Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

My partner has even called me an enabler. Yes he rewrites history too and everything else mentioned. He has read articles and watched numerous videos about ASD and has all the psychobabble. I am told I am gaslighting, narcissistic and abusive (and other people too) and he is the victim. I'm at the point that I am beginning to think he knows what he is doing and deliberately triggers a reaction. I can't live like this nor should I have to.

Not here. I'm open with everyone and they just compliment me on doing it all alone...

The only thing I'd add here is that sometimes the person may have a different reaction when they're no longer triggered, so it can help to completely ignore the first things they say...think of if like "oh shame is replying here, I'll ignore shame" and when the calm (most reasonable) version of him returns then try a conversation.

As we all know here, sometimes with a ND spouse, the latter doesn't work for all sorts of other reasons...

As an autistic person, I felt this post in every cell of my body. It’s so tough, isn’t it?

We autistic people don’t enjoy being this way. It’s frightening and debilitating for us. When you were running late, did you keep him updated? In such a situation I think a positive distraction might help. “Im running late but later, why don’t we order take out?” Sounds silly, but this would help me.

This is not a trait I’m familiar with as an autistic person highly involved in the neurodiversity community. Perhaps he has other conditions going on?

What are his redeeming features?

Wow, that blog. Written by a bitter ex-wife of an autistic person. With zero credentials.

This should not be quoted as a solution to anything.

A four-day weekend, hurrah. DH: not going out. Too many people. Will do DIY.
Fine.
Earlier this week, he got things ready for his proposed project, and since then has been obsessing over a particular element that nobody will see and isn't of any practical value. OB-SESSING. We literally have to tiptoe around this thing, while other visible and necessary jobs go untouched to service this specific piece of perfectionism. No praise about how good that looks now will trigger him to move on (and get the blasted thing out of the way). Meanwhile, various corners of the house are silting up with things he's bought for all the other jobs that won't get done. No, of course I couldn't pitch in. Not worth even suggesting it, as it doesn't match his vision of who I am.
I'm really not sure who I bloody am any more. Today I'm just someone who waits around to see what'll suit him, so that I don't trigger a sulk or a meltdown.

@CinnamonTart our fallouts are exactly the same! He gets louder and louder. I calmly say “there’s no need to shout. Why are you shouting at me?” But this doesn’t stop him. He shouts over me. If I keep talking to the end of my sentence he says I’m talking over him!!!! He has accused me of always having to have the last word. This is completely untrue! It is him who always has to have the last word! Once he gets going I just say “I’m not taking part in this. You’re shouting at me and I don’t appreciate that” and I leave the room. And I will ALWAYS be able to hear him continuing with some more shouty comments either directed at me as I leave, or directed into the universe about me and what a heinous individual I am! So yeah, the last word. Not had by me. But by him. And yet in his head he still tells himself I always have to have the last word. Even as I am silently walking away from him and not responding. Even as he is shouting stuff at me as I leave. He doesn’t register that he is having the last word.

It goes back to completely altering the words when he recalls what he thinks he just said. I genuinely think he actually believes himself. It happened again yesterday morning. He said something. I forget what. I responded. I think I responded by recalling something that someone else had done. (It wasn’t an argument, just a chatty conversation). He replied with “yes, that’s what I just said!”

Except it wasn’t what he just said. He hadn’t mentioned this person or what they did. Or alluded to it in any way. Literally had said nothing at all which was linked to what I said. I would have been gobsmacked if I wasn’t so used to it. When he said “yes that’s what I just said!” my instinct was to stop and turn to him and ask whether he actually believes that he said that? Because he absolutely didn’t even mention it. How can he possibly think he literally just said that. It’s like he was telling me off for repeating what he’d just said. Except he hadn’t said it.

I now think that he uses the wrong words maybe. So although he says “yes that’s what I just said” what he means is “I just thought that too”. Perhaps then the brain gets confused between thoughts and words spoken out loud. It’s really fucking odd! But I’m so used to it now I have learnt not to question it as he just insists he is right and says I have misremembered or blames my bad hearing. Which is gaslighting when you think about it. A term I think much overused, but appropriate here.

So although he says “yes that’s what I just said” what he means is “I just thought that too”.

id agree with you there.
I find really hard when either dh or dc get upset when I dint know what they have thought (but haven’t told me).

Another layer with dh is that he tends to say Yes when actually he wants to say No. many reasons incl the fact he feels he ought to say Yes or that he feels it’s the path of least resistance etc… (and sometimes he also genuinely thinks he’ll do it too). But the end result is BOTH OF US being upset. Him because I somehow ‘forced’ him to do something he didn’t want. A me because I assume he’d do that thing ‘happily’ (because he said so) and he isn’t.

The issue is that I simply can’t guess if his Yes means Yes or means No. or rather when I do try, I’m guessing wrong half if the time!

I've posted before on this, and not everyone agrees, but I believe there many behaviours are a combination of traits, "nature", and adaption and habit formed over a person's lifetime, "nurture".

I think this is far more complex when a person either doesn't have a diagnosis or is diagnosed later in life. (I suspect many of us on this thread are aged between 30 and 60)

I get to witness this first hand every day, the difference between the way DS behaves and DW is startling. If you know them well enough it's clear that DS just lets his traits surface, whereas DW keeps them buried beneath a kind of soup of adaptation and misinterpretation.

I agree @Daftasabroom .
imo a lot if the issues I have with dh are coming from (mis)adaptations to ASD. And trauma.

It hasn’t been helped by the fact he was diagnosed as an adult. His parents/teachers/whole generation had no idea about autism and how to deal with it.
It raises the issue of whether that person then has any control over it or whether it can be changed. (Whereas autistic features are what they are. No point asking an autistic person to change his autistic traits iyswim)

CinnamonTart
I’ve decided I have to have a chat with him today requesting daily friendliness and non-sexual affection because I genuinely feel that he hates me. I know he’s going to explode and say I’m attacking him and what about his needs too and why does it have to be him that changes. I know it’s going to be my fault and I know that any resulting affection will only being done because of the conversation and that I’ve requested it ... not because he actually wants to. And it won’t last for long anyway. So what’s the point?

Good luck. I hope this works for you. I tried and it didn’t make a change but for me the point was just to hear myself saying it to DH and not having to bury those words/feelings, which is so unhealthy and which I have to do it a lot of the time especially with my autistic DC.

I had imagined that DH would be horrified hearing me say I felt like he actually hated me but he just replied that that’s how he feels I feel about him. That I hate him. DARVO. Would be funny if it wasn’t so sad!

Now things are a lot better between us and it’s purely because I’ve been happier and more jokey due to some other life stresses going away temporarily (and I’ve got more on top of my HRT).

So I’m a more easy going energetic version of myself at the moment and that’s what he wants. (Who wouldn’t- but it’s the inflexibility about the tough times that is hard). It helped in a small way when I was weeping in the GP to feel heard by her - I said I needed all the hormones I could get because of all the open ended needs I had to deal with at home. She said that sounded really tough and didn’t quibble about the prescription.

@SpecialMangeTout @HebburnPokemon

Again we've discussed this before, but anecdotally I think DS is more self aware than DW. He seems more able to cope with life than DW.

@CinnamonTart I have read your posts and my heart goes out to you.

This may sound harsh, but it is truly not meant so:

Why do you stay in such a deeply unhappy marriage, sweetheart?

This environment is not one you can flourish and grow in. This relationship gives you little happiness, does it.

There is a concept that helped me a great deal "Letting go with love". No blame. Just that your needs and his are different.

It can be extremely difficult to face separation partly because it means a massive change in the status quo. But it's worth taking stock of your current life, where you came from, where you think it's headed and is that what you want.

@Worriedaboutleaving

i saw your message come up on and old thread last night and wanted to respond. Do post here again if you feel like it. This is the current one.

The physical aspect of our relationships is extremely challenging for many of us because warmth, affection, shared experiences etc are often the basis for a progression some of the time into sex. And without these cues and signals, especially for women, many of us feel like we’re living with a stranger on the physical front.

I’m so sorry you feel this way and I have to say I have felt this very much at times as you describe. Kisses can only be a peck, or for full in sex. There is no halfway house. There’s either sex or no sex. There’s nothing in between.

For now I have accepted things as they are: no sex. It hurts horribly though and yes it dents your self esteem and the way you think about yourself physically.

I wish things were different but any attempt at conversations about it are met with silence or “it’s difficult for us to feel close. I don’t want to force things”.

End of story.

@Daftasabroom yep. Same here. As you know.

Constantly amazed on this threads by the similarity of so many of your partners to mine. Even down to the same phrases they use against us. I mean, the exact same sentences.

It’s a reflexive response any time they feel told off or found fault with. It’s never possible to talk about it, or think about it together in a non-defensive way, because it’s all wrapped up in shame for them. I’m not sure they’re consciously aware they are doing it

This is so familiar.

I have realised my H lives in a completely different reality from me. His 'reality' is completely disconnected from the actual reality I live in. It makes communication or understanding impossible.

@DrawersOnTheDoors Does anyone make their marriage work, or are we all cohabiting feeling stressed and upset?

I could not make mine work, because of the adversarial dynamic. I had to stay until the children were independent enough to look after themselves (due to his lack of risk awareness etc). So for ten years we had a marriage which looked normal from the outside, but in fact, I had completely detached emotionally from him. I expected nothing from him and found love and comfort from my friends.

I did absolutely everything that related to the house, garden and children. I had too, because I could not bear the pain of his sulks and attacks if I asked for help or teamwork. If I could go back in time, I would probably do the same again, but I would tell more people what was going on. I think I covered it up out of shame and I see now that there was no need to.

It’s a reflexive response any time they feel told off or found fault with. It’s never possible to talk about it, or think about it together in a non-defensive way, because it’s all wrapped up in shame for them. I’m not sure they’re consciously aware they are doing it

this is so so so deeply offensive

you think I feel shame because of my autistic behaviours?

You clearly don’t have a clue about autism and how it impacts people. I am not ashamed. I am proud. And I’m proud of my autistic children too who battle against the deeply prejudiced views of them every day. It is my utter terror that they ever meet partners who think their behaviour is shameful.

i pity you.

Do your dh sometimes do a complete flip over behaviour wise?

dh is doing some complex/heavy diy this weekend. I was dreading it because when things don’t go well (and they always do at some point), I get the brunt of it. Basically he is using me as an emotional punching bag. And that project had the potential to be full of flash points.

But this weekend, he has been nice and kind. Thought about me (eg put a chair for me in the garden, wo being prompted) in the middle of his work. Listened to my ideas when he got stuck. Didn’t get grumpy when my proposal meant he had fucked up somewhere (which happens on that sort project. No shame or grumbles on my side! Mistakes happen). So many issues, but no outburst??
This is so far from how he normally is nowadays and is a reminder as to why I married him.

But why now and not any other day??

@SpecialMangeTout that's so nice. I wonder if he's had less demands, or sensory inputs and is feeling greater capacity at the moment for theory of mind?

@YesThis I have realised my H lives in a completely different reality from me. His 'reality' is completely disconnected from the actual reality I live in.

100% We even called it Mrs Daft Land for a while. She always thought the world was a much nicer place than it is, I found that really endearing for a while.

However, this bit It makes communication or understanding impossible. took over.

Completely relate to the different reality.

This afternoon DP accuses me of saying something I absolutely haven’t just said.

Me: mmm but I didn’t say that.

DP: yes you did! You just said x y z

Me: no. I didn’t utter those words. I didn’t say that at all. Not in any way.

DP: you did!

Me: except I didn’t. I said a b c. That’s what I said. I didn’t mention x y or z. You have made that up. I didn’t say that at all.

DP: but that’s what you meant.

Aha!!! The alternate reality strikes again!!!

Me: no. It isn’t what I said and it isn’t what I meant. Can you stop laying into me for things which haven’t actually happened!!!!

This is a common occurrence. He intuits stuff. He then convinces himself I said some words. And I have to be really clear that I have not said that. Nothing like that. Often he will just dismiss me and say I’ve misremembered! Or, on this case, he’ll tell me that’s what I meant! Except that it isn’t what I meant. That’s in his head. He has a fairly cynical view of the world and everyone in it. Everyone is on the take. Everyone has an ulterior motive. Everything is an accident waiting to happen. So he assumes the worst. Always. And then hears me say some words. Intuits the worst possible meaning. Attributes some unspoken words and insists this is what I said!!! His reality is like some weird alternate horrible universe. It’s not enough to say “well you said this but I think I understand your meaning to be….”. He doesn’t do that. He makes up words that I said. Whole sentences. And then swears blind I just said them. And I’m like WTF?! I didn’t even utter those words or anything like them. I have no idea what you’re talking about!!!

It is really lovely and I’m cherishing those moments.

I just wish I knew what’s the trigger. Im pretty sure it’s not something I have done or not done.
Which then would mean it’s something external that has changed.

What do I do with that though? I’m not going to cope much longer when things are the way they have been so far. I can’t control the environment when it’s not me iyswim.
So what’s the next step?

I'm so glad I've found this thread.

My partner is suspected ASD, won't go for an assessment however. Since they've decided they are ASD, however, all these little things that weren't present at the start of our relationship, have magically appeared.

The latest is blaming me for them 'shutting down' as I was a little quiet due to being tired after being poorly, having a lot on my mind & just not feeling chatty.

This has led to me feeling like the worst person ever & trying to make conversation & be normal even though I want to scream at them.

I feel so trapped right now & so desperately unhappy