Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

I hate him! So today is the first day of him not working and me being the only one working and earning money. I don't go into the office much as my team never goes in but I did this morning. I get back and go to set myself up to work in the study and he has taken the extension cable I need to put my laptop into so I can work! I mean, ffs!
So I go downstairs and say 'you took the extension cable I need to be able to work'. And he actually argued against me! He kept saying, ' I need to work too.' Thing is, where he has set him up in the dining room (permanently. this is not just a temporary thing he did whilst I am out) , he could just use a different bit of the table to work at and not need the extension cable at all.
He wouldn't stop arguing against me so I just unplugged it and took it upstairs and now I am ' A COW, an UNBELIEVABLE COW'.

Its so fucking him. I don't even exist. He always just takes things he wants regardless of me. Takes my notes out of folders as he 'needs a folder'. When I was 8 months pregnant he took the only roll of toilet paper out of the toilet as he had a cold and 'needed it' meaning when I went to the loo there was no toilet paper left.

I just don't exist to him at all. I'm not a person to take into account or consideration at all. Its bloody horrible!

Have you spoken to a solicitor Yes?

You sound at your wits end, unsurprisingly. He’s being a dick.

No I haven't because as I explained upthread, I stand to lose from that.

I can relate to much of this, though not to the name-calling. The arguing against me when I confront DH, however gently, with something he’s done (and I mean something black-and-white, like taking the cable I need to be able to work) drives me mad. Instead of an “oops, sorry, I didn’t think” we get bogged down in a circular argument and I end up being the one at fault. When all you’re trying to do is get on with your work it must be really frustrating.

Your posts ooze misery and rage. I’m sorry you feel so stuck. Is it always this bad or is it up-and-down? I ask because for me it’s the latter, though I still don’t know if DH’s behaviour is up-and-down or whether it’s my tolerance for it that changes. Whenever I reach a point where I think I can’t take any more, something shifts and things become bearable again. Like you I won’t contemplate leaving (for now at least) - though for different reasons - so I can relate to the stuck feeling.

Hmmm OK can you try a different approach? As this situation isn’t going to change any time soon. For your sanity you need to try and change the immediate. So instead of “you’ve taken the extension cable” (accusation) try “I need this” (state your need clearly). If he responds with “well so do I!” Then you reply with “then you will need to find a different one as this is the one from my office and I cannot work without it”

He simply isn’t going to consider your needs and telling him “you’ve taken the toilet roll” or whatever is going to be received as criticism. Avoid that. Just state your need clearly (though I am sending hugs and support as it would be far preferable if you didn’t have to state them. It should be bloody obvious a pregnant woman needs toilet roll to be kept in the toilet and someone who works at a home office needs their computer to have power!!). Don’t accuse or criticise. Don’t enter into a debate or argument. Try not to feel angry or upset that he hasn’t considered you. He simply isn’t capable of it. Criticising him for it isn’t going to change him sadly. Just walk in, state your need and get out. Ignore attempts to engage. Maybe it would help to think of him like a moody teenager who’s taken your charger from your room. If you went and said “that’s my charger. You’ve taken it from my room!” They would respond with a shrug and an angry “well I needed it!” They wouldn’t see that your need/right to use your own charger trumped their immediate need. And in fact you’d know full well that trying to win an argument with a teenager would be completely pointless as they are never ever wrong! Your DH is the same. If you were dealing with a teenager, you’d walk in to their room and “that’s my charger and I need it” and take it. You wouldn’t debate it. You’d not waste your time trying to explain yourself or bring them round to your way of thinking or change them to be more considerate. Maybe just treat DH the same…

Sorry I know you’re not asking for advice. I’m trying to think of ways you might make an infuriating intolerable situation slightly more manageable. Sorry if it’s unhelpful. I hope you survive another day of him being home! Xx

Thanks @supersparrow and @BustyLaRoux You are both right. I am a mass of misery and rage. Super sparrow, it’s nainly bloody awful. Small patches of not awful. But mainly I can’t bear being around him. At a very deep level my body and mind and soul just reacts to him as a source of pain and harm. I’m tense nearly all the time when he’s around. I relax when he’s out. I can hardly bear to reply to him. This huge weariness comes over me when he tries to speak to me. I think my body and mind at a visceral level tries to shut out his existence when he is around. Even when he is trying to be normal that is a source of distress as that’s just him ignoring how things are, not hearing what I have been saying.

Thanks for the advice Bustylaroux. What you say is sensible, I know. I am stuck in this combative mode of ‘see me, hear me, hear me, here I am’. I’ve been listening to a short song ‘ ‘there’s no such thing as a bad kid’ It has a line, ‘acting out is a sign of hope’. I think that’s me. I get angry with him, but actually that’s a sign of hope, I hope that he’ll see and hear my pain and care and change. But there is no hope, is there? So I might as well stop. I’ve so much rage, and it’s all such pointless, worthless rage. It’ll be hard to react calmly as each incident just triggers me back to the 1000 similar incidents before that, each layered one on top of each other, none of them ever resolved, all fresh and raw. If the pain he’s caused was visible in my body I’d be a walking mass of seeping open sores and wounds.
But you are right, all this is hurting me. So I should try to react differently.

I’m so sorry YesThis. I hear your pain. It sounds so very hard.

Gently, while I know it’s impossible to split, if you’re feeling like this, isn’t it also necessary? It sounds like healing would need to begin for you with time away from your H.

Practically, is it at all possible to stay with family, to sell and rent, even to move to a cheaper location if you’re largely WFH? Sometimes we need to just let go, and give up the fight and trigger the separation even if there isn’t an available plan, since living authentically as ourselves really matters.

I appreciate that with kids that have a hard time with change this feels calamitous but I’m so concerned for you and your ability to just live with any peace. Sending you a gentle hug.

@YesThis my heart breaks for you. It really does. Your pain is so clear to see. But yes, your rage is pointless. It only hurts you. I was married to someone who gave me rage. He wasn’t ASD. He was unspeakably lazy and manipulative. I knew I was being manipulated. I knew he was wrong. I felt that if I could just make him understand how I felt then he would surely change!!!!! And I tried every which way I could to change him, to make him see how much he was hurting me and destroying my respect for him. I was angry and bitter and resentful all the time. But worse than that was the frustration that I carried around all the fucking time of not being able to get him to see it! But I realised one day that he was never going to see it. To see it would be to admit he was wrong. And of course he must have known all along that he was in the wrong, but he would rather focus his efforts on manipulating me to carry all the load while he did nothing, than admit he was wrong and change. And there were no words he would accept. No reasoned argument he would not argue his way out of. In his case I do believe it was intentional. In your DH’s case I don’t think he actually has any capacity for change or the skills to understand your feelings in any way. That it’s not his fault is no less frustrating for you though.

In the end I accepted he was the way he was and I stopped trying to get him to listen or change. It made life so much easier. I stopped carrying the frustration around because I no longer felt not listened to because I no longer tried to make him listen! I stopped thinking about how unfair it was. I stopped caring what he did and what he thought and who was right and why wouldn’t he consider me or think about my feelings. I concentrated on the things that gave me pleasure instead. Spending time with my friends. Doing stuff with the kids. Making time for exercise. Wearing a nice outfit. A nice smelling candle. Putting on a body lotion. Listening to ten minutes of breathing meditation. Going for a walk. They don’t have to be expensive things. I carved out small pockets of time for me, which wasn’t easy as I worked full time and had two young children and a husband that rarely lifted a finger. I was able to rediscover some joy in life instead of walking about angry and frustrated. The acceptance part was really hard to achieve, but I did it and I knew I would leave him one day. In the meantime I had to find a way of making life tolerable and stopping making myself ill with unspent rage.

I know your situation isn’t the same. But for your sanity you have to find a way to make peace with what you’ve got now, knowing it isn’t forever. Stop trying to get him to hear you. He won’t. He can’t. Even if he did, he wouldn’t be able to change. It’s pointless. You’re spending too much of your precious energy hating on this man. Accept he’s a lost cause. Try and get better at being factual instead of critical. “I need this to happen” rather than “you shouted at the kids”. Don’t engage in a discussion about why you need the thingy or why he’s ended up shouting at the kids. “I need to feed the children lunch”. If he tries to stomp about saying they’ve done this and that and you’re undermining him, just don’t engage and repeat “I need to feed the kids lunch”. He can call you names but they don’t need to affect you. Smile to yourself that these words are completely meaningless. You should only care about what someone thinks if you actually respect their opinion and you haven’t got any respect left for him, so if he calls you a cow, or worse, then inwardly shrug and say to yourself “this nonsense no longer affects me”. Honestly it was so liberating when I stopped caring about my ex husband’s behaviour and concentrated on small things that made me happy instead. Opt for joy instead of rage. Which is much easier said than done! But it’s a start. You can’t carry on like this. As well as lots of unsolicited advice (I really am sorry as I know you just wanted to vent) I also send love and strength and empathy and want you to know that we hear you and we see you! Xx

@YesThis Its sounds so hard right now, you are not alone. It is not fair and it is not your fault, it sounds like you have done so much to try and help him. You can't change him but if you can, try to look after yourself. Big unmumsnetty hug.

@BustyLaRoux I think I am where you were in the second paragraph, accepting that I can't change H, I can only do what I can to look after myself, and DD. For years I have carried so many negative emotions around with me, so much sadness over lost hope, shame for getting myself into this, fear for the future, frustration over not being able to get H to listen and change , resentment for carrying the load, anger at H for hurting me when he knows my past and it's weighed me down for far too long. I daren't think what this has done to my health! In the last year things have turned a bit, I have written half a book, started blogging, joined an online social 'drink' group, taken time to meet with friends and also making taking more care in my appearance and bought clothes I actually like (because it makes me feel good). With DD I have been to Comic Cons, enjoyed binge watching on Doctor Who and other stuff we both like. A bit cheesy but it had helped me start to find me again, after being lost in a bubble with DH.

@LittleSwede I really resonate with the emotions you’ve listed, so glad you’re moving into a freer space.

Thank you, I am still here with 'D'H but it's a step closer to the future and whatever it holds.

That’s great @LittleSwede! It’s so important to remember who we are and enjoy being us. I divorced my DH in the end as I knew I always would, but my miserable life definitely improved when I accepted he would not change and spent my energy on things which brought me joy instead of pain.

@BustyLaRoux I divorced my DH in the end as I knew I always would, but my miserable life definitely improved when I accepted he would not change and spent my energy on things which brought me joy instead of pain. I did the same. If there is anyone who cannot separate properly, because of the safety of their young children, it might help if you could at least detach emotionally.

DP being particularly challenging this weekend. Full on criticism of me and DS for the smallest of things. Examples include: Me for dropping a yoghurt. It slipped out of my hand and the pot cracked and a bit spilt on the floor. He was standing about 2 feet away bare foot and exclaimed like he’d been burnt and then said “that’s gone on my foot!” I said oh dear, unable to see anything that far. I went over and bent down and looked around his foot, at his foot…nothing. I said “I can’t see anything!” And he said huffily it was the other foot. There was nothing even visible to the naked eye. If anything did splash him it must have been smaller than a drips worth as there was no yoghurt anywhere near where he was standing or on his stupid foot!!! He always exaggerates and makes out like he’s been wounded severely by someone else. I once opened a drawer where he was standing and it bumped him on the shin. Not hard. I didn’t yank the drawer open. I just opened it normally and it bumped him. (I was very tired and not thinking but I should have said excuse me). He jumped backwards and said I’d slammed the drawer into his shin!!! Went on for about ten minutes all about me slamming it into him! What an asshole I was. Etc. Acted again like he’d been burnt or cut or something. Everything exaggerated by 1000 so he can criticise.

My DS is always the butt of his criticism. He will say he’s left “pie all over the floor” and I’ll get down on my hands and knees and find one small piece of crust. Today he had apparently used some cable ties and left them “everywhere”. He had clipped three of them and left the ends lying only the ground but had put the rest away. I apologised and said I’d clear them up immediately (as I like to make a point and respond urgently to whatever heinous crime my DS has done this time!) and I went to find these masses of cable ties left everywhere and I said “oh sorry I could only find these three ends. Where did you say all the others were?” He then sort of mumbled that although DS had put them away they weren’t very tidy (I could make a comment about how much mess his DC leave everywhere but I wont!). And I said oh right OK I better tidy those up then! (Except the bag they come in is really narrow and it was actually quite hard to get them all back in tidily). I showed DP and said they don’t really fit very well in this bag. I think he tried his best to be fair. DP sort of backtracked then and said maybe they needed to go somewhere else as yes the bag was too narrow.

It’s just the way he seems to always be on the lookout for ways to find fault and get the hump and be put out. It’s so wearing all the bloody time.

Oh @YesThis .... Just to say - am listening. I hope and pray that something breaks your way so that you can separate. I believe you are in real danger of serious physical health issues developing. You can't live like you are ... I hear that it's impossible to separate financially but just to say, you are heard, here.

We’re continuing to try to learn to communicate better. I had a conversation with DH where I laid out loads of stuff but in a really calm way. I asked him that evening to summarise the main points back to me and he really couldn’t. (This was actually due to a previous poster writing about a lack of autobiographical memory - thanks to whoever it was).

So I wrote the main points down and we agreed he’d bring reflections for a chat with me within a month. Let’s see what happens, I don’t want to hope for too much.

@DrawersOnTheDoors this would seem like a totally batshit suggestion for most people, but I find writing a summary of important conversations and saving it on a project management app like Trello quite helpful. With a due date for follow up in a shared calendar. With email and text notifications turned on. I never imagined I’d need to use project management tools to approach important emotional issues in my marriage, but we are where we are 🤷‍♀️

Not just you two who use communication tools. We literally have an excel spreadsheet about who is supposed to do what when in terms of our Relate homework. On the fridge. Didn't work. This weekend I have taken the step of suggesting reminders to look at it.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate this. It means a lot.

Sending strength to everyone today x

And me. Sending everyone on this thread, love ❤️

@Bunnyhair DH would love it if we simply saved our emotions into Trello 😂

I have been reading this thread and it’s making me feel a bit better because I have been feeling quite down about my relationship lately. I think DP of 2 years is ND and I either need to end the relationship or find other ways to cope. I do love him and I love his two children (we don’t have any together). He’s never been diagnosed. I think I might have some ADHD traits but I basically identify as NT but I’m quite introverted and can be quite sensitive.

DP’s traits:

• never gives complements or tells me I’m beautiful
• we had quite major issues with intimacy when we first got together where he couldn’t have sex because he felt too self conscious. A bit better now but sex is infrequent and he won’t try anything new
• He doesn’t cope well if I don’t react the way he wants me to. Or if I consider things that might go wrong with a plan, he tells me I’m catastrophising or being overly negative. Basically I think anything that challenges how he has thought of something is hard for him.
• He will express low level irritation towards me but this is nearly always when his kids are here and I think he feels stressed/guilty about parenting but I find it hard to deal with sometimes. He doesn’t do it when they aren’t here (half the time).
• i was the one who said I love you first, after six months and thinking he’d never say it otherwise. He does tell me he loves me by text and before bed sometimes
• never spontaneously gives me a hug or anything
• quite rigid in his thinking and how he likes things done

He has a very toxic relationship with his ex wife who I think has some MH issues and is quite a toxic person generally. I have no idea why they got together as they are wildly incompatible and now they really struggle to co-parent although I keep out of that as far as I can. The latest thing that happened was where he suddenly snapped at me because I expressed some concern for his kids over an event they are going through (an imminent house move and losing contact with their mum’s partner, something which DP thinks is no big deal for them). It took me aback because I really didn’t say anything extreme, just that it was a shitty situation for them, but he really didn’t want to hear it. He did apologise so I think on some level he knows when he’s acted wrong.

Sometimes I wish I could have a normal relationship with jokey banter, frequent sex and spontaneous affection. At the same time I love my DP and for the most part things are good.

Ugh—does it matter whether he is ND or not when he’s such a difficult, irritable, miserable, person?