This wasn’t assault so why do I feel so violated?

[Emptycups]

TRIGGER WARNING- Mention of sexual abuse later in post

I can’t believe I’m still going over an incident that happened a few days ago and how much it’s upset me. I don’t understand why it’s upset me this much because I blame myself for it because of my frustrating, passive, non-assertive personality that’s got me into trouble so much all my life.

Sorry that this is long!!

I help my mum at her home a few days a week since she developed health issues, but I don’t drive so have to get a bus there and back but sometimes do stay over.

It’s the same number bus but different drivers each time usually and they’re all very nice or neutral usually. The bus journey is about 45 minutes.

I saw her Saturday and got the bus home that evening, and as I got on, the driver had a weird vibe and I felt intimidated. It’s hard to articulate but it just felt “off”. There was a problem with my card when paying so I had to wait while he tried it again which took a few minutes and he made a couple of flirty remarks. I just laughed them off awkwardly. This sounds horrible but I’ve experienced it a few times before, and I know when I see it- he had “pervy eyes”, like he was glaring at me and fancied me and didn’t break contact. There were a few people sitting downstairs and I went upstairs as I usually do because it’s quieter and I was exhausted.

I looked out the window about ten minutes later and saw a woman about my age (42) get on. I heard the driver talking to her, just general stuff at first but then he asked if she was married and she said no. They carried on chatting then he said “So how come you’re not married then?” And she said it had never happened for her etc.

She got off the bus when we were about halfway back and we started to go through a very rural, secluded area of the journey. Everything was so quiet by now, and then the driver stopped and turned the engine off. I wondered what he was doing and then I heard him open his door and slowly coming up the stairs. I felt my heart racing a bit and he stood next to me and said he was just seeing who was left on the bus now. I felt vulnerable and a bit scared. He then said “Are you coming down for a chat?” and I said no I’d rather stay up here as I’m very tired.

This is when my stupid nature kicked in and I felt I SHOULD go and talk to him because I’d been a bit rude before. So I went downstairs about 5 mins before my stop. I stood next to him near the front and he asked what I’d been up to so I told him I’d been at my mums. He then asked if I’m married and I replied yes, for over 20 years. I asked if he is and he said yes but that they have an open marriage. I said that’s fair enough , it’s not my thing but each to their own. He started telling me about various flings he’s had, and his wife too and how he’s on dating sites.

I said oh that’s great if you’re both ok with it and casually said that my friend is in an open marriage (which is true) and he seemed really enthusiastic and keen then. By this point we were at my stop but he hadn’t opened the doors yet. He said it’s great to chat to someone so open minded like me who “gets” it, and that he wouldn’t dare talk like this to anyone unless they’re “well over 40, like you”, which actually upset me because I worry all the time that I look older than I am. And he just assumed I’m well over 40! I’d never say that to someone.

He asked for my friend’s number and I said no, and I lied that she and her husband live over 300 miles away anyway. He said that’s no problem, he’ll travel anywhere and wanted details about what they do. He then went into graphic detail about the types of things “cuckold men” do and it was disgusting. He told me about a woman on the dating app who sent him nudes and described them in vulgar detail. I’m nowhere near a prude but hearing him talk like this made me feel ill.

I said I’d better go and he opened the door but said can you give your friend my number? I said ok because I didn’t want to appear rude!!! (What is wrong with me?) and he wrote it on a bit of paper. He said tell her I’m a 7, or an 8 out of 10, that I’m 54 and I’ll travel anywhere. He then asked if I agreed on his score and stared at me with those eyes which creeped me out. I just said I don’t like rating people.

He then repeated that he’s glad I was on the bus as he’d never be able to talk so openly to any young women and wouldn’t go near them or they put in a complaint. He repeated again he only chats like this to women who are WAY over 40 like me 😒

I gave him zero signals that I wanted to talk like this, but I’m a very friendly, chatty, empathic person, and so many men mistake this for flirting.

I got off the bus and haven’t passed on his number and won’t be! It’s upset me so much though and reminded me of things in my past. I’ve been sexually abused by family members, family friends, strangers in the street, a boy at school, an old boss…so many men have invaded me physically and emotionally over the years. It’s me, I give off an invitation I think, and I can’t help myself. I can’t be rude to people and always feel guilty if I try. I have very good listening skills and men seem to read that completely wrong - only ever older men though.

Anyway I cant stop ruminating over all this, so had to try to write it down.

His behaviour was deliberately predatory and frightening – stopping the bus like that in the middle of nowhere was absolutely designed to intimidate you. Pretty sure it would be a a sackable offence. You must report him to his employer, because if he's done it once, he'll do it again, and next time he might not stop at just chatting.

I'm sorry this happened to you. You need to report this to the bus company asap.

Sounds awful, but why did you tell him about your friend's relationship status?

Hearing stories like this makes me glad I have a resting bitch face 🤨 Strangers never engage with me like this.

Really surprised he did this, considering the cctv on buses nowadays.

He should obviously be reported to the bus company because it's unprofessional to speak to passengers like that but I wouldn't call the police. What for? He asked if you were married and you replied. You engaged in conversation with him. I personally would have come downstairs before my stop but I would have sat down and not stood next to him talking about my friend's open marriage.

Still doesn't mean it was okay for him to be creepy and unprofessional towards her.
I understand that to someone with a different upbringing, life experiences, current life circumstances, that OPs behaviour might seem stupid. I do understand that. I personally wouldn't have gone back downstairs. But your entire life in all it uniqueness can lead you to putting up with vile behaviour from a man who you are meant to be in a loving relationship with, putting up with things from a partner that you'd never put up with from a friend, colleague, stranger in the street etc. Social conditioning, and upbringing, and past experiences, as we know can have a dramatic impact on someone's behaviour and choices, and fear is a HELL of an emotion. Never mind the fact that women get killed and assaulted and harassed by men all the time, at alarming rates, and as women we are expected to live our life in society like none of that happens, like the constant threat isnt there. And some people do better than others with shrugging off or ignoring that. So while it can be frustrating to read, we need to understand that fear and societal conditioning are a bloody weird intense combo that can make us do odd-looking things.

What if he doesn't get sacked? The CCTV will show he stopped the bus and went upstairs but will also show OP chatting to the driver and accepting his phone number

Thank you so much to everyone who has replied, I’m so sorry I’m late getting back to the thread. I fell asleep straight after writing it all last night as it had been keeping me awake going over and over it.

I really appreciate all the kind words about what happened and agree that what he did was so unprofessional and not ok. With stopping the bus and coming upstairs- that isn’t usual, I travel this journey several times a week and no driver has ever done this to “check” how many passengers there are. He was clearly looking for me and wanted to get me to come downstairs.

On the other hand, I do take on board the comments saying that I went along with it. Yes I agree that the fawning response was a huge part of this because he held all the power here and I was genuinely scared that he might drive us off somewhere or not let me off. There’s no doubt though that I made this worse though by giving him too many details and engaging in the whole thing too much.

And again that goes back to my passive and eager to please nature, I just can’t help being chatty when I’m anxious or stressed, and I do talk and say too much. It’s an anxiety response and I do it in all situations where I feel socially awkward like at the hairdressers, at supermarket checkouts, in taxis. Anywhere that I don’t know the person and feel I need to be polite to them, that I “owe” them a conversation.

So I need to do some serious self esteem work and manage this better.
I do already have counselling weekly so am going to talk this through at my session this week about how to go about reporting him. That may be no big deal to most people but I feel awful doing it, and am worried as it’ll be so obvious it was me! And I have to carry on getting this bus, it’s not like it was a one off.

Sounds awful, but why did you tell him about your friend's relationship status?

This. This wasn't about safety This was about poor boundaries and people.plasong tendencies.

Again, no one is denying that his behaviour was shocking, unprofessional.and should be reported. But the OP made a judgement error in going to talk to him and initiating a conversation. A few well timed neutral responses was all that was needed once she found herself.in that situation. She didn't need to share personal.info about her friend.

That was his green light to continue a conversation of that nature.

She feel uncomfortable now because of the oversharing.

Ha yes, I know what you mean. I must have the opposite I think, as people constantly seem to want to talk to me everywhere. I actually do try to look unapproachable sometimes to ward them off, I think it’s a vibe I’m giving.
(Love your appropriate username btw!)

I don’t know why I told him about my friend, I think maybe to “prove” that I’m ok with open marriages maybe.

I agree that on CTV it might appear harmless, but it's the stopping in the middle nowhere that will be the red flag for his bosses. If OP tells them she felt scared and went downstairs because she was worried he wasn't going to let her off at her stop, and that she only took his number to get him to open the doors – which he wasn't doing, and the CCTV will show that – they'd have to take it seriously.

I’d be very surprised if the bus company was ok with this.

His behaviour was very manipulative-
stopping and going upstairs in an isolated area
telling her he liked that she was open minded and wouldn’t report him like those silly youngsters might
negging…

masterclass

Many women are effectively groomed by society to appease- play nice, be kind, don’t think the worst of people, and the best one- it’s your fault you… went downstairs/told him about your friend/have a kind face/ give off vibes etc.

Oh, and round of applause for all those women who would never be in this situation because they are so clued up and streetwise and put up with no crap. That’s nice for you. Not everyone had the opportunity to develop those skills

You have serious boundary issues and I'm worried about how you describe having no choice but to fawn in terrifying situations.

Please, PLEASE go find a trauma based psychotherapist ASAP to get to bottom of those so you can be direct, firm and in control. This could have ended really badly for you, OP. I'm so sorry for your ordeal.

Tbh this is why I never want to go out anywhere on my own anymore.

Report to the bus company asap. There will still be CCTV footage to back up your story.

When I said about zero signals, I meant about how graphic it all got. All the things I said were not detailed, not explicit, I didn’t mention the word ‘sex’ once, nor reacted excitedly when he did. He was talking to me as if I was also getting into that same detail, it’s hard to explain. In my life when it’s consensual that other men have talked that way to me, I’ve generally also matched that conversation because we’ve either been on a date, or flirting etc
Im talking about before I was married or the 2 years when my husband and I temporarily separated a few years ago.

To me, that type of talk is intimate and graphic, and there’s appropriate times and settings for it. I had really tried I thought to keep it on a very platonic level with this guy. Yes I was the one who went down and chatted and yes I was very lively and talkative, but that doesn’t mean I was explicit sexually. Hope this makes sense.

Thanks so much, I do see an amazing counsellor every week but maybe need to see someone who specialises in this subject now.

Agree, my boundaries are way off. I was first abused aged 8 and it’s just continued on and off from there, and it’s skewed my perspective on everything. All my life and every day, I’m constantly fighting off men who are more powerful than me and who have their own messed up boundaries about what is ok regarding how to treat women.

It’s been exhausting and continues to be.

@Emptycups please please please report this creepy behaviour to the company.

It’s inappropriate and other women may feel coerced to go further with it out of fear/intimidation.

I’ve had to do similar many years ago and someone was dismissed because of it.

they have cameras and all sorts now that may back up your claim.

You pretty much summed it up yes 😕 Very annoyed at myself but I’m trying to take something from this, and finding my voice to tell people “No thanks!” to a chat and not feel guilty.

Complain. Your body knows he was a threat to your safety, that's why you're so messed up over it.

Never sit upstairs on a bus when you're alone.

If you think this bus driver’s behaviour was normal and appropriate whilst he’s at his work place then you’re delusional

OP. Call the non emergency number for the police and report him. Google the bus company and follow the instructions for how to contact them. Say you were sexually harassed and detained against your will by one of their drivers. If it helps use your original post to either read out or adapt in writing.

Your therapist (if they’re competent) won’t tell you if you should or shouldn’t report. I know you’re doubting yourself now, and most of us would be after the way some have spoken on here.

There is no need to wait. It is a fact that you were sexually harassed and that he will do it again. Tell on him.

He stopped the bus and came up stairs...

I myself would have gone downstairs after that, as I wouldn't want to be trapped upstairs if he had stopped the bus again.

I would have more chance of getting off the bus and making a run for it, if I was downstairs and I would have pacified him with chat.

FYI, there is a button right by the doors you can press to open them and get off, the driver doesn't have to do it.

I can totally see why you acted like you did, so please don't listen to those telling you, you were wrong.

When traveling on public transport I have found earphones very effective for not getting into conversations with people. I would carry some with you and use them . Avoid eye contact and get up and move if something or somebody makes you feel uncomfortable. I think you care way too much about what other people think . All strangers deserve from you is basic courtesy and that's it . Think of yourself more O/P .