Are men like cleaners?

[Superlambaanana]

And obviously the answer is ‘no absolutely not, they’re bone idle around the house’. But hear me out…

I’m single in my 50s after a lifetime of failed romantic relationships with men. Two major, longterm ones, one of which was emotionally abusive and has scarred me greatly. I feel like I have wasted so much time on men to the detriment of living my own life. Yet I still have this hankering to be in a relationship. I have a full life but I come home to an empty house and I hate being the singleton at events with my married friends.

It occurs to me that it’s a bit like wanting to get a cleaner.

It’s ideologically uncomfortable. In theory, Im against it on socialist/ feminist grounds.

But in practice, it’s widely accepted to be the norm. And going with the societal flow usually makes life a lot easier.

But even if I could get over it contradicting with my values, I still can’t get past the knowledge that ultimately I’m going to end up with someone who made me happy at first, but will inevitably make me miserable and I’ll be stuck with them because getting out of arrangements like these is always difficult, painfully slow and reputationally damaging.

So do I just keep going it alone or do I need to reframe the requirement?

the answer is ‘no absolutely not, they’re bone idle around the house’
I’ve never in my life been in a relationship where the man didn’t do at least 50/50 housework.

if we’re talking about men individually, there is nothing biologically that prevents them from cleaning the house, so why would you expect or accept that. I don’t understand why we infantilise them. They are not a child in the home, they’re an equal adult.
if we’re talking about them as a group, they can apparently run the world, I’m sure they can figure out how to wack the dishwasher on. I have absolutely no time for any man that isn’t capable of acting like an adult, and isn’t actively benefiting my life (and ofc i expect to do the same for him)

The idea that I am so desirable that I would have multiple applicants of a high enough standard to need sifting is pretty farcical
perhaps this is your issue. Do you not feel worthy of being treated like a nice and good human being who is an equal partner in the relationship?

i agree however that due to the way society is, lots of men are only willing to give the bare minimum and expect to be catered for. Perhaps a dog would be better for companionship, and then if a man comes along that actually adds any value to your life great, and if not - at least you don’t need it and don’t have to accept whatever shit he’s offering. Perhaps a friend with benefits would tick some of the boxes…

I think you could easily clear your conscience if you felt that by substituting “close/best friend”, (male or female), you could achieve what you feel is lacking.

Then it means you are merely craving normal human warmth and interaction and not submitting to the patriarchy that says all women need a man to be complete.

You could try and see them more like a stray cat?

Some take one look and decide that you're the most wonderful person in the world and stroll in, make themselves comfortable on the sofa and spend the rest of their lives being adorable and affectionate to you (with regular gifts).

Some linger around in the garden for ages, but you keep feeding them and one day, they decide to come in permanently and never, ever want to leave you again.

Some just piss all over the place, get into fights and are best off released back into the feral colony to become somebody else's problem as they're constantly bristling at the existence of others, puff up with indignation at the slightest incident and are scratching at the door to get out at the first opportunity.

Some are fully socialised and a joy to be around even if there are the occasional crashes, bangs and clatters from the kitchen in the early hours and an inordinate amount of hair left around the place.

Some are only really nice to you when they want something from you - and some are just permanently joyful that you've agreed to let them in and greet you when you return from an expedition to the next room.

I was just going to suggest an alternative analogy using pets, but @NeverDropYourMooncup got there before me!

Brilliant!

I would just keep to your own company.

With the greatest of respect (i don’t know you personally), there are awful partners out there regardless of the gender.

But when everyone is terrible in your own eyes and everything is their fault and nobody matches up - i think you have to look at yourself.

Do them a favour, go it alone

I'd agree with you've been unlucky and chosen the wrong men to get close to. There are many good men and you may be surprised to find out that there are some wondering the same about women. Many of our good friends are single males who would have been good dads and husbands but never met a suitable woman. Most gave up by the time they were 30 and have settled into a life of hobbies and friendships.

You don't need to be alone try and make a few friends that you can share experiences with.

I'm curious, what do you think the OP might see if she looked at herself? What could she see that caused her to be abused in two long term relationships? Because this isn't a woman finding fault with 'everyone'. She has a happy life and friends. So what has she done do you think to have caused men to be 'terrible' to her?

On behalf of ‘men’ please build a solo life. You say you are in your 50’s with a lifetime of failed relationships, and then say:

“I'm against men on ideological grounds. I believe they are almost exclusively bad news - for women, for humanity, for the planet. I am anti men after years of first hand and second hand experience of them leading me to conclude they have almost no redeeming qualities.”

Is there anything within you that would consider that the problem may actually lie a lot closer to home than the male population? If you are so against men on every possible level then why on earth do you want to be with one?

With an attitude like that, I don't think any decent man would be in the least bit interested in you. So there's the answer to your conundrum right there.

I’ve never in my life been in a relationship where the man didn’t do at least 50/50 housework.

I actually don’t think this can be true? I have lived with several men. I know loads of women, most have lived with at least 3 men. I’ve never met ONE woman who would say this.
No, actually, there was one man who did most of the housework, but one in scores of men who did between bugger all and probably 30%.
I know on here women are always posting that their husband does 50/50 but I think it’s a myth, like the Loch Ness Monster.

Nonsense. A truly decent man would agree with her. Decent men don't listen to women talk about their bad experiences of men and tell them they're wrong and/or it's their own fault. Decent men know there's enough rubbish ones out there that women do come to the conclusion OP has and feel angry on women's behalf. When people make comments like yours they just show that they themselves are neither a decent man nor a woman who knows any.

I have a full life but I come home to an empty house and I hate being the singleton at events with my married friends.

Are you hankering after a man or a tribe? Humans are essentially herd animals, and with many herd animals we wouldn't keep just one because we would consider it cruel (hens, sheep etc)

So is it actually more of a fundamental monkey brain thing where you are craving the rest of your tribe would should be sat around in a cave with you?

Maybe what you need is a commune not a man? A nice woman's commune with your own area to retreat to but some nice social areas for when you fancy a bit of company or someone to give you a hand with something?

Although I'm bisexual so in your postion I would just swear off men...

Perhaps you've moved things to the next level too quickly. I'm in my 50's. Dated a fair bit over the years. I'd agree that mostly things seem good at the start, then go off. But getting out when you know it's time to isn't that hard if you don't live together. Perhaps aim to keep it on a dating level. You can still go to functions with them, have them over when convenient, or go to theirs.
Have the good bits, but don't move in together - at our age that's usually years off anyway due to having own lives and families to sort, no rush.

She states she is anti-men and that men have almost no redeeming qualities. There's c. 3 billion men on this planet. Yes, I do completely dispute her complete hogwash based on a comparatively minute sample size. Your last sentence is nearly as nonsensical, give your head a wobble, fool.

Get a female lodger or two. Golden Girls set up!

I'm off men after abusive relationships. I feel zero compulsion to have a relationship of any sort with a man. I know my worth now. There's no way I will put up with the misogynistic, entitled, patriarchal bullshit behaviour that most men seem to think is acceptable.

I'm quite happy as I am. I will however be getting another dog when circumstances allow. I miss my old dog every day. I don't miss any of the men.

Are men like cleaners ?

Well my with my ex I thought he'd last a lifetime but the garentee didn't last that long and I thought he was a top of the range model.

I won't be buying again.

As you age the odds of getting a good one decreases so going by my dissapointing choices in the past with him, I think I'd best not invest in another.

I agree with getting a pet though.

Absolutely...the ole 'look at yourself' brigade again.
Men have been entitled to everything forever... when women start saying, hang on this is shit for me, the men and some women start the 'if you smell shit wherever you go check your shoe'...its not true. As you get older theres very few fish in that pool and there's reasons (bar widowed oc) that theyre single..i can give examples but its lengthy. Misogyny and internal misogyny...thats what needs to be looked at before casting aspersion. Women have been indoctrinated to pander to these men, even attacking each other and taking on the rhetoric of 'well it must be you '...we are programmed to think that by the patriarchy

I'm a man and I think your "interview questions" idea is solid. You'll only put off the ones that would not have been compatible anyway. Good luck whatever you choose to do.

The only problem with your questions that most of them will just lie and tell you what you want to hear.

Words are never going to tell you how someone is. It's always their actioins.

Im still married, well - more like housemates, but I know that I would never marry or cohabitate again. The laziness is unbelievable.

I’ve never in my life been in a relationship where the man didn’t do at least 50/50 housework.

I actually don’t think this can be true? I have lived with several men. I know loads of women, most have lived with at least 3 men. I’ve never met ONE woman who would say this.

I fall into the first category, though I've only had the one proper relationship, with DH. I worked away a lot and he took on the role of looking after our home and children. No call for a medal from him it was just the way things were. Even now we're retired he still does more than his share. The influence wore off on our girls as they're both married to men who do their share.

Love it! 😻