How can I be happy that my friend is getting married?

[Worrieditsamistake]

NC for this because it involves my good friend and I wouldn't want it to be outing.

I have a very, very old friend. My best friend. She has had some really shitty relationships over the years. Never really had a healthy LTR (so no children) and also quite a lot of financial stress and uncertainty.

Several years ago she met a really, really lovely guy and they have a truly wonderful relationship. They are made for each other and I am so happy for her. They don't live together - he's got young adult/teen sons from a previous relationship (ended long before) and so he's staying local to them until the youngest is older. No possibility of children together due to age. All good.

Yesterday my friend called me. He proposed to her and she said yes. It wasn't at all what she was expecting but she is over the moon, they both are. My first reaction was to be absolutely thrilled for them.

But.

After years of struggling my friend has managed buy a small home for herself which she owns outright. She doesn't have much pension to speak of and isn't young enough or earning well enough to change that significantly. This house is her entire security and is SO important to her.

Her fiancé is a genuinely lovely guy (I am certain he is one of the good ones) but he is not a high earner at all and has absolutely NO assets whatsoever. I think the longer term plan is that he will move in with my friend in a few years once he feels able to move away from his son.

Neither of them are especially financially savvy (that's not really the right way of saying it but hopefully yuu know what I mean) and I don't think either of them will have considered the legal implications of marriage. I'm really concerned that my friend is going to be jeopardising her security. If he moves in, my understanding is that her house will become the marital home and that it would almost certainly become a marital asset. He earns less than she does, has even less savings, and also has dependants and so it's possible he would even be awarded more than a half share in the event of divorce.

Also my friend has several nieces/nephews that she is close to and she has mentioned in the past that her estate will pass to them. This obviously wouldn't happen if they marry, and her estate would ultimately pass to her partner's children (or even a future wife, if he remarried) rather than her own family if she were to die first. This isn't such an issue compared to the risk to her security, but I still don't think it's what she'd want.

The issue is I don't think either of them have considered any of this and I am really worried for my friend. In the cold light of day marriage is of absolutely ZERO benefit to my friend and had a big upside for her fiancé.

I'm certain he has no idea of this and his motivations are simply that he loves her and wants to spend his life with her. But years on mumsnet makes me see it quite differently and I'm even finding myself feeling angry with him for asking her to risk her security, which I know is unfair.

So to get to the point, I guess I have two questions/problems. The first is if I should gently probe my friend to see if she understands the legal implications of marriage. I've helped her a lot in the past with financial advice and so this wouldn't be as put of place as it might sound. So long as she is fully informed then I'm happy if she's happy.

The second problem is how to deal with my low level resentment at her fiancé. Its made me look at him a bit differently which I KNOW is unreasonable. But my friend has had so much shit to deal with over the years and FINALLY has security and he is (albeit unknowingly) asking her to give that up for him.

I owe it to her to make sure that she fully understands the legal implications of marriage so that she can make a informed decision, and take any legal advice and actions she might feel she needs

Why do you think you owe her that?

If you genuinely do think you owe her that, why can't you just tell her? Cup of tea, 'I need a quick chat with you...' etc. It'll be done in 2 minutes. If she's close enough a friend that you feel you owe it to her to manage her finances, then she's close enough to say 'Have you considered what'll happen to the inheritance if you divorce?' Isn't she?

Your absolutely right OP. My friend married one of the good guys. No kids. Divorced within 3 years and he walked away with nearly half of her equity (all pre marriage and in her name). Speak to your friend - i am close enough to my best friend that i could say this to her in a "i know you dont wabt to hear this and feel free to tell me to piss off" style.

I'm getting a weird vibe here tbh. The kind that makes me wonder if you were hoping for some of this money?

I think it's sweet that you care so much for your friend and her financial security but i do wonder why you say you now hold resentment against the fiancé? To me only someone with a vested interest would go as far as to say they hold low level resentment?

You can raise the issue of the house with your friend before she marries. There are various things she can do, such as place the house in a holding trust before she marries. Im no legal expert so she would need to seek proffesional advice. I also want to say even if he did inherit 50% of the house upon marriage, her half would pass to her own relatives when she passes if she left instructions for that in her will.

My hope is that your just a dear friend who cares deeply for her friends future security and I think it's perfectly possible that this is the case but ultimately only your friend can decide what is best for her and all you can do is raise the subject extremely sensitively and ensure she knows your only concerned for her welfare should they separate.

You seem way too over-invested. Most friends wouldn’t even think like this.

Sure you are not one of the nieces hoping to inherit?

This obviously wouldn't happen if they marry, and her estate would ultimately pass to her partner's children (or even a future wife, if he remarried) rather than her own family if she were to die first.

Nope. When she marries She can make a will that leaves her house to her nieces and nephews, with a life interest for him to live in (til he dies, cohabits or remarried, for example).

That’s what I would do, in her shoes. Especially while they are both relatively young.

Also she can do a prenup. They aren’t completely toothless.

But in her shoes I wouldn’t marry at all. Just live together.

I don’t think you should say anything, I really don’t think people like others interfering or opining on their lives. It’s not really any of your business and it’s rather a gloomy way of looking at things. If I were you I would stay well out of it.

I would think like this.

I am sick of seeing men inherit from their wives, quickly remarry a younger woman who then never leaves a penny to his kids. Inheritance that came from their mother.

It had happened to 4 or 6 friends that I know.

Also women who have jeopardised their security without looking further into the oft quoted MN Mantra that ‘marriage protects you.

Marriage is a legal and financial contract. Why wouldn’t friends discuss aspects of that if one of them doesn’t seem to have recognised that?

You sound like a really good friend OP, I would raise this with her.

i know of someone who met someone in her 40s, fell madly in love, got married and put husband on the deeds on the house she owned and guess what they divorced not long after and she lost half the equity. We strongly advised her not to but she thought it was a big romantic gesture.

so two things for friend, don’t put husband to be on deeds and get a pre nup. Or don’t get married.

You seem overly involved in your friends business to be honest. It sounds almost like gas lighting, you are a bit crap with money and relationships bit don't worry do what I say I'll keep you right...

I think you should just be happy for her and let her make her own life decisions. Despite what you've said she's living in a house mortgage free. So I'm sure she will manage.

Tbf she wouldn't have enough to buy another house in the event of a divorce. So I can absolutely see OP's point and as the very good friend she seems to be, she's perfectly sensible to raise the issue with her friend.

My only concern was the talk of resentment, she just seems a little to over invested, in the financial position of her friend. Even if she did help her find stability which is a lovely and caring thing to have done. It doesn't give her the right to make her friends important life decisions her own. I know she knows this and she's aware she's being irrational, she should just advise the friend of the legal ramifications of marriage just as she has In the past. Advise her of her options and leave the rest to her.

Why are people name calling the OP, saying she's weird?

Defensive, much?

The OP is right. The friend benefits financially not one bit from the marriage and indeed has everything to lose in the event of a divorce.

I haven't called her weird. I said I got a weird vibe from the post and it wasn't because of her concern for her friend. That is a legitimate concern that she can and should rightly raise with the friend.
The weird vibe comes from the fact she has stated she holds a grudge now against the fiance for putting her friend In this position. She has stated she knows its irrational but never the less, that's an extreme feeling and suggests over investment in her friends life decision making and finances.

There's no doubt this is a very good person with her friends best interests at heart, but we cannot run people's lives and shouldn't be left judging someone we previously liked harshly for a loving gesture.

She could get the house in trust to her relatives.
DM has one and her DH has life time living in the property, and then split between siblings according to the trust. I think that is fair.

He continues to have a roof over his head whilst there is no chance of the inheritance going to a future wife - I doubt there would be more children.

She needs to see a solicitor for advice and it’s worth paying for.

Put it to her in £££ - V solicitor advice. Or show her a few threads in here.

Why do you think she doesn’t know all this?

I bought a house in my name alone with my deposit and am in a good job. My then fiancé bounced between unemployed and minimum wage jobs (health issues…he’s now out of work sick for the foreseeable)

I still married him knowing if we broke up he would be the one that came out with more than he came into the marriage but I love him and trusted him..as you do in a marriage and it is a risk I was willing to take.

I wouldn’t hold resentment for him because he sounds like a good guy that makes your friend happy.

But I would be worried about her home and her security.

It sounds like this isn’t going to be happening anytime soon, so for now I would just sit on it until they have a date for the wedding or talking about booking a date.

Then I would tell her bluntly how if she wants the house to go to her nieces and nephews then shes going to have to do X, Y and Z, or find out about it.

I would absolutely take her out to celebrate her engagement and not say anything just now but absolutely say if before they get legally married.

But for right now just let her enjoy being engaged and make sure she knows how happy you are for her.

You sound like a great friend and it sounds like she deserves to be happy.

OP be prepared for her to take offense. Most likely she will mention it to him as well. I get where you are coming from but no good will come from it.

They can have a pre nup to protect her house.

In the cold light of day marriage is of absolutely ZERO benefit to my friend and had a big upside for her fiancé.

Haven't read the thread, but this statement is incorrect. The man is bringing his children to the relationship, who will be able to support both the man and woman in old age. Of course, this is dependent on them staying together.

You don't know how she feels about her estate now though? I am married but if I were to get married in my later years and I was with my partner long enough to really know him, I'd definitely leave my home to him if I died prematurely. I'd want him to be secure and safe if I wasn't around. She's not single now so her priority might have changed from her nieces and nephews inheriting.

I'm sure she is bright enough to make this decision herself and who knows she might make a will and still leave it to her nieces and nephews.

It's none of your business. I wouldn't dream of even contemplating such things if a friend told me they were getting married, I would simply be happy for them. Your friend is an adult, leave it to her to organise her own life. I can't imagine being so heavily invested in a friend's finances.

I'm all for protecting yourself and remaining financially independent but the same should apply to everyone not 'the what's his is theirs and what's hers is hers' that seems to prevail on MN.

Yes, I've noticed that on MN a lot as well. In real life, not at all.

Life changes when you get married, your priorities change, decisions you've made in the past change, things you want for the future change. She's getting married not orchestrating some great plan to lose her house and disinherit her relatives who btw are not automatically entitled to anything. She's an adult, she can make her own decisions, change wills, sell her house and buy another with her fiance etc etc etc. You sound far too involved in her life and decision making. Keep your nose out of her business.

Your statement about marriage bringing her zero benefit is bizarre, commitment a lifetime of happiness, stepchildren, a home together is hardly zero benefit. Is there some other reason you resent her getting married? Has she been the friend with the disastrous life that made you feel good about your own life and now you can't look down on her?

You raise a very good point.

She needs to be made aware 100% of what the financial implications of marrying him would mean.

You're a very good friend.

I feel the same. You obviously care a lot about her but she’s an adult and can make her own decisions. Do you have a relationship yourself? You seem very invested in your friend finances

Sorry but you do sound incredibly patronizing

Yanbu to fear the worst. I would too.
I'm like your friend in this scenario, left abusive man, have a small place finally, a modest job, id never have risked what little I had by marrying.

After abusive relationships, men can seem completely different, they can seem like good guys, but then you realise, wait, absolutely everything about this set up suits you and all the risk is mine. Can he really be unaware of that? And even though he's lovely, "lovely" and not like my abusive x, I know if I raise this, it's the start of the end.