Page 5 | Am I being gas lit, or am I crazy?

Wormworld7 · 2024-04-02T21:49:10+00:00

A few nights ago I got into a very petty disagreement with my partner. It probably doesn't matter the topic, so I won't get into it, this happens often and always over very little petty things. He gets angry and frustrated very quickly into a conflict. He has no patience to listen to why I'm upset and instead dismisses me, tells me I'm argumentative or ruining his evening/week because I want to have a healthy conversation about whatever it is. He tells me I should get over it, calls me pathetic and I need to learn how to move on. He then gives me silent treatment until I try to talk.about it again, where we repeat the same cycle - he will say things like "You're still going on about that", "why can't you jist drop things", "I'm so done with this", "you ruin my life" and it quickly becomes him saying he's done with me, I should leave, I'm awful to be around etc. Then once we're at loggerheads, everything around the house is 10x more of a problem and I swear he actually becomes a nasty bully. Calling me lazy, jist generally being not very nice. Is it normal to expect a man to be able to want to work things out after conflict? Is it reasonable to expect at some point we would have to have a conversation about whatever happened, no matter how petty, if i feel unheard should I fight to be heard/seen? Am I pathetic for not just dropping "petty" things, when I have feelings I need to express?!

Original poster

Wormworld7 · 05/04/2024 12:47

EveningSpread · 05/04/2024 12:27

Are you the partner? If not I think you’ve missed the point.

He was in fact being objectionable because he was asked to do a simple thing like close the blind - and told the OP they were being pathetic! This is him creating a drama, then refusing to acknowledge it and accusing the OP of creating drama instead. Followed by stonewalling, which is abuse. A vicious and horrible cycle.

In any case, who wants a partner where you can’t even say “could you close the blind, love?” Without them denying it’s open and calling you pathetic! What a load of nonsense he’s causing!

Show quote history

Thank you so much for this. These type of comments are exhausting. They do sound like they're coming from DH 😂😂 thankfully, the supportive responses ive had here have helped me to understand I'm not going mad.

OP posts:

Original poster

Wormworld7 · 05/04/2024 12:49

PoochiesPinkEars · 05/04/2024 07:47

If my DH is annoyed about something, he'll just tell me without anger because he is able to be calm when annoyed.
If I feel my DH has done something wrong I can bring that up with him and he listens and if I've got a point he'll take it on board and make amends / aim not to do it again because our respect is mutual and we both believe neither of us is above criticism.
If emotions are tense in a situation (maybe we're running late and the kids are playing up, whatever), my DH (and me) will do things which reduce the tension like suggest one of us leaves the room to get some space and come back feeling calmer, or cracks a joke and gets us all laughing etc because he has self control and awareness over his emotions and can choose behaviour that makes it less likely he'll get to snapping point.
If my DH loses his temper (rare for the above reasons), he'll calm himself down then come back and won't blame others. We'll chat about what happened, and whoever needs to say sorry will say sorry and all be friends again because he can take responsibility for his own outbursts and his ego can cope with giving an apology and he's happy to let people know they've upset him in a calm way.

My DH is not unusual.

Your DH is ruled by his emotions (anger, irritation, frustration, resentment etc etc) and sees all of his emotional discomfort as being someone else's fault and sees no issue with inflicting that pov in the form of anger and insults and bad language on the people who are, for him, the most important people in the world.

That's a him problem.

We don't know if you nitpick a bit, but even if you do, it doesn't change the above and doesn't deserve the level of vitriol you are getting. At most it might warrant a bit of a chat.

Thank you. It's so nice to hear that men our there do coexist alongside emotional intelligence. It's all I long for, this level of mutual respect and understanding.

OP posts:

Original poster

Wormworld7 · 05/04/2024 12:53

RandomForest · 05/04/2024 02:56

Sounds like a power struggle.

Have you not encounted anything like this before with any previous relationships, with your daughter's father for example ? If you havn't you've been quite lucky.

Years ago this would have been called meeting your match but really it's abusive behaviour but you also sound like you want your own way. Usually these relationships only last if one party backs down, you won't and he certainly won't so you have a stalemate.

It will get worse overtime, the disagreements can be over the most trivial of things, choices made whether it be wallpaper, new cars, furnishings etc, all will lead to him shutting down conversations until he wins. He will wear you down to the point whereby you will not care anymore for the fight and let him have his own way, that is how many women survive.

Your relationship has come under pressure due to the baby, it would be the same if you age and get ill, they don't want to give, they take.
He clearly doesn't mind losing the connection, which is what happens, the stonewalling happens more often, and for a longer duration, it's a form of torture, you trying to communicate to keep the connection going and ultimately he doesn't give a shit, he needs to win.

He won't improve, I've never known someone who uses this abusive tactic to stop, they just move on, unpeturbed by losing you until it's too late.
It's pointless really you may as well live with a brick for all the logical communication you need to keep a respectful relationship going, it's weird really as they can be so loving these men but only if they get their own way all the time.

But that's not love.

You will have to let go for your own sanity and your daughter's.

My daughters father was an absolute mess of a man. He was abusive in a more obvious way, and I left when she was under 2, and never looked back. He didn't have the intelligence to twist things to make me feel like I was in the wrong. Whereas, in my current relationship I have myself questioning my sanity. He will tell me I'm raising my voice, which I'm certain I'm not, and in fact, he is raising his voice!! I wish there were cameras in the house sometimes just to check myself and confirm I'm not going insane

OP posts:

Original poster

Wormworld7 · 05/04/2024 12:58

EveningSpread · 05/04/2024 10:16

Sadly, I think men like this know exactly what they’re doing and it’s a form of control.

My ex used to stonewall me, then sidle up to me one afternoon and put a bar of chocolate next to me and walk away. Like that was meant to make everything better. I thought, “I don’t want chocolate, I want ordinary, adult, human communication.” Very occasionally after days of tension he would apologise. But rarely.

I still don’t understand where they get the brass neck to treat people like this. I’d feel dreadful if I stonewalled someone, or told them they were pathetic. I’d have no respect for myself. But the longer these men get away with it, and we try to appease or mend, the more confident they get.

OP, sadly it’s common for abuse to start or get worse during pregnancy or when you have a child - when they think you’re trapped with them, so they can treat you how they want.

The practicalities are always the toughest part - the thought of leaving your home, and where you’ll go.

I took the first opportunity that came along to move out temporarily, and in the few weeks I had there I put all the wheels in motion for us to live separately.

It was awful and I missed my home dreadfully to begin with. I was braced for feeling unhappy and unsettled for a long time as I got a new life together.

In reality, l couldn’t believe how quickly life was better without him!

Yes, because I'm not accepting his attempts to apologise and move on, without fully facing what this really is at its core, he's behaving passive aggressively constantly. He's saying things like "what do you me to be on me knees with flowers and beg?" Whcih confuses me so much. I'm pretty clear on what I want - recognise this as abuse and be willing to make drastic changes, or go.

As it currently stands he is staying at his mums. After trying to play games all week and tell me I need to move out his mum put him in his place and told him that's very selfish and not considering the baby. He's come in this afternoon to pick up the baby for a few hours, spoken to me like shit because I'm not accepting his apology, told me "if this is the life you want to live". Essentially treated me worse with every passing encounter. And wants my forgiveness without actually having to acknowledge what he's sorry for.

I don't know where this ends but he's still talking about blinds and how pathetic I am 😅🙈

OP posts:

Mamette · 05/04/2024 16:32

notnowmarmaduke · 04/04/2024 21:51

this issue was invented by people who wanted to sell black out blinds that velcro all around the window 😂

Show quote history

That’s right lovie 👍👍👍

MsRosley · 06/04/2024 09:41

I completely understand your upset and frustration, OP. My DH is very similar. He used to walk out of the room or tell me the conversation was closed the moment I wanted to discuss anything he didn't. Unfortunately for him I'm not someone who will be pushed around, so I'd just follow him out and insist we discuss whatever it was.

He has now learned that trying to shut me down always escalates and prolongs the argument, but he still reflexively uses other forms of control. One of his favourites is to constantly contradict anything I say, which often leads to him looking extremely foolish given it's quite easy to prove he's wrong a lot of the time. Not that it stops him doing it again. The most maddening is the gaslighting, where he denies saying something he said moments earlier, or pretends he told me something he didn't. He does it reflexively to keep himself in the right.

Basically he wants to do everything to please himself without ever taking into account what I might want, and reacts badly when forced to acknowledge I exist and might have my own needs or opinions. I should have walked away years ago.

WeekendFreedom · 06/04/2024 10:01

Wormworld7 · 02/04/2024 23:04

Okay so the argument wasn't really about the thing that was petty. It was about some frigging blinds ffs lol. I asked him to shut them and he insisted they were fully closed when they weren't. He got up and did it, huffing and puffing it didn't make a difference and I tried to explain to him how they let light in in the morning when they're like that, and wake me and our baby. It wasn't about that, it was how he handled it. He jist got aggressive and angry and dismissive before I even had a chance. He kept just repeating it made no difference and calling me pathetic.

Show quote history

That does sound petty from both sides. Why didn’t you get up and close them if he was doing it wrong?

NeurodivergentBurnout · 06/04/2024 10:34

Wormworld7 · 05/04/2024 12:58

Yes, because I'm not accepting his attempts to apologise and move on, without fully facing what this really is at its core, he's behaving passive aggressively constantly. He's saying things like "what do you me to be on me knees with flowers and beg?" Whcih confuses me so much. I'm pretty clear on what I want - recognise this as abuse and be willing to make drastic changes, or go.

As it currently stands he is staying at his mums. After trying to play games all week and tell me I need to move out his mum put him in his place and told him that's very selfish and not considering the baby. He's come in this afternoon to pick up the baby for a few hours, spoken to me like shit because I'm not accepting his apology, told me "if this is the life you want to live". Essentially treated me worse with every passing encounter. And wants my forgiveness without actually having to acknowledge what he's sorry for.

I don't know where this ends but he's still talking about blinds and how pathetic I am 😅🙈

Show quote history

Abusers don’t tend to admit they are abusive, unless it’s gloating, say ‘Ha ha look what I did/made you do’. My XH would never think he’s abusive. I asked him to do a communication course for men during our ‘trial separation’ and he did one session then refused to go again because ‘it was for abusive men and I don’t fit in that category’.
I wouldn’t expect him to apologise or to change. Only you can change your circumstances.

Comtesse · 06/04/2024 10:40

WeekendFreedom · 06/04/2024 10:01

That does sound petty from both sides. Why didn’t you get up and close them if he was doing it wrong?

Show quote history

Because this is weaponised incompetence. “Can you shut the blinds please” is a very reasonable request. If my curtains are not shut properly I wake up early, so yes I want them shut properly, thank you very much.

RandomForest · 06/04/2024 11:24

Moody, Mardy, Sulky bastards.

Ladies get rid of all of them.

It's not acceptable.

EveningSpread · 06/04/2024 12:29

I’m sorry he’s still not willing to address the real issues OP, and while it’s good you’re having some space from him & his mum has backed you up, in my experience these aren’t capable of change, or even admitting what they’re doing.

The denial, the stonewalling, the gaslighting, the rudeness and abuse - it’s a very carefully constructed fortress. That fortress protects them from ever having to look inward, at themselves. To acknowledge that this is even happening - let alone that it’s intentional, considered behaviour designed to control you - would require them to break down that fortress.

That fortress conceals insecurity, a lack of self worth and self respect, and quite possibly hatred of women. People who put you down and call you pathetic, or try to make you preoccupied with their feelings, or sad or insecure, are often doing so because they can’t make themselves feel any better so want to bring you down to their level.

They will only pretend to want to change when you leave. And then - when all your love and respect for them is gone - they’ll then promise the earth, but it won’t be genuine.

Imagine a man who wants you to be comfortable, and happy. Who respects you and listens to you. Who treats you like they like you instead of with disdain. This should really the bare minimum requirement for a relationship. It’s so shit that so many women accept less.

MsRosley · 06/04/2024 19:33

EveningSpread · 06/04/2024 12:29

I’m sorry he’s still not willing to address the real issues OP, and while it’s good you’re having some space from him & his mum has backed you up, in my experience these aren’t capable of change, or even admitting what they’re doing.

The denial, the stonewalling, the gaslighting, the rudeness and abuse - it’s a very carefully constructed fortress. That fortress protects them from ever having to look inward, at themselves. To acknowledge that this is even happening - let alone that it’s intentional, considered behaviour designed to control you - would require them to break down that fortress.

That fortress conceals insecurity, a lack of self worth and self respect, and quite possibly hatred of women. People who put you down and call you pathetic, or try to make you preoccupied with their feelings, or sad or insecure, are often doing so because they can’t make themselves feel any better so want to bring you down to their level.

They will only pretend to want to change when you leave. And then - when all your love and respect for them is gone - they’ll then promise the earth, but it won’t be genuine.

Imagine a man who wants you to be comfortable, and happy. Who respects you and listens to you. Who treats you like they like you instead of with disdain. This should really the bare minimum requirement for a relationship. It’s so shit that so many women accept less.

Thank you for this, @EveningSpread - brilliantly put.

Original poster

Wormworld7 · 07/04/2024 20:35

EveningSpread · 06/04/2024 12:29

I’m sorry he’s still not willing to address the real issues OP, and while it’s good you’re having some space from him & his mum has backed you up, in my experience these aren’t capable of change, or even admitting what they’re doing.

The denial, the stonewalling, the gaslighting, the rudeness and abuse - it’s a very carefully constructed fortress. That fortress protects them from ever having to look inward, at themselves. To acknowledge that this is even happening - let alone that it’s intentional, considered behaviour designed to control you - would require them to break down that fortress.

That fortress conceals insecurity, a lack of self worth and self respect, and quite possibly hatred of women. People who put you down and call you pathetic, or try to make you preoccupied with their feelings, or sad or insecure, are often doing so because they can’t make themselves feel any better so want to bring you down to their level.

They will only pretend to want to change when you leave. And then - when all your love and respect for them is gone - they’ll then promise the earth, but it won’t be genuine.

Imagine a man who wants you to be comfortable, and happy. Who respects you and listens to you. Who treats you like they like you instead of with disdain. This should really the bare minimum requirement for a relationship. It’s so shit that so many women accept less.

This was everything I needed to read right now, thank you

OP posts:

PoochiesPinkEars · 07/04/2024 21:32

And... It is infinitely easier to drag someone down than it is to pull someone up, so you're always on the losing side if that's what you're trying to do! 🙁

EveningSpread · 13/04/2024 11:39

How are you OP? Have you managed to have any useful dialogue since he’s been at his mum’s?

Original poster

Wormworld7 · 13/04/2024 21:07

EveningSpread · 13/04/2024 11:39

How are you OP? Have you managed to have any useful dialogue since he’s been at his mum’s?

Hey! Thank you for checking in. The stand off went for 2 whole weeks before he started to break through, and yes, we started to have some useful dialogue. During which time he started a new job, which included training for understanding and recognising abuse, whereby stonewalling and gas lighting was highlighted, and he genuinely learned of the consequences of his actions. He also spoke to several family members, who were able to advise him on what he needs to work on, and call his behaviour out as unacceptable.

Actually, I started to make this campaign not only about myself, but also about how he treats/has treated his mum. She is mother to 4 sons, 0 daughters and the husband is also verbally abusive to her. It's all learned behaviour. His brother told him that he cannot talk to me the way he talks to his mum. I corrected that, and said start with your mum. If you cannot show the highest respect to the woman who brought you into this world, then I stand no chance.

I also pointed out that as a son who would "do anything for his mother", it should be his duty to stand up to his father when.he sees abuse, and call it out. They are a family so desensitised to how they treat this woman, that I've witnessed way too much of it myself.

And so yes, we are in talks. I'm still feeling lots of feelings, hurt and betrayed. But I think we can work things out as long as he keeps this willingness to change and this understanding. It is conditional on my end and we are yet to follow up with all of the conditions, but therapy is one of them. And actively learning about emotions, psychology and relationships will be another.

Thank you to everyone who commented. This thread genuinely gave me so much strength not to let go of my self worth.

OP posts:

EveningSpread · 13/04/2024 21:43

Fantastic that that training at work came up at exactly the right time! And well done for not breaking during the stand off - 2 weeks is tough going!

I’ve got my fingers crossed for you that everything improves. You know what acceptable behaviour is and isn’t - don’t doubt yourself in future! - and I hope he starts treating you with respect.

PoochiesPinkEars · 13/04/2024 22:53

Blimey! The scales have fallen from his eyes!? Wow.
Wasn't expecting that update. That's so rare!!

Delighted for you that there is a glimmer of hope, a long road to walk yet of course before you can start to feel confidence as well as hope... But if you think you can forgive and hold your line while he unlearns all this toxicity and starts to do better then all credit to you and him for giving it a decent try.

I hope he appreciates his chance and doesn't squander it.

Original poster

Wormworld7 · 14/04/2024 09:00

EveningSpread · 13/04/2024 21:43

Fantastic that that training at work came up at exactly the right time! And well done for not breaking during the stand off - 2 weeks is tough going!

I’ve got my fingers crossed for you that everything improves. You know what acceptable behaviour is and isn’t - don’t doubt yourself in future! - and I hope he starts treating you with respect.

Yes! I dont believe in coincidences and have faith that divine timing played its role there. 2 weeks was tough, it was torture not knowing what the future would entail. Glad to be in a place of clarity now, thank you for your kind wishes, I've come this far and I certainly won't let the standards slip again!

OP posts:

Original poster

Wormworld7 · 14/04/2024 09:04

PoochiesPinkEars · 13/04/2024 22:53

Blimey! The scales have fallen from his eyes!? Wow.
Wasn't expecting that update. That's so rare!!

Delighted for you that there is a glimmer of hope, a long road to walk yet of course before you can start to feel confidence as well as hope... But if you think you can forgive and hold your line while he unlearns all this toxicity and starts to do better then all credit to you and him for giving it a decent try.

I hope he appreciates his chance and doesn't squander it.

Thank you. I kniw the journey ahead will not be easy nor quick. But I am sure that this man is worth it. I am not without my.own faults and I do not want to be stuck in a lifetime of going backwards, but a future full of growth, change and evolution.

I have made the conditions to us working things out very clear, and we have much more to talk through. I will stay in this place of courage and continue to hold him accountable until he can recognise these patterns within himself without prompt.

OP posts: