Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

Hello all on this thread

My dh has ASD. I’m struggling. Today I had work and he had the dc. He struggles with this but as long as he knows in advance and I leave on time it’s ok. Today I got caught up and was late. He’s absolutely destroyed had a meltdown and now is in shutdown because he was trying to just cope till a certain time and it went over that.

I feel guilty but I also feel upset that things have to be so exact and his routine and planned things can’t deviate at all . How do others deal with this kind of situation ?

@ThisNiftyMintCat Having children is always a gamble. Whatever anyone’s circumstances. I second the suggestion of therapy (individual therapy, for you). Think of what the effect is of your partner’s surveillance attitude on you. How does it leave you feeling? Tense? Anxious? Guilty? Self-censoring? Frustrated? Lonely?

Then imagine what that would feel like on a young, attachment-seeking, developing brain.

Would your DP consider treatment for anxiety, which is essentially what this is? Are you able to talk openly and productively about this issue?

On the topic of children - something very basic I don’t think I really grasped was that if one parent is ND, chances are high that any children will be, too. And ND can mean anything from a bit quirky to non-speaking and needing round the clock care.

And there’s no guarantee that your child will be ND in the same direction their parent is, IYSWIM - so dad might be extremely orderly and regimented and need total predictability and quiet and high levels of control in order to function, and you may have a child who is timeblind and sensory-seeking and needs lots of noise and movement. Or the other way around, where a child needs a very high level of predictability and order that parents with serious executive function issues just can’t provide.

(I do see ND families where everyone’s temperamentally compatible and those families tend to be happy and harmonious - but it’s the luck of the draw, as it is in any family. Mostly the ND families I know are a random pick n mix of directly conflicting needs that can cause not just discomfort, but severe and ongoing trauma)

I wouldn’t un-have my child for the world, he’s brilliant and I love him to pieces. But the traits he has make life extremely painful and difficult for him, and for us, and I get very little practical or emotional support from my DH and often have to carry him as well. I am burnt out all the time.

Hi @Mywholelifeisgrief
Welcome to this thread!

Thats a really hard one isn’t it?
It’s clear that looking after the dcs on his own was already way past his tolerance levels. He only managed to maintain some calm and composure for that time.
And he needs the predictability of knowing exactly what time you’ll be back.

Im afraid that bar giving him a time that goes a bit later than you think it will, I’m not sure what else to suggest. Life sometimes gets in the way and you can’t control everything.
My own dh did cope with the dcs on his own. We didn’t have meltdowns like that. He simply got more snippy and PA and grumpy instead.

I just want to cry - can someone please give me a virtual hug? DH is generally an angry irritated person. He shows no affection and we haven’t had sex for about 2 years and only sporadically (months apart) before then. There’s no emotional connection on his side at all. If I don’t reach out for his hand, we’d never hold hands. And even then he will remove his hand a few seconds later. After a discussion, he will now give me a peck goodbye when he leaves the house and a peck goodnight. If I try to kiss him for longer, he withdraws. Our mouths barely touch. If I don’t try to kiss him ‘properly’ there is no kissing. He shows absolutely no interest in me at all. He barely looks up from his computer. If I do try to talk to him about something, he may or may not even reply. If I give my opinion on anything, I’m wrong and he tells me so, followed by ‘you just don’t like someone having a different opinion to you do you’. He goes to bed at 1am every night - I go to bed around 11- 11.30pm - I just can’t stay awake longer. He’s visibly bored on holidays and at weekends and just wants to get back to work.

Today I finally asked him if he doesn’t see me in that way and he says he’s sick and tired of being rebuffed and being told ‘not tonight’. I was so gobsmacked as that hasn’t actually happened. It’s a completely made up scenario in his head. I was actually speechless. He said if I don’t climb on top of you then nothing happens and I’m tired of it. Again - I don’t know what to say. He hasn’t actually done this. He’s never done this. This has never been our style of instigating it with each other.

I can’t obviously have any kind of sex life without ANY kindness or affection at all - and there isn’t any - but he hasn’t reached out to me for years and the last 6 times we have had sex, I’ve instigated it. He’s made zero (or even negative) effort. He is very clearly not interested. And hasn’t been for years. I’ve had my head in the sand but the fact he’s making up stories that he’s tried has just completely upset me. Because he really hasn’t. I feel totally unloveable and unattractive. Worse than that. I feel as if I’m disgusting and totally undesireable.

@CinnamonTart 🫂🫂🫂

This is shit.
His behaviour is making you feel unseen and unloveable but he is now trying to somehow make it your fault too 😢😢

I think he is rewriting history there. Whether it’s a concious or unconscious (as in ASD type of issue) decision, it’s hard to tell but at your place I’d ask myself the question if it’s not deliberate tbh.

@SpecialMangeTout thank you for replying - I feel so upset at the sheer untruth of it all. Is it an ASD trait to rewrite history? I don’t stand a chance if so. Why would he do it deliberately - to make it my ‘fault’?

I’ll be honest, and please anyone correct me if I’m wrong!, I don’t think rewriting history is an ASD trait as such.
It might be one of his coping strategies to cope with ASD though.

I’m not sure this makes it better than if it was only ASD. For him to change that, he would to recognise he is wrong and that’s not a strong point for autistic people (rigidity, ability to put themselves in someone else shoes etc….).

Im so sorry. It’s so hurtful to have your own history being ignored and deleted by the person who is supposed to be the closest to you.

However, one thing that might be going on (that is ASD) is that adversarial dynamic.
Have you seen the article linked a few posts above about that? Maybe this will be talking to you.

Link here again in case it’s hard to find

@SpecialMangeTout oh gosh - I’ve just looked back and found that article about the adversarial dynamic - this is totally it. Except that I never issue instructions or requests because he will take everything as ‘telling him what to do’. eg if I ask if he happened to grab DS’s coat as we’re about to drive off to go off for the day - he’ll take it as me telling him to get DS’s coat. I’m not - I’m just asking because if he didn’t, I know I didn’t so I’ll just go back inside to get it. If I say red, he will say blue - he always takes the opposite view and I am totally the enemy - then he will deny he ever said what he said.
I don’t have a future do I?

@CinnamonTart I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. The ‘rewriting history’ situation sounds a bit more like DARVO tactics (which my PDA DH and DC do a lot of). DARVO = Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender.

So the way this works in my house is DC will hit me, and I say ‘ow’ and immediately HE claims I hit HIM, and falls on the ground screaming. (And then probably hits me again for good measure)

Or I’ll say calmly to DH, please don’t raise your voice, and he’ll say ‘YOU’RE the one shouting! I can’t even hear myself think!’

It’s a reflexive response any time they feel told off or found fault with. It’s never possible to talk about it, or think about it together in a non-defensive way, because it’s all wrapped up in shame for them. I’m not sure they’re consciously aware they are doing it.

So maybe your DH felt shame when you wanted to talk with him about intimacy, and had a knee-jerk reaction to make it your fault.

I wish I knew the answer. It’s so hurtful and crazy-making.

@Bunnyhair yes that it’s it! Can I ask what PDA is?

Pathological Demand Avoidance - it’s a form of ASD.

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/

Yes @CinnamonTart my ASD DP rewrites history all the time. Will repeat back what he “just said” only it isn’t anything like what he said. I don’t mean a slightly different version. I mean completely different. Adding in things he just didn’t say. But I think he does believe himself. I have a really strong auditory memory and can repeat things word for word easily. Even days later. It’s just how my brain works. Like a photographic memory. But he will repeat his version of what he thinks he said and it’s not a fe different nuances here and there. He has literally completely changed the entire conversation. And I’ll say “that is absolutely not what you said. Not in any way at all!” And I’ll tell him what he actually said. And hell just tell me I’m calling him a liar. Or that I am deliberately misrepresenting him. I have even started recording him. And playing it back. And then he just shrugs and says “ok so what!?” And I’m like “but you just swore black was white. Just said I was calling you a liar! And here is the proof it is YOU who has completely got it wrong. Has made up a load of stuff you didn’t actually say!!” And he just shrugs like it’s nothing.

Pickle and Mangetout thank you. It’s hard to explain why his reaction wrongfoots me but it’s often just not the reaction I know I would have myself. I say all the time to DH that I need to be talked to just as a fellow human being and for example, not have you wander off literally while we’re having a conversation. Or, his reaction is very strange when I say to him I think I am depressed- he doesn’t ask me why, or express concern he just carries on talking about whatever it is.

I follow up these strange responses by trying to fill in the (to me, normal, emotional) blanks) because I am so desperate for there to be some kind of a connection between us, I carry on trying to reach out by expanding on it and giving him all the information on a plate, saying I think I could be depressed because I need to have an adult relationship where we talk to each other, and he just replies with some unconnected random practical question.

It’s unexpected because if that was him saying that kind of thing to me I would be really worried, I would be dropping everything to find out what is wrong, try to help etc. it feels so gaslighty.

Another example, My DH can be very good and precise practically but if he feels stressed out sometimes suddenly has no eye for even the most basic detail like around getting things ready or tidying up for something coming up. He’ll rush a job through if we’re under time pressure and lose any sense of quality control and that can cause future problems if it’s not done properly/safely. There’s a child like level of magical thinking in it almost, overstating my powers. Like things like giving me an unwashed dirty clothes basket to hang up to dry, when it’s not wet at all and doesn’t have the same clothes in the baske, because he ‘didn’t realise it hadn’t been washed’. Even though he put the current wash on. And I know I didn’t take out that load. Baffling. Where has his mind gone? It means I can rely on him.

He’s also aggressively self-defensive if I ask the mildest question about anything he’s doing and says my tone, the way I speak to him, is awful. But I can’t always rely on him to do things, which adds more pressure on me to need to ask him, since we have a child who needs a lot of looking after and I’ve got limited time and energy. So I say (again, taking on all the emotional labour for him of trying not let him to hurt my feelings) that I promise I am talking totally normally, objectively, but it seems he dislikes the content of what I am saying. Which to me is not offensive content.

I feel he’s deflecting from the issue by complaining about my tone. He will then accuse me of shouting at him when I am not, which is something my autistic DC also do. It also avoids him needing to give me an answer. He can say the most awful things about me in an argument. Yet I know he really loves me in some ways.

I have talked a bit to friends about it and find myself saying I know all this could sound abusive when I describe his behaviour but I don’t think it’s meant that way. I just feel so shit about the relationship and so lonely and stuck.

There’s other things, his very strong love of order and sameness. I think about my DC special interest in certain people, something I never knew about before as an autistic trait, and have had an awful realisation maybe I am/was his special interest person. He ‘loves’ me but wants me never to change or be ill, or be angry and thinks if he tells me something is so, that thing is true. It’s so confusing.

Truly I don't believe they love us. At least not in the way we accept the definition. We are facilitators and enablers who give our partners the best chance of a settled life.

@working4ever I agree.

@BustyLaRoux, @working4ever , @Bunnyhair and @ThischarmingHam - everything you say is true for us too (except the washing basket thing) - it’s all so depressing and overwhelming. I ‘ve decided I have to have a chat with him today requesting daily friendliness and non-sexual affection because I genuinely feel that he hates me. I know he’s going to explode and say I’m attacking him and what about his needs too and why does it have to be him that changes. I know it’s going to be my fault and I know that any resulting affection will only being done because of the conversation and that I’ve requested it ... not because he actually wants to. And it won’t last for long anyway. So what’s the point?

And we’re going on a family holiday tomorrow - which are never happy times as he’s always in a mood with me and I’m the enemy. I’ve been awake since 4am and am feeling so teary about everything.

my ASD DP rewrites history all the time. Will repeat back what he “just said” only it isn’t anything like what he said. I don’t mean a slightly different version. I mean completely different. Adding in things he just didn’t say.

@BustyLaRoux oh that’s interesting. Because both dh and dc2 do that. But it’s more that they have this whole convo in their head, don’t say a word about it and you only get the end (and you wonder wtf because it has nothing to do with the original question) or snippets of it (and they get annoyed if I ask for clarification).
I never thought it could look like rewriting history.

@working4ever i am an enabler. It took me years to realise both what I was/am doing and why. But yes.

He ‘loves’ me but wants me never to change or be ill, or be angry and thinks if he tells me something is so, that thing is true. It’s so confusing.

@ThischarmingHam you could have described my relationship with dh.
From the lack of connexion and me trying to fill the gap to him having no reaction to me being unwell.

Same with the not trusting. So many times dh has stated things as if they were gospel and I found out (sometimes years later) that he was completely wrong. He is also using what I’d call ‘white lies’ (or is this magical thinking?) etc….

Tbh the ‘cannot be ill’ is the thing that is creating the most issues. Because his needs to be right, needing things to stay the same/inability to put himself in my shoes etc… clashes massively with my needs as a chronically ill person.

@ThischarmingHam I really relate to what you're saying. DH has amazing capacities in work but these can disappear completely at home. Home skills can be super well done and then non-existent on a different day. I guess my skills vary a bit but just not in such an extreme way. DH has always blamed his chronic illness for this but I believe it's ASD.

In part thanks to the validation I've had on this thread, I've started just telling the truth to DH when he asks about being frustrated and simply digging in for the fallout.

Yesterday we had a talk and he listened to what I said, fixates on the negative thing and decided to do it unilaterally. I basically said what Bunnyhair did previously- either collaborate or let me do it. It's just so difficult when someone is not able to hear what you say. I asked him what he thought collaboration meant and he said 'guessing what other people want' 😨. I think he's so deeply affected by ASD in ways I never knew before, I'm struggling to know what to do with all of this.

@DrawersOnTheDoors when you say “I've started just telling the truth to DH when he asks about being frustrated and simply digging in for the fallout.” do you mean he asks why you’re frustrated?

Our fallouts only end if I leave the room - he gets louder and louder and won’t listen to anything I say.

Does anyone make their marriage work, or are we all cohabiting feeling stressed and upset?

@CinnamonTart depends what you mean by ‘work.’ Things are fairly calm at my house these days since I’ve given up wanting anything from anyone.