Cognitive dissonance re. parents' lack of intelligence making me truly miserable

[lancia24]

My parents are in their seventies but this is not an age-related issue, they've always been the same.

I've come to realise that 24/7 my whole life I've been psychologically bending over backwards and tying myself in knots to not to acknowledge just how airheaded my parents are.

I know it sounds cruel, but the evidence is simply overwhelming, and it's caused real problems.

Examples my seem trivial but this is hour-by-hour, day-by-day, week-by-week, year by year...:

My eight year-old niece visits DM/DP & wants to go to a Disney Store. DM/her grandmother insists there's one in the nearest town. Swears blind. Literally refuses to check online and insists 'nicely' nobody else needs to. Family trip to town, no Disney store, devastated (and confused) niece, and no apology (just a lot of 'well I could have sworn' etc.).

Problem with mice. They have bird feeders too close to the front door. The birds drop food, which attracts the mice, who end up venturing into the house. Takes literally years to persuade them of this. Finally, after bird feeders have been gone for a few months, no more mice. Their response? Put the bird feeders back out, because the mice have gone.

I could go on forever. It has always revealed itself when we've watched films/TV together too - they honestly don't pick up on any subtlety whatsoever, no emotional grey areas, no piognancy etc. If it's not white hats vs. black hats and the white hats win, they don't understand.

And yet when I was a child - as I'm sure all children are - they seem to have indoctrinated me with programming that makes it impossible to see that they are stupid. I seem cursed to entangle myself with trying to figure out why they do the hundreds of things they do, as in, why non-stupid people would do the things they do...

There must be people out there experiencing something similar, surely...? How do you deal with it?

That's pretty much what my mum said after I returned from my first term at university. But over the years I learned that she was deeply, deeply insecure. It's not right that she felt threatened, but that's what the insecurity did.
By way of contrast my children way outperformed me academically and I celebrated it.
I find it sad, particularly that I didn't get it sooner, when mum was alive. I could have reassured her. She had a tough start to life and gave me a better start.

Lol at how this thread has gone from Lenny to rabbit holes.

My Dad can be a bit difficult like this. He's not actually stupid but he has zero adulting skills and is utterly incapable of managing his own life

He left school at 15 and has no qualifications but was at grammar school prior to this so he must have been fairly bright at some point. He has always worked but in low skill jobs

I'm certain he has undiagnosed ASD but has been shielded his whole life from having to deal with the world, firstly by his Mum and later by mine. If anything happens to my Mum before him, he will become the bane of my life

He has no concept of money, no idea how to pay a bill or insure his car, can't work any kind of technology, has never left the country (& barely left the city he was born in), watches BBC News 24 obsessively, doesn't have any sense of personal responsibility, zero personal hygiene without constant nagging and is very naive and believes anything he is told/reads which means he is also a raving racist. He also believes he is very astute and nothing gets past him which is not remotely true

He is exhausting. I'm autistic myself but I'm far more high functioning than him so although I sympathise with him, I do get very frustrated with him too

He is also a life long alcoholic, definitely due to self medicating but this makes him even more belligerent and unpleasant to be around. We have a very strained and difficult relationship

he will become the bane of my life
@polkadotpixie please remember that you have agency in your own life and you do not have to be trapped by your father's problems

I had been considering starting a thread on my mother for a long time now, but wasn't brave enough because I was worried I'd get the 'vile thread' comments so I'm grateful to OP for posting this.

When I was growing up, I knew my mum was 'different' but it took me until my late 20s to realise she probably has an ID.

She has never been a mother to me. She couldn't mother me growing up, she wasn't capable. Instead I was expected to mother her. All the parenting fell to my dad, who was a rather volatile man to say the least.

She's never worked. She can't grasp basic concepts. As a child I had food poisoning many times from her not refrigerating food, she just doesn't understand the concept of meat/fish and bacteria. You can try telling her but it's in one ear out the other. She couldn't grasp admin or bills or anything so my dad had to do it all. She's not very literate and not at all numerate.

She struggles to navigate anywhere, won't go on a train as in her own words she doesn't understand how it works, won't go anywhere new/unfamiliar ever unless someone holding her hand through it, but doesn't want to travel anywhere anyway. The time she tried to learn to drive she couldn't grasp traffic lights and somehow flipped the car over. She would not be safe on her own in a city, she would not be able to cross a busy road safely.

She repeats tiny handful of stories that make up her life, or her sisters' lives over and over. Like, that's it. She never has anything new to say. It's really sad.

I was NC with her for years as living with this as a child took a massive toll on my mental health and to be honest I couldn't stand her. As well as all this, she was extremely inappropriate with me growing up and I had a mental breakdown when I was 12. I didn't understand why she couldn't be a 'proper' mother to me.

Then my dad died and she fell apart because she didn't know how to navigate the world. Everything was about her, it was like it didn't even occur to her that my brother and I had lost our dad. Then my brother had to take on my dad's role.

I visited her for the first time in my adult life (I'm mid 30s now) a couple of years ago. She lives at the opposite end of the country. She wanted me to take her to the supermarket even though I was only there for the day. She put a mask on in the car even though she hadn't been wearing one any other time... because 'that's what the guidance says' she said.

I asked if she would come and visit me and see where I live. Last summer her friend arranged a coach trip to a town 1.5 hours' drive from me. I told her I'd come and pick her up and take her to mine (because obviously public transport was out of the question), and had booked a table at a restaurant for the evening. So I drove to her, drove her back to mine, and mentioned I was looking forward to the meal. She said 'oh, I can't have a meal, I'm having a meal with my friend and I have to be back by 4'. So about 1.5 hours later I had to drive her back. 6 hours' of driving for my mum's 1.5 hour visit. I could've cried from frustration. I asked if she'd like to meet again while she was in the area but she said her friend had started a massive row with her saying she didn't want to be left on her own.

It sounds horrible but I don't really feel any love for her. She's like an acquaintance. There's no bond there at all. It's not her fault she's the way she is but I can't help but feel very angry at times.

Edited to add to this massive essay:

She has absolutely no interest in my life. I recently completed a degree and she hasn't asked me a thing about it. I had a job interview a couple of weeks ago which I told her about, not a word from her. I told her I had to have heart surgery, all she said was 'oh, my heart races sometimes when I'm anxious'. I recently started an aggressive treatment and told her about it, she just said 'oh crikey' and moved on to telling me a story I'd heard a thousand times about my cousin's child who I've never met.

@ThePrecipitationPigeon

I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this all your life. Posters on this thread truly do not understand. I am fortunate that my own parents are not like this despite an upbringing similar to yours. It's just awful. I have seen what they've had to deal with even now as grown adults with elderly parents.

The time she tried to learn to drive she couldn't grasp traffic lights and somehow flipped the car over.

This resonates with me. My gran cannot understand a lot of things. Not complex concepts, but like you say she has no idea how traffic lights work or what their purpose is.

She repeats tiny handful of stories that make up her life, or her sisters' lives over and over. Like, that's it. She never has anything new to say. It's really sad.

This is also my gran. Barely a flicker of interest in other people's lives. Very self-centred. She'll just pick a point in her life at random and start talking from there. We've heard all the stories a million times. It's not dementia as she has been like this her whole life. She's capable of talking about other things but doesn't really want to. She's really quite stupid and it's as simple as that- she doesn't know how to navigate social situations and talk to anyone. She's always been that way. It's mind-numbing and, oftentimes, quite hurtful.

@Spudthespanner Thank you so much, I wasn't sure if anyone would read my post as it's so long!

So you really get it, with your gran being the same. What is your parents' relationship with your grandparents like?

My mum is in her mid 60s now and I've no idea what will happen with her when she's elderly. There is no way I could contribute to her care... even the few hours I spent with her when she visited sent my blood pressure through the roof. I was left wondering if it was at least partly why my dad had such a short fuse and had to take stress leave so often. He was a civil engineer and very intelligent. I never understood why they were together. I alternate between wondering if he felt trapped because he knew she wouldn't be able to take care of my brother and me on her own, or if the whole setup suited him because she was so passive. I do know he wasn't happy with his world being so small and wanted to travel, but my mum wouldn't/couldn't have it.

@ThePrecipitationPigeon im so sorry your upbringing was like this.

I recognise some of it. My mother isn’t as bad as you describe yours, but the themes are similar - down to driving straight across a grass roundabout when my Dad was trying to teach her to drive back in the early 60s! - she never drove again. She has no sense of direction, can’t navigate, is terrible with maths and can’t deal with any technology beyond a telephone. The disinterest in other people’s lives is also similar.

I hesitate to call my Mum stupid as she did try to go back to education in her 40s, having had to leave school at 15, and she got some way through a literature degree (but flunked the exams). But her long term memory is bad and she couldn’t cope with the pressure either.

I wonder now if she has had lifelong ADHD as she really struggles to focus. (And I think I have some traits but have always had a lot of structure and have been successful in life). I think she had trauma from childhood too. It’s all so mixed up I can’t tell anymore. But some of it also seems to be just low intelligence in certain ways as she just can’t grasp some things but will still argue until she’s blue in the face. She has some deep insecurities I think. The older I get the more perspective I have, but as a child and a teenager, growing up with a reactive, explosive, argumentative and stubborn mother was very hard.

@ThePrecipitationPigeon I get that it’s hard to talk about and a lot of people just can’t relate to the experience. Sometimes I find it hard to describe - because of sorting out childhood feelings from adult insight. It’s really hard and it makes you feel uncertain in your own judgement. I know what you mean.

@MotherOfCatBoy

driving straight across a grass roundabout when my Dad was trying to teach her to drive back in the early 60s!

I'm cringing at this! It's like a lack of common sense, isn't it? My mum couldn't understand why, when turning right at a box junction, she wasn't supposed to stop at the red light on the road she was turning into. She stopped in the middle of the box and had a big argument with the instructor about it, and was adamant she was correct to stop despite everyone beeping at her. Like your mum, arguing until she's blue in the face.

as a child and a teenager, growing up with a reactive, explosive, argumentative and stubborn mother was very hard.

It really was. I feel like I don't and never did have a mother. She was just this woman who was there. I was fortunate at least to have a dad who was interested in me and who actually parented me, even if he did fuck me up in other ways with his explosive temper.

I get that it’s hard to talk about and a lot of people just can’t relate to the experience. Sometimes I find it hard to describe - because of sorting out childhood feelings from adult insight. It’s really hard and it makes you feel uncertain in your own judgement. I know what you mean.

The few people I've talked to about her, bar one friend who really gets it, just look baffled. It's a very lonely thing to carry. I saw a therapist who didn't seem to believe how hopeless she was and attributed the helplessness to being under my father's thumb. It wasn't like that though. He encouraged her to do things but she never wanted to do them. And she's done nothing for herself in all the years since he died, which she seems happy with.

I’m so sorry that’s awful you shouldn’t have been put through any of that (as a child or now as an adult). I think you’d be quite justified in starting a thread or joining the “but we took you to stately homes” threads on here. I wouldn’t blame you if you just dropped her now but I know it’s so hard, you keep trying just in case they miraculously become what you want them to.

She's kept at arm's length. She needs help with certain things but my dad has firm boundaries in place and sees her once a week max and tries his best not to throttle her. I see her every 2 months or so and just let it all wash over me. She manages fine at home alone at the moment thankfully. My mum sees her once a year as she has more than enough on her plate dealing with her own mother who is very stupid but in different ways.

Quite a few of the examples of parental behaviour that are showing sound like low intelligence coupled with personality disorder to me. The one about the fish tank in particular.

I don't understand why my mother thought that she would be a decent mother.... if you can't have your child's wellbeing and happiness in mind, why bother. I know there was and is some societal pressure to become a parent, and then there is not being a concious person, but, Christ what a mess!!!!! She didn't just sexually abuse me, there were other vile, abusive behaviours such as gaslighting and making us believe we were crazy. We also had to be better than possible with our school grades and were not allowed to engage in normal, childish behaviour.
We used to go to fucking church and wouldn't be allowed to have toys and the like to help us get through the service. I wilfully oppose religion now!

I relate to so much of this thread and I am thankful it is here. I’m still trying to get my head around my parents’ behaviours and attitudes. There was abuse in my childhood - my father is an alcoholic and my mother is a narcissist. For a long time I thought my father was the issue and it wasn’t until I got into therapy I realised that all of my confusion and most of my issues around self esteem were related to my mother.

I do feel sorry for her. Her own upbringing was terrible. Her education completely lacking. But the impact on me as her child has also been terrible. My mother isn’t intelligent, and like many are describing here, there have been many things she has said or done that make absolutely no sense. But she is also manipulative and if gaslighting was an Olympic sport she would win a gold medal. I also think she is wilfully ignorant because she uses lack of understanding as a way to try and get other people to do things for her. But then she is so difficult when you attempt to help her that it just becomes impossible. She will argue up is down if you let her, and say very nasty things.

Like others have said, she also has zero interest in me, but she wants to pretend that we are all very close to everyone else. So there’s this weird dichotomy of ‘omg I haven’t seen you forever, how are you? I love you!’ and deliberately ignoring or shitting on anything I say. I try very hard not to tell her about anything that matters to me. We are low contact and yet she still acts like family is everything. She’s also done a great job of making other people feel sorry for her because I don’t see her that often. I am considered selfish, aloof, uncaring, with no heart.

At this point, that’s okay.

@CherryPickle your mum is just too dumb to understand, she can't help who she is.
I'm not saying this to defend her she just hasn't got the brains/intellect/sophistication to have enough insight to see the damage she's doing.
Of course you deserved much much better, but she wasn't capable of it. Of course she should not have been a parent but she wasn't capable of understanding the reasons why.
None of it is your fault and you absolutely deserve every opportunity to understand and come to terms with your childhood, and to heal💗

It can go the other way too, my DH's mother is an absolute genius and complete narcissist who abused him in pretty much every way you can imagine until he left home (to go to the same university as her, which he had been told he would go to since the age of 4). I remember on one of the first occasions I met her she told me 'I'm cleverer than him. He might think he's the smartest but he's never been as clever as me'. Well he is, he's just not an abusive narcissist.

There's an element of neurodiversity in the mix, but being diagnosed autistic and with ADHD myself I don't really have much time for it as an excuse for appalling behaviour and even if it did contribute to some of the awful parenting she has refused to ever acknowledge it or take any responsibility for it at all. The excuse was always 'I was ill'.

We have been NC for eleven years and DH has three years therapy behind him where a lot of suppressed memories came to the fore. Absolutely no chance she will ever get near him or our children now.

The worst is when you go over something, trying to explain as clearly as you can, because they asked for your help (say computer related), they cannot follow your instructions/ advice and make you feel like you don't know what you are talking about/ undermine you/ make you feel stupid.

Oh god yes this. Although I don’t get undermined at least. Just agreed with and then ignored.

With my mum it was somebody she hired to repair a window that was rotting. They apparently repaired it, but then it fell apart again. The builder came back round and gave her a ridiculous quote to fix it, the whole thing sounded like a scam. I told her she should get someone else to look at it and not pay this guy any more money. But she didn’t listen.

Another one is her passport. She hasn’t had one since the 80s but constantly talks about wanting to go away. My dad tried to get her one but she lost her birth certificate and wouldn’t get a replacement. So my dad eventually gave up but she liked to tell me it was his fault we never went abroad. I know this isn’t true because I used to see the brochures he’d bring home and I overheard him trying to persuade her to go abroad. I offered to help her with her passport application and getting a copy of her BC, but she never took me up on it despite me reminding her several times. Her lack of drive and inability to organise anything is always everyone else’s fault.

I do sympathise because I have ADHD, and I think she almost certainly has it too along with the ID. It’s the lying, blaming and the constant moaning about not being able to do stuff that is within her power to do something about that drives me crazy.

I hate that she blamed my dad for all this stuff. For a long time I believed it and hated him, which suited her because she was jealous of our relationship. Now my dad’s gone she blames my brother for not helping her. And probably me, to other people.

This is something I worry about for my children.
My husband is not a bad person, he is however very, very unintelligent (I believe if he was in the school system now he would be diagnosed with various learning difficulties). I cannot trust him with basic tasks as he will do something dangerous and get upset if I point out why what he has done is so stupid....he just doesn't get it.
An example being when one of our outside drains blocked, he used the rods to unblock it and then used one of those big sponges for cleaning cars to wipe the rods, he then left the sponge tucked away on the window sill covered in human excrement for me to pick up because he 'didn't think to put it in the bin, it might be used again'. I asked why he wasn't worried that one of the kids would pick it up....just got a blank expression.
He cannot speak to utility companies on the phone because he doesn't understand the questions they ask him, he has been accused of fraudulently trying to gain access to the account because he can't make himself make sense to the person he is speaking to.
Even I get frustrated with him sometimes because after 20 years together I can't understand what point he is trying to get across, it is very difficult when he will say one thing and mean something entirely different.
I have been on high alert for 18 years since our eldest child was born, I absolutely could not leave him for any length of time as he isn't capable of keeping a young child safe(I am not even close to being the safety police myself, he is off the scale dangerous).
I am not claiming to be the most intelligent person alive, far from it, I haven't even been to uni but until you live with someone so spectacularly clueless you can't imagine how difficult it is, it affects everything you do and uses so much mental energy it's exhausting.
I can well imagine my kids contributing to a thread like this in years to come and it makes me feel sick that I didn't do better for them.

In fairness though, he knows how to unblock a drain effectively, and you didn't have to lift a finger except to chuck the sponge he used to clean the tools afterwards. I have a degree and a MSc but no practical skills. We all have different strengths, and your children may benefit from their father's as much as yours.

I really genuinely do not mean to be rude, but why did you marry him?

I can't imagine falling in love with someone of such low intelligence. My gran is similar and I love her because she's my gran, but I couldn't cope with that in a romantic partner. I can understand maybe initially falling in love with him but then how have you maintained that love after all these years when he does spectacularly stupid things all the time?

And yet you chose to reproduce with him. Why?

I think what will eventually happen @PomTiddlyPomPom is that you will reach snapping point. However I have to say that what you're describing sounds like lack of executive function and ADHD rather than plain ol' low IQ. And it's not too late for you and him to explore that possibility, learn about it and seek treatment in the form of medication or therapy.

My DH went to Oxford but he is 42 and has never put his clothes in the washing basket. He has 11 A* at GCSE but couldn't fry an egg until last year - he has learned though!

To answer the 'why did you Marry/reproduce with him' questions.....it wasn't such an issue back when we started our lives together, I was young and in love. He was kind, dependable, lots of fun, had his own home, worked full time in a job he had been doing for 15 years (ie not a person who regularly job hopped with an unreliable income).
He was basically what I had grown up to expect in a man, solid and dependable. Anything beyond that was way above what I could expect in a partner/husband.
Unsurprisingly I have made sure my daughter knows her value, something no-one ever did for me.

My father was really clever. He was the smartest boy in school and college. He excelled academically. I really looked up to him and in my younger years worked hard to impress him.

Somewhere around my mid twenties I began to notice some things.

He couldn't look after his car, himself or any sort of relationships. He couldn't feed himself at all. He was just utterly clueless. He couldn't change a lightbulb. For all his lofty opinions of his own talents his career hadn't been exactly dazzling.

Most shocking of all was his perpetual confusion about people. "How can that woman be depressed, she has a good job?" "Why would he cheat on his wife when she's better looking than the other woman?" "Why would anyone have children, they are very expensive?" "Why doesn't he stop eating, then he wouldn't be so fat and he might find a girlfriend."

These bizarre questions that were so ridiculous everyone would assume he was joking but he was completely sincere.

He's dead now and I miss him. Your parents are just people with their own limitations like anyone else. They have raised you as best they could with the capabilities they had. Give them a break and appreciate them instead of criticising them for your perceived inadequacies.