on it, it's like he literally can't cope with it. Maybe it's a change thing?"

My DH is like this. Drives me potty! And his stuff spreads everywhere and I feel like I can't find any space to do anything. Also never puts anything back in the same place twice and gets arsey if I suggest that might be a good idea, "who says it goes there?" like I am trying to control him. 🙄I don't care where things go, so long as I know where it is! I actually dreamt last night that he had put all the teaspoons in with the big spoons and moved the knives and forks out of the cutlery drawer to somewhere else altogether - so it's clearly getting to me 😂

On the plus side, my first post on here was stressing how we were going to cope after my surgery, which actually happened about a month ago, and I am pleased to say that we have muddled through OK. He has managed to do what I have needed him to, so long as I tell him what that is. The only thing that has upset me a bit is his lack of thought for my elderly parents, who live nearby and I usually do a lot for, which I can't at the moment. He actively resists any suggestion of helping them, by making some sort of lame excuse about why he can't. I sort of understand him not wanting to get sucked into doing everything I usually do (which is a lot), but find his lack of care for them (we've been together 25 years and they have always been pleasant to him) and recognition of their vulnerability hurtful. But it is who he is, and I knew that.

@NDornotND so pleased to hear your surgery went well 💐.

@MissionBiscuits my heart absolutely breaks for you. I’m from a somewhat religious background and I can see absolutely how religion, patriarchy and ND/masking would combine to create an intolerable situation where you’re totally isolated. Just sending a big massive hug, basically.

DH and I continue to talk and write. We are making real progress at uncovering the hurts cropping up around DH breakdowns. (We have both smoothed over these in moments of crisis to try desperately to keep afloat.) They feel a bit like unexploded emotional bombs and exposing them without anyone getting too hurt is pretty delicate. But it’s such a massive relief to put them all on the table, finally.

Yes!!! I also have ADHD and I need clutter free and tidy to feel at peace mentally. Mess makes me feel agitated and oppressed.

We have an office. I have a fairly small desk and I stay confined to that. We could easily fit another desk in the room but the rest of the room is taken up with huge amounts of his hobby stuff. Not one hobby, but several hobbies. Boxes of stuff in teetering towers around me. Fishing rods stacked around in corners. All the shelves taken up with his hobby books and more boxes of stuff. So he cannot fit a desk in there. He has to work at the kitchen table. So that is covered in his stuff and papers. My lovely wingback chair where I like to sit is stacked with more papers (except it isn’t now as he scooped them all up the other day and threw them at the fireplace in a fit of rage which I posted about!). The hearth is again covered in more piles of papers and stuff. I hate it. Every now and then I pass comment about the piles of stuff in the kitchen and he’ll say “well you get the office and I have to work somewhere!” trying to pass the “blame” onto me. But as I’ve said, he could easily fit in the office. I only use a small corner of it. There would be plenty of room but he’s taken over the rest of the room with all his hobby stuff!

He never puts anything away! If he gets something out of a cupboard, uses it for a bit, then returns it, he won’t actually put in back in the cupboard. He will put it in front of the cupboard. So his tools are usually on the floor in front of the tool cupboard. I ask “why are these here and not in the cupboard?” And he says “oh I might need to use them again”. But it isn’t true. It’s an excuse to avoid him havjng to put them away. If he takes out a shirt and then decides not to wear it, he won’t put it back on the hangar. He’ll shove it in the wardrobe and drape it over the hanging rail. So I open the wardrobe and there’s a ton of shirts scrunched up over the rail and loads of empty hangars! If he uses an oven dish he then “leaves it to soak”, which would be fair enough except he will leave it for four days like that! It just all task avoidance. Everything in our house is like this. He picks up shit from skips, most of which isn’t usable (although we have got a very nice expensive saucepan which he salvaged so I give him his dues there!) I despair!!!!! I long for my own house which is clutterfree and hygienic!

I agree. I don’t think he deliberately trapped me and then purposefully removed his mask. He just relaxed and it started to come off more and more. The “real him” was abusive and awful to be with, but it wasn’t intentional and he has worked hard to change the behaviours which are like that. I’m not saying he’s eradicated them. But things like the cold shouldering and silent treatment happen rarely now. And I also understand that when he does do that it isn’t meant to be a punishment (though it feels that way), he is actually shutting down and avoiding talking about something he is upset about as he can’t handle it. He knows I find it upsetting so I give him space and he usually thaws pretty quickly now. An hour maybe. Half a day at most (he used to cold shoulder me for 2 or 3 days and it was unbearable and cruel). Things like this. He is happier and has a better understanding of being in a relationship. It’s taken quite a lot of work and continues to. I dread to think what he must have been like as a partner to his ex. Whilst I don’t like the woman (a whole other thread!) I do feel sympathy for her. I know they didn’t manage each other well at all. It must have been really hard for her.

I hear you! Although he’s a step ahead of mine who just leaves everything where he’s used it. I don’t think I’ll ever recover from the humiliation of having a health visitor ask me “doesn’t your husband care about your children’s safety?” 🙈

@MissionBiscuits @NDornotND "clear surfaces". It drives me up the wall, and it's not really just a quirk as it effects our quality of life. Ive got enough clutter in my ADHD brain without being physically surrounded by it. DW did say recently that there's no point having too many cupboards because then she forgets that things exist. She is also dreadful for collecting and keeping useless junk and tat (piled up on every surface).

I just need a space to say I am having a really difficult day for the pettiest of reasons and I just need to say it is really fucking hard being married to my autistic husband. REALLY FUCKING HARD.

I'm trapped now due to health I literally don't have the energy or cognition to divorce him. He would make my life hell (lots of covert narcissism in there too). My advice if you're wavering is get out now while you still can. Sorry to plop back in on the thread like a boulder off a cliff but I've been trying so hard to be positive. I'm out of energy today.

Reading back a few posts. I'm so sorry so many of you are finding it tough. Constantly amazed by how many of us have ADHD and are drawn like moths to flames to autistic partners. It can be such a catastrophically unhappy pairing once the mask is dropped by the autistic partner.

Sorry for the hard day. We get it on here and have utmost sympathy for you.

Yes I fully agree there.

And YY to the fact that if your dh doesn’t small talk and you love communication, then maybe you’re not just it compatible.
I think it’s important to highlight because otherwise it’s easy to fall into the shame dance, aka

it didn’t work because he just can’t hold a conversation. It’s not normal!

or the opposite

I can’t possibly leave because <insert one trait I’m struggling with> is down to autism agd how can I leave him because of his disability.

If a cupboard door is not in the way when open, H will invariably leave it open. In our last house it was always the mug/glass cupboard, so I put up open shelving for the ones we used daily, helped my stress levels immensely!

He has no visual or auditory memory, so everything is 'out of sight/hearing, out of mind', including me and the kids apparently.