Wife and colleague - just friends or...

[Tktktk]

My wife and I (both 42) have been married for 16 years and are very close to each other. We trust each other fully. We both work in a large multi national company, albeit in totally different departments and are based at different sites.

She has a male colleague, let's call him Jim, who she is good friends with. They used to work together a few years ago but she's moved to a different team now. They still regularly meet up for coffee during /after work. They also go out for dinner regularly, but with a wider group and never alone. Jim is much older (55) and married.

I noticed that Jim always reacts to her solo photos on Facebook with a ♥️ but if anyone else is in the pic, he only uses 👍. I discussed this with my wife and also read through Jim's messages to her on Facebook Messenger. Here's a summary of what he said

• I'm always there for you no matter what
• I think of you often
• I missed you (when she was off sick)
• Can you meet me for coffee
• More coffee
• It was really nice to meet you yesterday
• Let's plan dinner

I felt that Jim's behaviour was creepy and inappropriate, and that these messages could easily lead a less trusting husband to take drastic action.

My wife thinks I'm over thinking and Jim's just a nice guy and a good friend. I know that outside of work and dinners with the group from work, she rarely nteracts with Jim, although I can't be sure as I don't have access to her work phone. We haven't fought or argued about it at all, just a conversation so far.

She usually works from home but goes to work once a week. Often she returns home later than she should and I'm left with having to manage our kids and preparing dinner. When I ask her what kept her, she says that she got stopped by people and gut busy in conversation, but I'm pretty positive that some of these occasions are her having coffee with Jim. I have seen at least one message confirming this.

What are your thoughts?

Is Jim just a nice guy and I'm over thinking it?
Or is he a creep, but my wife doesn't see it?
Is this the start of an emotional affair?

It's absolutely killing me knowing all this.

I wouldn't be happy about it either in your shoes.
You would get a totally different response if you were a woman posting, check his phone, emails, social media. Get the proverbial ducks in a row then ltb.
Such are the double standards on MN.

Perhaps engage in the points people are making and not ones you want them to be making so you can feel “right.” If women’s preferences are already stated then your weird demand for evidence of women’s desire being reciprocal the men’s preferences is very odd, perhaps you are thinking of some “new” type of “women” than some seem so keen to invent these days.

@Coldrains said: “women usually prefer older men.”
You dispute this, but then concede it, then try and establish a arbitrary "significant" standard.

Your choice of declaring 13 years to be “significant” is meaningless. The older you get the more tolerable an ideal age gap is from your ideal. If we were talking about an 18 year old 13 years would be significant but once you are in your 40s and 50s, it isn’t seen as a big deal. By the time you are 65 people don’t really notice. All my life I have know couples where there have been 10-15 year age gaps (in both directions) normally formed above the age of 40 when earlier marriages have ended.

OP has been married for 16 years so he will see the prospect of someone in their 40s with someone in their 50s as “much older” but among those who are single in that age bracket the number doesn’t qualify as “much older” but the persons attitude and demeanour may.

My comment was a direct response and engagement with a poster who stated 'women usually prefer older men' after someone tried to flip the sexes in this scenario to liken the wife's behaviour with her colleague to a man messaging a 29 year old female, which would not be remotely the same.
If a man is messaging a significantly younger women there is a much higher chance he has a motive beyond friendship (because as we agree, men often chase much younger women) than a woman messaging a man 13 years OLDER.
The rationale that it is comparable is based on the idea women 'usually prefer older men' but for this to make sense women would need to 'usually prefer' men a decade or more older, not a mere 2-5 years. Which they simply don't. Whatever some older men's egos may tell them to the contrary.
The OP sees this man as weird and creepy because younger men understand that older men chase younger women. The OP doesn't think his wife reciprocates.
And please don't frame my mild expression of interest in seeing data to prove women prefer men of the age gap pertinent to this discussion as a 'demand' when you suggested there was a graph showing something else entirely. My words are there for all to see, so you make yourself seem foolish trying to twist them.

OP, as many pp's have mentioned you would have got a very different response if you'd been a woman posting.The advice is nearly always to dig deeper, check phone messages, socials etc. Double standards indeed.
In your shoes l think you're justified in feeling uneasy as it does sound as though Jim has a crush on your wife. l wonder what Jim's wife would think of the heart emojis and 'miss yous' to a younger work colleague? Not happy l'm sure!

If, as you say, your wife really is a poor judge of character you need to address this with her again and ask her how she'd feel if you were to receive that kind of attention from a woman. An honest conversation needs to be had so she can see the bigger picture and take your feelings into consideration.

No one claimed that women’s preferences are in the mirror of men’s preferences. This is simply your strawman. If you have been told what the evidence of general woman’s preferences are, it is odd that you would then suggest anyone is suggesting that there are some “other” women who have a difference trend of preferences.

However, your original point also “makes no sense,” as you put it. You claimed that the valid comparison is for his wife to imagine him messaging a 55 year old. This is obviously not true. She has lied to her husband to avoid saying she is pre-arranging meeting Jim. There is no reason because Jim is a “nice guy” so would she see her husband behaving as Jim does as just being a “nice guy?” Perhaps she would and is certain if her husband started messaging a 29 year old women and meeting up with her. If so then her interpretation of Jim a just being “nice” is just naïve. F however she had issues with her husband behaving that way then she knows Jim’s motivation and also is lying about it.

The mirror comparison is not the only legitimate one. A 45 y/o wife who had worked long hours and socialised with colleagues including a highly promiscuous 25 y/o subordinate would be entitled to at least express concerns if her husband was in the mirror image situation even if the husband though she was unreasonable because they both had the same situation. If she were to come to MN asking for opinions, you would see a very negative reaction to any suggestion she was unreasonable for having any concerns.

"Hi, my Husband Jim seems to be messaging this women 13 years younger at work, he is sometimes late home and says he got caught up, but I have found on social media that he actually pre planned meeting her for coffee after work, some times they go for dinner as part of a group. He likes all her single photos on social media with a heart, but a thumbs up on any others."

Cue the "LTB," "here is how to dig deeper" and "sounds like they are having an affair."

Exact same situation but just who is asking changed.

I tell my friends, who have often been old colleagues, I miss them all the time. We don’t meet up by ourselves because I want to get EVERYONE in during my child-free time. I am super friendly so I often get distracted by a chat, especially when I haven’t had outside in-person adult conversation in a while.

DH knows what I’m like and although it was weird to him at first for me to tell my male and female friends (I’m bi) that I loved them, he got over it really fast. If you’re a jealous person and you’re with me, you’re just not going to sleep at night babes. I would be absolutely mortified if this was going through his head after so long. Going further than that, I would end it because you either trust me or you don’t. I’ve never been tempted to cheat, cheated nor would I ever.

Do you see any similarities in how your wife is?

Sounds like he has a crush on your wife and I would imagine your wife knows this.
Why do you and your wife read each other's messages though, is there a backstory as to why you both feel the need to snoop on each other?

You said that you worry Jim manoeuvring her towards where he wants to go. If you are the first person your wife thinks of and speaks to whenever she has any issues or anything she wants to share, Jim won’t have a chance.
However, she seems to enjoy his attention and compliments.Perhaps take Jim’s actions as a reference to see if there is anything lacking in your relationship.
Do you take compliments and send messages to your wife the way Jim does?
I assume they have half an hour coffee every week.
Do you guys have at least half an hour date/ quality time together every week?
Interact with her on facebook. Keep communicating.
By doing that, you are taking some control in your situation and your relationship gets stronger. At least, if all things go south, she couldn’t pin the blame on you.
If she gets all emotion needs met by you, she wouldn’t need to sort them from someone else like Jim. Unless she is a sloot!

You should honestly kick her out only on the basis of her stupidity. You can’t continue living with someone who is so utterly stupid.
Get a beautiful 30 year old girl and divorce your wife. She doesn’t deserve you and you make her a favour by staying with her.

You are clearly very invested in the idea that women prefer older men. If that offers you some comfort then you are entitled to continue to believe that. We can disagree and each allow our own experience to be our guide. As for the OP, in my response I was clear I thought Jim may well have ulterior motives, as older men so often do. OPs wife may be one of these 42 year old women you think represent women's preferences, and be desperate for the attentions of a 55 year old man. Equally likely she thinks she has a friend who, being so much older, would never presume to more. Women frequently underestimate just how presumptious older men can be, how they genuinely believe they can offer something the much younger husband lacks, and their young 'friend' will be attracted to them. Unless they are exceptional or rich or influential, they are rarely correct.

I'd be hurt if my OH messaged 'I missed you' but I fully appreciate that the context could be just friendly. However, telling her that he thinks of her often - that's a reach too far if they're trying to make out they are just friends. The only way I'd say this to someone is if they are going through a long-term illness or are experiencing some trauma in their life such as bereavement.
I don't think that there is any doubt that his messages can be reasonably read as being situated within the context of this being a friendship now between them that has continued after some sort of sexual/love relationship that occurred between them in the past.
@Tktktk I think you need to look to the past to solve this one - this isn't the start of an emotional relationship; this has history.

@Tktktk I think you need to look to the past to solve this one - this isn't the start of an emotional relationship; this has history

Agree with this, OP.

Look back a bit and do some further checking.

Even if your wife's intentions are innocent, I think Jim's are not.

“You are clearly very invested in the idea that women prefer older men.”
What a weird description.

I believe the evidence that women prefer men 2-5 years older. I also believe peoples “window” of what they consider expands as they age, which is why you find far wider age gaps (in both directions) in people in their 40s, 50s and 60s than you find in those in their 20s and 30s.

Is this an “investment?” If you say so…

You appeared to agree with one of those, not sure if that makes you “invested.” Not sure that is based on your need for comfort too if you bothered it notice the world around you.

Your desire to ascribe view to others, you need to learn to stop straw manning.
“you think represent women's preferences, and be desperate for the attentions of a 55 year old man.”

If only you took your own advice:
“My words are there for all to see, so you make yourself seem foolish trying to twist them.”

If someone raises an issue about how their partner is behaving I tend to look at the circumstances. In this case she is entertaining attention from someone else and lying. There is no need to assume desperation for attention to think that someone should dismiss that because there is an age gap of more than 10 years. If this was a post from Jim’s wife there would be very few people (if any) making that case.

I didn't suggest the OP dismiss it. In my response to the OP I said I thought Jim's behaviour was likely to be inappropriately motivated. Jim doesn't have a wife, but if he did, obviously people would suggest his behaviour towards a women 13 years his junior was suspect, given that (as we agree) men chase young women. I would say exactly the same to Jim's wife as I have to the OP: Jim is likely using 'friendship' in the hopes of more from the OPs wife because men frequently feign friendship with women when they are sexually attracted to them. So if you're looking for 'double standards' you're barking up the wrong tree.

Jim has a wife!

Have I missed something - you suspect she's lying about seeing Jim, but have no proof? Because coming from work late, particularly when only in the office a couple of days a week and you know your DH is at home and can sort the kids, is pretty much par for the course. It's the one time to chit chat with colleagues etc.

Jim may be a bit over invested. Jim may just be an older single man who frankly often oversteps the line because he doesn't know (or want to know) better.

Your wife does not appear to have done anything to encourage or facilitate any emotions he may feel.

Tracking heart emoticons is weird. Even on your own SM posts, x1000 on your wife's.

Well, if a female colleague of my fiancé started sending those sorts of messages, I'd be extremely unhappy. Jim sounds is a whiney little baby with a crush on your wife.

I'm honestly disgusted by the amount of nasty and judgemental comments here. The guy has posted for some advice, not an interrogation and certainly not for misogynistic comments. If this was a women posting for advice it would be completely different, with her being encouraged to snoop and assume the very worst. Instead this guys been called creepy and controlling and the threads been used as a vehicle for others to argue.
Where is the balanced and objective advice, he doesnt need to "kick her out" for goodness sake.
A bit of support would be nice.

Sounds like an emotional affair to me

Very true. Spidey senses and track him would be used if this was a husband

It sounds to me like she moght be seeing jim and pretending otherwise

The default MN responce here is trust your gut.

Spot on.

My question was about Jim's behaviour and not whether I should consider leaving my wife. Apart from her not being honest about having coffee with him, I'm not suspecting infidelity on her behalf, although I worry that she might be getting too emotionally involved.

I just wanted to understand if I was being unreasonable about Jim's behaviour. It's good to get both sides of the story though, no matter how harsh it can be. Gives me a well rounded perspective.

Thanks for your support.

I don't trust Jim. He is fond/predatory of your wife. Your wife might be aware and not interested in Jim, but might be interested in keeping Jim dangling if he is senior and can advance/facilitate her career. I would just watch from afar and try to relax.

BTW, I applaud you for scrutinising emojis etc. The devil is in the detail.

Finally, trust your gut.