Not 'bad-mouthing' your ex to the children

[WinterDeWinter]

This is considered to be a universal rule for helping the children cope with a divorce.

But I'm really interested to know from people whose own parents divorced whether it really is the case that you should never say anything to the children which might appear to be critical of your former spouse.

Obviously it's very age-dependent - but i wonder whether sometimes if there is no sense of cause and effect, nothing makes sense to the children.

My own late childhood was spent desperately wishing my mother would protect us by leaving my domineering father.

I knew he was a shit, and if she had left him and then said 'mummy and daddy couldn't make it work, but he's a great guy' I would have lost even more faith in her. She would effectively have been gaslighting me.

I can see that if they truly were simply incompatible then that would be different. But Mumsnet shows us every day, I think, that many / most men do not put nearly as much in to family life as women do. When the relationship finally breaks down, is it really in the interest of the children - or ultimately likely to lead to social change, so that our own children don't repeat this pattern - to pretend that it wasn't the case?

Not interested in Not All Men Are Like That, at all - I have eyes 😂- but very interested in hearing from MNers whose parents divorced where one party was clearly more at fault than the other, and what their experience was.

My mum slagged my father off constantly and it was absolutely awful, I really wish she hadn't.

I really want to tell my son the truth about his last semi abusive dad but i don't want him growing up feeling insecure so I resist.

@CatCatCatCatCatCat I can imagine that was awful, because she was using you to offload emotions that she couldn't cope with.

But - assuming that your dad had actually behaved badly - what if she'd been frank with you, once only, about why they had separated - would that also have felt awful?

But why will it make him feel insecure to know the truth?

And what if he knows the truth in some part of him, and experiences your silence as being lied to?

When my mum and dad split they just didn’t really talk about each other to us at all. They were polite to each other in our presence and if we brought up the other parent then it would be acknowledged but no comment made.

My mum said to us as adults (dad isn’t with us now) that although he was t good to her as a husband, which he admitted, he was always a good father to us.

ive always admired how they handled it all.

This is a very tough one and personally I've found it impossible to keep my mouth completely shut with my eldest child. My younger one I've said very little as they're too young to understand.

My own parents are together so can't comment on it from a child's pov.

I guess I'd say proceed with caution as once it's said it can't be undone.

It's very hard and messy and complicated. Not to mention unfair.

My parents divorced when i was 8 and they never bitched about each other, obviously at some point we learned that our dad was a knob and had affairs but my mother let us find out how useless he was on our own.
None of us hate our mum for not telling us when we were kids. Don't make your kids pick sides!

Not my parents but my ex & I split & he was clearly more at fault - aggressive, argumentative, unsupportive, wanting to be top dog, make all the decisions etc. I’d warned for years that I have a breaking point.

I don’t bad mouth him to my DD but as she grows older, I will be completely honest if asked (in a factual way) about the reasons we split. Imo, no good can come of trying to gloss over it. They’re not stupid, they can clearly see who’s who & to not be honest would make me look flaky. There’s a difference between being bitter & badmouthing and being honest.

Nope wasn't just that, she told me he was her stalker and use to refer to him as that including to strangers, she also use to refer to me and my brother as G's kids (as she had kids with another man but didn't refer to them as his names kids it was just a way to segregate us) she told me things no kid ever really needs to know

Ah, I'm sorry she did that to you. It sounds like there was a lot more going on there than the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Yes, I think this is what I'd do in that situation.

Sometimes you need to have reality confirmed or you feel like you're going nuts - and I think that goes for older children (maybe pre-teen up) as well as adults.

There's space to explain mitigating factors etc - but I think I feel that often silence is denial and denial isn't good for anyone.

My dad was very much the problem, not my mum. She handled it well I feel. She was quite scrupulous about not bad-mouthing him growing up. This was important because I still have half his genes so bad-mouthing him would have felt like she was indirectly saying the same about me.

However, when I was a teenager she did start sharing more with me about what had happened. For example, I was worrying about the possibility of getting married to someone and not knowing it would be bad (like it was for them). She told me that deep down she knew it was bad at the time. I found that enormously helpful and after that, trusted my gut instinct about men. Later still she told me about his abuse. Again, important and helpful for me to know when I was trying to make sense of his unacceptable behaviour myself. She did this factually and neutrally, rather than calling him name and bad-mouthing him in that respect. I was no contact with him for several years after a particular incident thst was the last straw and am now very low contact on my terms.

So, no name-calling, remember this will make children feel bad about half of themselves. But age-appropriate facts when relevant and able to handle it can be helpful.

They have to work it out for themselves, although it is fine to answer questions honestly if they are older teens. But when they are younger it is best to say very little. I have friends who would swear they are being careful with what they say but I see the hurt their words cause their children. I think there is a wish to punish the ex by making their children see him for what he is, but the only one harmed is the child.

I was advised to be careful slagging off my sons dad to him, as he is genetically 50% his dad, so they will feel its a slight on them as they will identify parts of themselves with both parents.
I've not always managed it, but I want my son to make his own mind up about his dad. As he gets older and asks questions I will try and be honest, but there are definitely some things I will protect him from.

I was a huge daddies girl. My mum despised him, he treated her badly and hit her about. He was a shit dad too. She always slagged him off. At the time I loved my dad and didn’t see him for what he was so it hurt greatly because I didn’t want to believe it. Growing up I know her words were true.

SM now and we don’t slag off the mum in front of the kids she does tho 🤦🏼‍♀️ we don’t slag her off but if the kids say something factually incorrect we correct them without being a dick to her (even tho she is) eg, OH eldest made a comment about how daddy never paid for anything when he was with mummy. Too young for this to be his own view. I questioned it. Oh really, what makes you say that? It’s what mummy says. Ok so do you think daddy went to work full time and kept all his money to himself? No. Ok so he did pay for things when he was with mummy. Yea I guess so.

i guess because of what my mum was like even though true, I don’t want to do it to them. They’ll make their own minds up.

I have never bad-mouthed and never will. He's still their father, and some of their identity will be caught up in who he was, rightly or wrongly.

I didn't volunteer any information as to why we divorced, but as late teens the DCs asked me, indpendently, why. I was truthful about the reasons, but as facts, without bitterness. Didn't go into the awful details, but told them if after thinking about it they had more questions, to come back to me. They never have.

I have tried my very hardest not to bad mouth my ex to my dc. He left when they were 4 and 7...now 15 and 18! He cheated on me multiple times.
Ds (18) has just got his first real girlfriend and I said the first negative thing which was 'promise me if you don't want to be with her anymore just tell her don't cheat on her' to which Ds replied 'I won't' and I said 'I know you think you won't but it's in your genes you might'
Other than that comment I think I have managed well.

He's 6. He's got time to work it out

I think there can be a half way approach between 'he's a great guy' and 'he's a total dick'

You can just remain fairly neutral, tell the kids things that are factual like 'he likes football/spicy food' and if they ask questions answer as neutrally as possible until they're old enough to understand.

I know one mum who seemed to spend an awful lot of time slagging off their ex to anyone who would care to listen including her kids. It was really awkward to be honest as the man concerned was still very much part of our social circle. We tried very hard to remain friends with both parties but it just became exhausting listening to her trash talk her ex (our friend) all the time. She also did this in front of her kids. This went on like this for years while in contrast he never said a bad word about her. His crime was to end what was clearly a very unhappy relationship, he was not a drug user, alcoholic, gambler, physically or emotionally abuse but a very engaged dad. The kids are in their late teens now and have chosen to spend most of their time with their father and seem to have a very good relationship. It was just sad watching the levels of vitriol over the years and the complete inability to move on.

My dad had an affair, but he was otherwise a good dad. My mum never badmouthed him and encouraged our relationship.

Even with her doing this, I felt guilty at times for being close to him. If she had badmouthed him, it would have been awful for me growing up. I'm grateful that she chose to put me ahead of her own feelings.

I think it would have been different if he had been abusive or was always letting us down though. In that scenario I think it's more important to tell children that their is an issue with their dad, not something wrong with them.

I knew why my parents were not suited to be married, and why they ever thought it was a good idea will always be a mystery to everyone they still never even bad mouthed each other to me, divorced when I wad little.

They still do things for each other and their current partners but no animosity

I don't slag him off but I don't make excuses for his flaky behaviour any more. As above there is a difference between bad mouthing and being honest and I don't want her to ignore shitty behaviour from men when she's older having learned to at my knee.

I don't actively slag him off though.

I don't 'trash talk' my ex, but I also don't lie about him/talk him up - the kids (late primary/early teens) know their father, there's no point me making excuses for behaviour they've seen their entire lives, or setting their expectations too high.

Eg. if they get some wildly unsuitable Christmas present, we'll just say 'ah well, he can be a bit thoughtless sometimes huh' and carry on with our day. They know he doesn't put much effort in, so making up some elaborate excuse wouldn't be believable anyway. What I don't do is say this with disgust or judgement on my face - it's just a throwaway thing that moves the conversation on. Nothing for them to feel bad about, or think any deeper on.

This approach seems to have worked - they've sailed through the split (touch wood), carrying on exactly as before (he didn't bother much before either), unconcerned whether he's seeing them once a fortnight, or if he goes incommunicado for a couple of months. He's there, he's their dad, but they don't feel any dependency on him if that makes sense.

All lve said to my dc is that we were both at fault.

There have been some issues with his behaviour since we split but they have eyes, they can see for themselves. That said, like another poster lve found it hard to keep my mouth completely shut.

Any comments need to be factual and kept to a minimum. They don't want to listen to us slagging the other one off all the time.