This wasn’t assault so why do I feel so violated?

[Emptycups]

TRIGGER WARNING- Mention of sexual abuse later in post

I can’t believe I’m still going over an incident that happened a few days ago and how much it’s upset me. I don’t understand why it’s upset me this much because I blame myself for it because of my frustrating, passive, non-assertive personality that’s got me into trouble so much all my life.

Sorry that this is long!!

I help my mum at her home a few days a week since she developed health issues, but I don’t drive so have to get a bus there and back but sometimes do stay over.

It’s the same number bus but different drivers each time usually and they’re all very nice or neutral usually. The bus journey is about 45 minutes.

I saw her Saturday and got the bus home that evening, and as I got on, the driver had a weird vibe and I felt intimidated. It’s hard to articulate but it just felt “off”. There was a problem with my card when paying so I had to wait while he tried it again which took a few minutes and he made a couple of flirty remarks. I just laughed them off awkwardly. This sounds horrible but I’ve experienced it a few times before, and I know when I see it- he had “pervy eyes”, like he was glaring at me and fancied me and didn’t break contact. There were a few people sitting downstairs and I went upstairs as I usually do because it’s quieter and I was exhausted.

I looked out the window about ten minutes later and saw a woman about my age (42) get on. I heard the driver talking to her, just general stuff at first but then he asked if she was married and she said no. They carried on chatting then he said “So how come you’re not married then?” And she said it had never happened for her etc.

She got off the bus when we were about halfway back and we started to go through a very rural, secluded area of the journey. Everything was so quiet by now, and then the driver stopped and turned the engine off. I wondered what he was doing and then I heard him open his door and slowly coming up the stairs. I felt my heart racing a bit and he stood next to me and said he was just seeing who was left on the bus now. I felt vulnerable and a bit scared. He then said “Are you coming down for a chat?” and I said no I’d rather stay up here as I’m very tired.

This is when my stupid nature kicked in and I felt I SHOULD go and talk to him because I’d been a bit rude before. So I went downstairs about 5 mins before my stop. I stood next to him near the front and he asked what I’d been up to so I told him I’d been at my mums. He then asked if I’m married and I replied yes, for over 20 years. I asked if he is and he said yes but that they have an open marriage. I said that’s fair enough , it’s not my thing but each to their own. He started telling me about various flings he’s had, and his wife too and how he’s on dating sites.

I said oh that’s great if you’re both ok with it and casually said that my friend is in an open marriage (which is true) and he seemed really enthusiastic and keen then. By this point we were at my stop but he hadn’t opened the doors yet. He said it’s great to chat to someone so open minded like me who “gets” it, and that he wouldn’t dare talk like this to anyone unless they’re “well over 40, like you”, which actually upset me because I worry all the time that I look older than I am. And he just assumed I’m well over 40! I’d never say that to someone.

He asked for my friend’s number and I said no, and I lied that she and her husband live over 300 miles away anyway. He said that’s no problem, he’ll travel anywhere and wanted details about what they do. He then went into graphic detail about the types of things “cuckold men” do and it was disgusting. He told me about a woman on the dating app who sent him nudes and described them in vulgar detail. I’m nowhere near a prude but hearing him talk like this made me feel ill.

I said I’d better go and he opened the door but said can you give your friend my number? I said ok because I didn’t want to appear rude!!! (What is wrong with me?) and he wrote it on a bit of paper. He said tell her I’m a 7, or an 8 out of 10, that I’m 54 and I’ll travel anywhere. He then asked if I agreed on his score and stared at me with those eyes which creeped me out. I just said I don’t like rating people.

He then repeated that he’s glad I was on the bus as he’d never be able to talk so openly to any young women and wouldn’t go near them or they put in a complaint. He repeated again he only chats like this to women who are WAY over 40 like me 😒

I gave him zero signals that I wanted to talk like this, but I’m a very friendly, chatty, empathic person, and so many men mistake this for flirting.

I got off the bus and haven’t passed on his number and won’t be! It’s upset me so much though and reminded me of things in my past. I’ve been sexually abused by family members, family friends, strangers in the street, a boy at school, an old boss…so many men have invaded me physically and emotionally over the years. It’s me, I give off an invitation I think, and I can’t help myself. I can’t be rude to people and always feel guilty if I try. I have very good listening skills and men seem to read that completely wrong - only ever older men though.

Anyway I cant stop ruminating over all this, so had to try to write it down.

Rather than addressing the only 2 important points in this post 1) A sexual predator is using his job to prey on women 2).He needs to be stopped, you are determined to find fault with the op. Why???

I don't see how people can't see that both his behaviour was inappropriate and that the OP didn't need to go downstairs to talk to him.

She had asserted a boundary and he responded appropriately to that. She did well! She just needs to hear that it was ok to do that and that he should be reported.

If it helps any, I had an eerily similar experience in a taxi one night in my twenties. I had missed the last train, in a city I didn’t know. I listened to the fucker’s creepy story too.

It’s useful to think over what you could have done differently but don’t internalise blame or shame. The only person who did wrong was him.

Imagine for a second op that you were an undercover reporter, recording that conversation, because you’d heard rumours about that bus driver.

How do you think the bus company would react to hearing that transcript, or seeing an article about this in the local paper?

I’m trying to give you some perspective on this situation - if you “neutralise” your side of the interaction like this you’re still left with his conduct which was completely and utterly unacceptable for the workplace. And that’s the softest interpretation.

He tried this on with another woman on that bus. He probably has done this with others. I bet if you put out a feeler to the bus company or the police, they might already have this predator on their radar. If there’s a neighbourhood WhatsApp or Facebook you might find rumours or warnings.

I think the police would take this seriously because what he did was quite blatant and that suggests someone preparing to do more. I think the reason you’re so shook by this is that you know instinctually that he was contemplating an assault.

Take care of yourself op but don’t minimise this.

Absolutely this.

Also, I think that if I were sitting upstairs on a bus, with no exit route other than down a narrow staircase, and the driver came upstairs and behaved in a way I found creepy, I would probably go downstairs as well.

Not to be closer to the driver, but to be closer to the exit.

I wouldn't want to stay upstairs knowing that I was alone on the bus with him and that if he chose to come upstairs again and assault me, I would be unable to escape.

I think this decision was the OP's survival instinct kicking in.

This. I agree with you 100% and I don’t understand why people are failing to grasp the point.

Posters are jumping to the conclusion that anyone who says ‘why did you go and chat to him’ are victim-blaming and exonerating the bus driver and that absolutely isn’t happening.

There is an unbelievable amount of victim blaming on this thread I'm quite disgusted. OP you did absolutely nothing wrong. You are entitled to sit where you like on a public bus without being afraid of assault from the driver. I completely see why you descended 5 minutes before your stop and also why you made an attempt at small talk. What happened to you is awful and terrifying I'm so sorry. If you don't feel like you can report it, which again is totally understandable, is there someone you can debrief with like a RL friend, family member or even better a therapist? Look after yourself. Hugs

Appreciate all the replies, it’s really helping me to reflect and process this. I do see it from all sides and can understand the comments saying that I had already drawn a boundary but then went on to override it myself. Like I played myself it feels like. Thinking about it more and more, I think it was because I knew that when I went downstairs he was going to attempt a conversation of some sort, and that he might not let me off the bus til I chat to him, so I thought if I go down a few minutes early, and “get it out the way” then by the time we’re at my stop I’ll have given him what he wants, which I thought was just a chat. I expected the nosy questions like he’d asked the other woman, but what I wasn’t prepared for was the sexual nature of it.

Like someone else commented, I should be entitled to be a chatty, outgoing, pleasant person to talk to, without that being mistaken as inviting lewd conversation.

There’s plenty of people I do talk to who, although I might find it stressful, they don’t start talking in graphic detail about a random woman’s nudes and specific sexual scenarios. I do think this man was way off in his perception of how you’re meant to talk to a customer.

So here’s the really awful thing, and this will be hard for most to understand and will probably make people angry towards me. Maybe it’s due to my history of abuse. I feel sorry for him. I feel guilty for reporting him. He might need this job, maybe he genuinely believed we were just having a fun chat and that it was lighthearted. I was smiling and laughing along after all, even when I was scared, disgusted, insulted and pissed off.
I pity him. I want to just forget it and hope he’s not the driver when I’m on that bus.

This is what I’m like, I have these complex feelings of compassion towards people, even those who treat me badly.

I know it’s frustrating to read but I’m at least aware of it and want things to change, will be speaking to my counsellor tomorrow and also contacting Rape Crisis.

That last sentence, I do think you might be right. I felt it was the best of a bad bunch of options on how to get out as fast and safely as possible.

Thank you so much, this comment is incredible 💕

So sorry this happened to you. Women really are so vulnerable when we travel alone on public transport.

I actually like this idea of trying to be as repulsive as possible! That’s such a good idea to pick your nose!! Tbh I thought I did already look awful the other day but you’re right, they sense the vulnerability and the passive nature.

My 18 year old daughter had a horrible experience on a bus a while ago. She was the last person on the bus and the driver went past the last stop (which she was getting off at). She asked him to stop the bus, which he did but then he decided not to open the door. She got very upset and was asking him to open the door. He told her he was going to drive off, which he did. Unfortunately, the road leads onto a country road. She got hysterical so he opened the door and let her out.

I complained to the bus company who took it very seriously. A senior manager reviewed the complaint and phoned us to update us. During the call I said my daughter was terrified he'd sexually assault her. The manager said he wasn't that type of man. I asked if he'd have believed me if I'd told him a week before this incident that this driver would lock the doors on an 18 year old female, refuse to let her off the bus and drive down a country road with her. He took my point that he didn't really know what this man was capable of as he certainly never thought he'd behave the way he had.

The bus had cctv so they could clearly see them arguing, my daughter upset, the doors locked and the driver moving the bus with my daughter still onboard. I was told that they would be working with the union to give the driver his options (which he intimated would be resign). Otherwise, he'd hand the footage over to the police as he'd clearly broken the law. We were also advised we could report it to the police, a route my daughter didn't want to go down.

OP, there should be cctv footage which will clearly show the driver stop the bus and go upstairs to talk to you. It will also show how uncomfortable you were feeling whilst talking to him downstairs. You went through a horrible experience. I hope you're ok.

OP as I was reading I knew I'd have done exactly the same as you. It's survival - you are trying not to make the other person angry. You are trying to keep the interaction feeling like it's mutual because the feeling of being a victim is terrifying. I would have gone downstairs too, I really would.

Also to the person who picks their nose, I ate biscuits with my mouth open and crumbs going everywhere on purpose once. I had a creep on a train situation. I hate gross eating and it was really hard to make myself do it, but they got up and left.

That’s such a great tip about picking your nose or eating with your mouth open. I will remember it if I am ever in that situation. It breaks the fantasy/objectification that I’m guessing is going on in the minds of these sick individuals.

We will do whatever our instincts tell us to survive in that sort of situation . Don’t pick over how you behaved OP, just report him. His next victim might be the victim of assault.

I am reminded about Maggie O’Farells account of her encounter with a murderer and how she played along and chatted to keep herself safe. It was chilling to read. I think she wrote about it ‘I Am, I Am, I Am’

If this was a taxi driver he would be in breach of the “fit and proper person” requirement. He is not someone “that the average person would trust their “son, daughter, loved one to be with”.
I don’t know the rules for bus drivers but they must be similar, surely?

I'd report this man. He knew what he was doing, its horrible you were made to feel so uncomfortable!

Lots of help on here OP.

I would just add, that you won't be the only person he's done this too. It's sexual harassment after all.

The question is whether youre the first/only person to report him or not. But its misconduct, stopping the bus like that could be gross misconduct and he should face disciplinary as a result - same in any job where are colleague or customer are harrassed and put at risk.

youre hope of not seeing him in the bus again though if he isn't disciplined will only lead to anxiety for you. and what would you do if you did see him again?

i hate men like this. and have no issue with him
loosing his job or facing criminal action. largely because he will have done this before - he sought you out. thats dangerous.

Please report him and also the old boss and others that sexually abused you... they shouldn't be allowed to continue these crimes, it is appalling.

Please please please report

We can't allow men to get away with this behaviour anymore.

Many times this will escalate to sexual assault and rape, possibly even murder if their ego is big enough...they always start small

To some men being a hard nosed bitch will make him determined to put her in her place , take her down a peg or two the best way is after shutting these men down is to completely ignore them .