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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How can I be happy that my friend is getting married?

80 replies

Worrieditsamistake · 19/05/2024 10:19

NC for this because it involves my good friend and I wouldn't want it to be outing.

I have a very, very old friend. My best friend. She has had some really shitty relationships over the years. Never really had a healthy LTR (so no children) and also quite a lot of financial stress and uncertainty.

Several years ago she met a really, really lovely guy and they have a truly wonderful relationship. They are made for each other and I am so happy for her. They don't live together - he's got young adult/teen sons from a previous relationship (ended long before) and so he's staying local to them until the youngest is older. No possibility of children together due to age. All good.

Yesterday my friend called me. He proposed to her and she said yes. It wasn't at all what she was expecting but she is over the moon, they both are. My first reaction was to be absolutely thrilled for them.

But.

After years of struggling my friend has managed buy a small home for herself which she owns outright. She doesn't have much pension to speak of and isn't young enough or earning well enough to change that significantly. This house is her entire security and is SO important to her.

Her fiancé is a genuinely lovely guy (I am certain he is one of the good ones) but he is not a high earner at all and has absolutely NO assets whatsoever. I think the longer term plan is that he will move in with my friend in a few years once he feels able to move away from his son.

Neither of them are especially financially savvy (that's not really the right way of saying it but hopefully yuu know what I mean) and I don't think either of them will have considered the legal implications of marriage. I'm really concerned that my friend is going to be jeopardising her security. If he moves in, my understanding is that her house will become the marital home and that it would almost certainly become a marital asset. He earns less than she does, has even less savings, and also has dependants and so it's possible he would even be awarded more than a half share in the event of divorce.

Also my friend has several nieces/nephews that she is close to and she has mentioned in the past that her estate will pass to them. This obviously wouldn't happen if they marry, and her estate would ultimately pass to her partner's children (or even a future wife, if he remarried) rather than her own family if she were to die first. This isn't such an issue compared to the risk to her security, but I still don't think it's what she'd want.

The issue is I don't think either of them have considered any of this and I am really worried for my friend. In the cold light of day marriage is of absolutely ZERO benefit to my friend and had a big upside for her fiancé.

I'm certain he has no idea of this and his motivations are simply that he loves her and wants to spend his life with her. But years on mumsnet makes me see it quite differently and I'm even finding myself feeling angry with him for asking her to risk her security, which I know is unfair.

So to get to the point, I guess I have two questions/problems. The first is if I should gently probe my friend to see if she understands the legal implications of marriage. I've helped her a lot in the past with financial advice and so this wouldn't be as put of place as it might sound. So long as she is fully informed then I'm happy if she's happy.

The second problem is how to deal with my low level resentment at her fiancé. Its made me look at him a bit differently which I KNOW is unreasonable. But my friend has had so much shit to deal with over the years and FINALLY has security and he is (albeit unknowingly) asking her to give that up for him.

OP posts:
okyaya · 19/05/2024 10:22

Non of your business, you say he's a good guy so why are you speculating about his intentions and not being good enough cos he doesn't earn much. Bit weird of you to be so concerned.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 19/05/2024 10:26

okyaya · 19/05/2024 10:22

Non of your business, you say he's a good guy so why are you speculating about his intentions and not being good enough cos he doesn't earn much. Bit weird of you to be so concerned.

Agreed
OP long thread but have you told friend?
OP, please leave them to it after that as IMO, your friend wont be too happy if they think you are continuing to feel like this

Possibly suggest friend speaks to a solicitor before marriage re property etc - but thread carefully and see if you are able to say that. Other than that, let them be happy

TinyYellow · 19/05/2024 10:26

You resent her fiancé because he wants to marry the woman he loves? That is entirely your problem, he has done nothing wrong.

A good friend in your position minds their own business while being supportive, and then if it goes wrong in future, you step in to help then.

Worrieditsamistake · 19/05/2024 10:32

okyaya · 19/05/2024 10:22

Non of your business, you say he's a good guy so why are you speculating about his intentions and not being good enough cos he doesn't earn much. Bit weird of you to be so concerned.

I'm not speculating about his intentions, I've been clear about that. I'm worried about the very real risk my friend is unknowing taking with her financial security. And I'm also struggling a bit with my own feelings about that, but again, I've been clear that I know this is unreasonable.

OP posts:
InheritedClock · 19/05/2024 10:36

I actually don’t think you’d be unreasonable to talk to her, tactfully, at a carefully-judged later moment, highlighting the house as marital asset and inheritance issues. Obviously, don’t rain on her parade right now, and conceal your feelings about her fiancé.

Enko · 19/05/2024 10:37

Don't gently ask be upfront.

Friend I'm thrilled for you and so happy you have found a great guy. I really like X and I think you are a great pair. So the following will sound mean but as your friend I feel I need to ask this. Have the pair of you discussed finances and how that will work? I'm concerned about your house you worked hard for this. Would you consider seeing a solicitor to find out ways to ensure you don't loose your financial security? Again I think fiance is great but my concern is about you.

rainbowstardrops · 19/05/2024 10:38

I don't think it's any of your business but you wouldn't be unreasonable to casually drop into the conversation about her house in case she hasn't considered that. I really don't know why you've changed your opinion on her partner. They're in love with each other and he's proposed. Hardly radical! Are you jealous?

PhuckyNell · 19/05/2024 10:40

Why don't you say oh if he's moving in don't forget to get your will sorted, I read on mumsnet the other day some woman was worried about her friend getting shafted if they divorced

lol

Icequeen01 · 19/05/2024 10:46

I don't feel you are being unreasonable at all Op. I think it's great that you are looking out for your friend when I expect this is the last thing on her mind. If she was my best friend I would certainly gently raise it as so many women just don't realise the implications.

Worrieditsamistake · 19/05/2024 10:49

Enko · 19/05/2024 10:37

Don't gently ask be upfront.

Friend I'm thrilled for you and so happy you have found a great guy. I really like X and I think you are a great pair. So the following will sound mean but as your friend I feel I need to ask this. Have the pair of you discussed finances and how that will work? I'm concerned about your house you worked hard for this. Would you consider seeing a solicitor to find out ways to ensure you don't loose your financial security? Again I think fiance is great but my concern is about you.

This is exactly the conversation I'd like to have, I think, thank you. I wonder if by being open and upfront and not tiptoeing around the subject it's actually less likely to be misinterpreted?

OP posts:
bfsham · 19/05/2024 10:53

Yes definitely speak to her at a well-judged time about sleepwalking into sideways disinheritance.

Worrieditsamistake · 19/05/2024 10:57

rainbowstardrops · 19/05/2024 10:38

I don't think it's any of your business but you wouldn't be unreasonable to casually drop into the conversation about her house in case she hasn't considered that. I really don't know why you've changed your opinion on her partner. They're in love with each other and he's proposed. Hardly radical! Are you jealous?

Not jealous, no, although I understand why you'd ask that. I genuinely do want her to be happy.

I don't think I've explained myself well about my feelings about the fiancé. I honestly think he is the best thing that has ever happened to her and my feelings about that haven't changed. It's more frustration, thinking "Argh, why didn't you think about what this means for my lovely friend!" But he is so generous and easy going that he either won't have thought about it at all, or will have (without being in the least bit dishonest with himself) immediately dismissed it because he wouldn't dream of demanding anything from my friend financially if the relationship where to go wrong.

Whearas I am a naturally cautious person and also somewhat jaded by years of reading endless stories on MN about lovely men who ended up being anything but.

OP posts:
Worrieditsamistake · 19/05/2024 11:02

To add - I've done a bit of reading and although IANAL I actually don't think there is any way for her to protect her house if they do get married and he does move in.

The only options would be to not legally marry (I guess have some kind of commitment ceremony instead?) or for them to continue living apart (which wouldn't guarantee he wouldn't have a claim, but it would make it less likely).

OP posts:
BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 19/05/2024 11:03

How long since she bought the house? How long till his dc are adults? When do they plan on marrying?

Are you 100% sure his motives are innocent?

Worrieditsamistake · 19/05/2024 11:06

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 19/05/2024 11:03

How long since she bought the house? How long till his dc are adults? When do they plan on marrying?

Are you 100% sure his motives are innocent?

I don't think they are in a rush to get married. I don't really want to say any more about the specifics than I already have, it feels like sharing too much information that isn't mine to share. Hope you understand.

But yes I am as certain as it's possible to be about anyone that his motives are innocent.

OP posts:
whatwouldAnnaDelveydo · 19/05/2024 11:12

I would love to have a friend looking after me like you're doing for your friend. Talk to her, in a factual way, like a pp has suggested.

ManagedMove · 19/05/2024 11:13

okyaya · 19/05/2024 10:22

Non of your business, you say he's a good guy so why are you speculating about his intentions and not being good enough cos he doesn't earn much. Bit weird of you to be so concerned.

This

Tumbler2121 · 19/05/2024 11:14

There seems to be some confusion here about inheritance and what would happen in divorce.

If she loves him and is married to him she would probably wish her house and any other assets to go to him.

If they get divorced, yes, this is completely different. If they live together the house becomes the marital home. Or even if they don't it's a marital asset, but length of marriage can make a big difference.

All sorts of different outcomes, he could be a good bloke and just walk away, or he could fight.

Maybe concentrate on the one that could ruin her life, don't worry about the afterlife!

InheritedClock · 19/05/2024 11:15

Worrieditsamistake · 19/05/2024 10:49

This is exactly the conversation I'd like to have, I think, thank you. I wonder if by being open and upfront and not tiptoeing around the subject it's actually less likely to be misinterpreted?

I’d certainly be upfront and couch it in terms of her having asked financial advice from you before, and that you’re aware of how hard she’s worked for her house. Definitely no hinting. If you know anything about the timeline (how long is it likely to be before they marry?), you can also leave it a little bit, so you’re not obviously raining on her engagement happiness right now.

Ultimately, you cant determine how she will take your warning, and how she will feel about you afterwards, but I think as a friend you owe it to her to make her aware. Though that’s up to you, obviously — if you knew for sure she’d be violently offended and think the worse of you for it, would you still want to advise her?

I was the only one flagging a termination to a friend as a possibility many years ago, when she got pregnant on a gap year with no means of support, and no way of contacting the man, who was a casual hookup on another continent by the time she realised. She was furious at the time, but we’re still friends, and she has acknowledged years later that I was right, and she should have considered terminating.

Sleepismyfavourite · 19/05/2024 11:17

I don’t know, maybe I’m being a bit unfair but you seem quite over involved OP. I think it’s natural to worry about a friend & whether they are making the right decision but you seem to be taking it to another level. You seem to be taking a lot of responsibility for your friend here & her decisions & then projecting your feelings on to her fiancé. I would maybe take a bit of a step back.

Runningupthecurtains · 19/05/2024 11:22

She could rent out her house and they could cohabit in a property they rent/buy together.

She could be thrilled to have someone she loves and has chosen to be with to leave her assets to, rather than feeling she has to pass them on to nieces/nephews.

He could die first and she would benefit from whatever assets, life insurance, pension etc he has that his children would otherwise have benefit from so he is taking a risk too.

He could inherit money, win the lottery etc.and she would benefit from that as his wife.

Would you have the same concerns for him if he had a property and she didn't?
It seems that men who don't want to marry to 'protect' their assets are evil but women who do the same are sensible.
I'm all for protecting yourself and remaining financially independent but the same should apply to everyone not 'the what's his is theirs and what's hers is hers' that seems to prevail on MN.
Ultimately unless only people with identical financial situations marry someone has to take a keep of faith.

AlltheFs · 19/05/2024 11:24

I married my husband when I was the one with all the assets.
You can take steps to protect yourself to an extent, we have a prenup which although could be challenged probably would stand up and a property that is not the marital home (we have another that is) is still in my name and DH has declared no interest in.

I think it is fine to raise it gently but ultimately it is none of your business. I love being married and would do it again. I went in to it with full awareness though.

PitterPatter3 · 19/05/2024 11:32

I don’t think you are BU at all. You sound like you genuinely have her best interests at heart.

My father advised me not to get married at all due to similar considerations. As a direct relative he was obviously much more invested in the situation but his advice made a lot of sense and I took it.

It’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of a wedding whilst losing sight of the fact that, whilst marriage brings important security for many women, this is no longer the case for all women in all circumstances.

Blondeshavemorefun · 19/05/2024 11:34

You can get a co habitation agreement

I had one of those

House was mine before met now dh

He signed to agree was all mine and if split up he wouldn't try and take it

Even said in document to take legal advice. Which he did and lawyer said don't sign it 😂 which dh ignored and signed

Dh gets life rights to live in house if I die but the house goes to our daughter as was mine before we met - if went to dh then wouid be split between his other kids and they all have their own mums /possibly assets

Eastie77Returns · 19/05/2024 11:39

Why would he definitely get her assists? She can specify in her will that she wants her niece and nephew to get her house or any other asset? Or am I misunderstanding how the law works?

My mum died last year and left the share of the house she owned with my dad to me and my sibling. So spouses do not automatically inherit their deceased spouse’s assets - including the family home.

Why don’t you just casually say “Oh now you are getting married don’t forget to update your will because I know you wanted to leave Jane and John some of your estate”

You could also mention a will to her fiancé so it appears as if you are looking out for both of their financial interests.