March 2024 - But we took you to stately homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' back in December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society

There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be given with warmth and support"

I've also now added the post written by Escapingafter50years as detailed below:

"I've copied these links I posted in the last thread and hope they are useful to people here. In addition to therapy and the Stately Homes, I've found them really useful in getting my head around the toxic mess I grew up in".

Podcasts
Helen Villiers & Katie McKenna – incredibly informative and validating, over 70 free weekly podcasts (these, combined with seeing a therapist, have been transformative for me)
https://uk-podcasts.co.uk/podcast/in-sight-2
 
Videos
Dr Ramani – has been highly recommended here regularly
https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorRamani/videos
 
Instagram
Useful for bite-size snippets which are supportive and help you feel you’re not alone
https://www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
https://www.instagram.com/patrickteahantherapy/
https://www.instagram.com/the.holistic.psychologist/
https://www.instagram.com/gottmaninstitute/
https://www.instagram.com/scapegoatchildrecovery/
 
Facebook
Peg Streep, has written a book called Daughter Detox
https://www.facebook.com/PegStreepauthor
Narcwise, like Instagram, this account has bite size snippets, often very insightful
https://www.facebook.com/narcwise
 
Twitter
Nate Postlethwait
https://twitter.com/nate_postlethwt
Ryan Daigler
https://twitter.com/Ryan_Daigler
 
Websites
Out of the Fog (lots of information & tools on this website)
https://outofthefog.website/
Mary Toolan Scapegoat Child Recovery (was recommended here, there’s a useful free e-book)
https://www.marytoolan.com/
 
Short-read Articles
Psychology Today “Narcissist”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissist&op=Search
Psychology Today “Narcissism”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/archive?search=narcissism&section=All
 
Books
I haven’t read all of these yet, but have read most and would recommend them
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward
Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward
Mothers Who Can’t Love by Susan Forward
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C. Gibson (probably a good first book to read if you're not sure your parent/s is/are narcissistic)
Daughter Detox by Peg Streep
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk
Pulling Your Own Strings by Wayne Dyer (written a long time ago but has good strategies for dealing with people who don't treat you properly)
A couple of other books I have seen recommended by the wise AttilaTheMeerkat and are my to-read list:
Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride and
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

[TheShellBeach]

Checking in.

[tonewbeginnings]

Thank you 🙏 Checking in too.

[Foxyaus]

Hi everyone, checking in, it's a difficult week for me, as my convicted paedophile family member is in court on new charges and my parents are supporting them, which is disgusting and abhorrent to me, my family and the victims who are close relatives to me.
My parents have gone to extremes to support this person and torment the victims by trying to guilt them into falling in line with the family propaganda of a perfect family.
My mother continues to spread blatant lies about myself and my husband, as we have cut contact and will not engage on any level.
It's emotional and exhausting, especially when, as recently happened, I lost a much loved relative, but did not attend the funeral because of my parents inability to behave decently.
They would have made a scene, and had no respect for the occasion.
Easter is coming up, and our former large family gatherings are now impossible. It's very sad.

[Parentalalienation]

Checking in x

[Genuineweddingone]

Checking in. Sadly more drama has ensued and I have been too mentally tired to post but will be back. Hope all ok x

[flapjackfairy]

@Foxyaus
Oh I am so sorry
That sounds absolutely awful to try and deal with. It is indeed v sad
x

[HatchlingDragon]

Checking in for the new thread. @Genuineweddingone I fully understand the being too mentally tired to post.

[junebugalice]

Also checking in. Sorry to hear of the struggles people are dealing with x

[Genuineweddingone]

@HatchlingDragon

Checking in for the new thread. @Genuineweddingone I fully understand the being too mentally tired to post.

I am not even in contact with her and she is causing issues for other people now which directly affect me. She is the gift that keeps on giving, my mother. I will post a long and possibly scathing message about her at the weekend but a few things to get done first. It makes no sense but shes still trying to separate her husband in the nursing home from his adult children by witholding information. Crazy.

[binkie163]

@Foxyaus that is just awful, not sure how your parents justify it to themselves tbh.
@Genuineweddingone
Your mother needs the drama to feed off so she will always cause trouble for someone, she is a nasty piece of work.

[Loubelle70]

Checking in

[Escapingafter50years]

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat , this is such a supportive place.

[Twatalert]

Thank you everyone who replied yesterday. It was such a difficult day but I find so much comfort on this thread every time I return to it. I am still very teary, but I made it to the office and will just be gentle with myself. It certainly is a very hard thing to move past, and today I really feel like I am leaving something behind and am starting a new life. Another new life!

I have started a new life so many times. So many past versions of me no longer exist because I have evolved, healed and grown. So now I am just healing a little bit more.

Against my better judgement I contacted my previous situationship so I am dealing with these emotions as well. The past year has meant so much loss for me. I lost many people or the fantasy of having those people in my life. It's really been a lot so it's only normal for it to take time to move past this.

[Twatalert]

@Foxyaus I'm sorry you have a pedophile relative and I am sorry your parents behave like that. It's in no way justified and unfortunately very telling that your parents support this person.

Please know you are doing the right thing in distancing yourself from this situation and from your parents. It's one of the hardest things to do but you are doing right by you.

[MonkeyfromManchester]

Checking in.

hugs to everyone who has a grim day yesterday. A couple of thoughts

• you are incredible to survive that awful abuse
• they are to blame not you
• i totally agree that the Golden Children, even they deal out crap, are damaged. Totally see that with Mr Monkey’s vile brother
• YOU ALL ARE AMAZING

@Foxyaus
OMG. I’m shocked, but then again not, that they’ve taken this stance. It speaks volumes and blaming the victim?!?

I think as much distance as you can put between them and you the better. Huge hugs.

OK here - just very, very tired. Mr Monkey is having bad dreams. Last nights was three men had broken into the house and he couldn’t find me in the house. My interpretation: three people evokes the Unholy Trinity of The Hag, Twat Brother/GB and Slave Son who all abused him as a child/teenager. Missing me? Attachment issues.

going to have a chilled weekend.

love to all.

xxx

[Parentalalienation]

@Foxyaus that's a horrible situation. My parents are similar with their friends who have been convicted of similar offences. It's all 'oh they wouldn't have realised what they were doing etc etc' and - where it was historic - oh but it was okay back then!!!' Stand firm and know that you are doing the right thing and protecting your family.

@MonkeyfromManchester I agree, Mr Monkey is processing everything in his sleep. I hope it settles soon for both your sakes. Has he had anything like EMDR therapy to work through the repressed memories?

@Twatalert being kind to yourself is the best thing, it's good that you got into work.

@Genuineweddingone completely understand what you mean about not having the energy to post. Gentle hugs to you.

Here, well I'm having a late lunch and a browse before going back to work. I've got a deadline for a paper next week, only 1000 or so words but I'm finding it hard to sit down and write.

[JellyWellyBoots]

Hey guys,

Today my sister messaged me. She wants to go for lunch this weekend. She said she isn't sure why I didn't attend the wake but is sure I had my reasons. She thinks this deathly silence between the two of us is unhealthy.

If I told her the truth and said that the fact she blanked me during the funeral was the final straw, she would come up with an excuse & try to convince me she was just stressed and emotional etc. or say she felt the same, that I blanked her.

What do I say? I just need a break from her. Her behaviour the last 6 months has been diabolical, but she's obvious to it. She's convinced I owe her an apology & to ask for forgiveness because I kicked her out when she had nowhere to go.

My head is in a really awful place at the moment, I've gone a bit south since the funeral. Not coping at all well & constantly tired. Struggling with the most simple of tasks. I've had to distance myself from so many people in the last few months.

[Twatalert]

@JellyWellyBoots I would decline the request for lunch and say you are taking your time to process everything. Alternatively you'll be busy, which is also true.

You do this until you are ready and know how you want to react.

I reasonable person would accept this boundary.

[MonkeyfromManchester]

@JellyWellyBoots she’s trying to get you back under control - avoid.

@Parentalalienation he has. He found it a bit weird. He prefers talking at the moment, but his therapist wants him to try again.

[Parentalalienation]

I agree, @JellyWellyBoots don't go for lunch. She's trying to get you back 'behaving' and under her influence again.
EMDR is weird. It changed me. Mostly for the better. I lost my 'gives a eff' filter. Although that might be menopause. But yes, a rough road even though I was well prepared and supported through it.

[Escapingafter50years]

@JellyWellyBoots I haven't read much of your posts, sorry, but I do sympathise with what you're going through. It may or may not be similar for you, but I found that my default answer for being asking something unreasonable was "Yes", no matter the cost to myself. I was trained all my life to hop, skip and jump as soon as commanded requested. It was never ok for me to say no. (And when I eventually did, I lost all my "mother's" side of the family except 1 person). But that's so completely unreasonable. And it's completely unreasonable for someone to attack you because you say no.

So I wonder if, like me, you have an inbuilt "Yes", and going against that is really hard for you, even though the idea of seeing your sister is so stressful. But it's ok for you to look after you. You don't have to explain. Just tell her you're not up to it at the moment. If she tries the Guilt Trip "what's more important than family", "do you not care about me" etc., just keep repeating you're not up to it at the moment. You're not saying never, you're just saying you can't right now.
You're allowed say no. Look after you.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

No is a complete sentence too. Your sister is trying to hoover you JellyWellyBoots, she’s is trying to pull you back into her dysfunctional world and this lunch is a blatant attempt to do so.

[binkie163]

@JellyWellyBoots
Your sister is right the silence isn't healthy for HER but it is healthy for YOU.
Her behaviour is disgusting and I would just say NO WAY to lunch and laugh, you are on to her manipulation. It has always worked for her and she believes it will again, ignore and block xxx

[LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand]

JellyWellyBoots it'll sound so caring and sensible. Let's meet up. I'm worried about you etc etc
Don't fall for it. She's still the same horrible person. Don't give her reasons. Just tell her No.

[AnnaSewell]

Just saying hello.

I have decided not to make any more phonecalls to my elderly mother. Nor will I go and visit her in her home - I'd been going every couple of months. The only circumstances under which I'd see her again would be if she was severely ill in hospital and/or dying.

It is odd that it has taken me so long to get to this point but after a visit to her on Sunday, something snapped inwardly.. I thought I am not putting myself through this again. I allowed myself to look back and see how she has behaved towards me all my life.

My older brother will probably try and rope me back in, but I think it is time to stand firm. My husband is backing me up and will deal with my brother if necessary. I am (surprise, surprise) characterised within the family as 'difficult'...