Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

@LittleSwede it was a bit triggering so you were probably right to avoid!

I think that what you describe about yourself masking and trying to please was what a lot of what the posters were trying to reference, albeit badly in some cases. And I don’t think anyone was actually saying ASD people should just fit in and accept not having their needs met in a world which has not been geared towards an understanding of these invisible disabilities. The trouble is that they failed to understand that ASD can sometimes become very controlling if left unchecked or unchallenged. And that there are different reasons behind the need to control. Sometimes it is, as you say, a response to feeling anxious and to create a sense of safety. But it can sometimes become intolerable for others around them when that need gathers momentum. My DP likes everyone to know he is in control and he sometimes pushes back just to make that point. For example the slowing down when is he knows I’m in a hurry. I don’t think he likes being rushed but I also think it’s a conscious point he is making that he won’t be controlled by me and he will do things in his own time in his own way and to do otherwise would be bending to MY will and he simply won’t do that.

And I don’t think those angry posters really could see past the needing to have their needs met / not masking side of things (which I don’t think anyone was actually saying should be the case) and appreciate how it feels when that become intolerable for others. They just got angry and accused people of being abusive. And it struck me that this defensive angry black and white attitude is what many of us have to struggle with. How unhelpful it is when trying to have a reasoned discussion which takes different views into account. Shutting down and accusations being the standard response and how this is my life a lot of the time.

Totally get what you’re both saying. I also have to control my environment as I have quite high sensory needs around noise and cold. I do get it. But I think what was often being described was what happens when this need goes unchecked and increases and increases (boiling the frog type of thing). I think there were multiple stories about ASD children who’d got to the point of being permitted to control everyone else in the house. Where others were allowed to sit. What could be watched on TV. Hiding the remote and having meltdowns if a sibling wanted to watch something else. Insisting on silence from their siblings. Siblings being made to stay in their rooms so as not to trigger the ASD child in the family. Siblings who were not allowed to use the toilet and who ended up wetting themselves because of this. Parents and siblings who were regularly hit and attacked. Very extreme. In many cases what people described was a dictatorship with the ASD child seemingly pushing further and further the boundaries of control and the desperate parents saying they know they needed to balance all their children’s needs but didn’t know how to. Some calls for zero tolerance and then respondents who obviously felt that unless there was violence (which was not OK) then the focus should always be attuning to the needs of the ASD child and making them feel safe, ignoring the very difficult position of the parents who were just trying to find some balance.

I did respond with a description of what it’s like to be the child of a parent who has to control everything. Who’s never learnt (been taught) that it isn’t OK to control others to such extreme extents. And someone responded with “well I’m sorry you experienced that but that was your dad’s fault and he shouldn’t have done that” overlooking what I was saying about how maybe if he had been taught as a child that his needs didn’t trump everyone else’s, we might have been a happier family when he grew up. To this day he still doesn’t get that his needs are not more important than anyone else’s and for that reason he alienates himself from people without understanding why. It’s too late for him to change.

I also think people have personalities alongside being ND. People blame some not so “social” or “nicer” qualities on the ND when in fact they are just like that personality wise. I certainly know some very pushy and controlling people who
are not ND.

@LittleSwede good luck with your counselling today. I’m four sessions in and still imparting information rather than getting to the stage of hearing difficult messages. I think it might take a long time before a counsellor can get to that stage. Though saying that my SIL only had six sessions and she said they dug really deep and she realised quite a lot of things about herself! So maybe my counsellor is just very slowly getting to know me. Or more likely I talk too much!!!! 🤣

@BustyLaRoux In some cases like my mum who was/is extremely controlling it’s less a case of she was allowed to become controlling she was raised with unknown Autism with alcoholic dad and a mum emotionally checked out. She was just left to deal with life alone and this was the outcome sadly, it had a profound effect on us as children having such a controlling mum.

Yes that’s definitely true! I think there was a PP on here who was quite affronted I was attributing my DP’s controlling behaviour to ASD and said maybe he’s just a shitty person! 🤪 And maybe that’s true. I don’t suppose I will ever know. To me he has so many traits of ASD that I cannot separate one from the other!

@BustyLaRoux It’s just my opinion but anyone, no matter what they have or don’t have that makes your life less or not worth living in it is maybe not someone to stay with. I’ve had 2 partner with ND. One diagnosed professionally and one self diagnosed. The first was abusive, whether he tended to or not the outcome on me was the same. He was controlling and extremely rejection sensitive. My current partner of 4 years would never behave in a way that upset or hurt me. His ND is not an excuse to get away with stuff and control others. I’m also ND and would not behave in that way also. I do believe that personality also plays a large part also. Like you said some people are just a bit shitty.

Yes I can well understand the need to control
can come from many different places. Your upbringing sounds very hard. I have had a similar experience with a controlling father and it has definitely had a profound effect on me and my sibling.

The thread I refer to started out referencing parents who had to find balance with all their children and the different approaches people might take. It’s definitely of interest to try and understand from an individual perspective where the need to control stems from.

@BustyLaRoux life is complicated lol! Some people are very fixed in their views unfortunately…a bit like my mother in law lol!!

@BustyLaRoux would you mind DM the link to that thread?

As a point of interest my SDS is also ASD and at his mother’s house is very much in control. He doesn’t have any respect for her and has been allowed to control too much as she has been overly sensitive to his needs to the point where he bullies her and his sister and has been violent to both of them. But in our house he is much more used to being told he isn’t going to get his own way (he does try it on and definitely tries to bully the other DC at times but my DP gives his short shrift if he does this). I know he is happier here. I think he actually prefers having the boundaries in place as he knows where he stands. His mother has been very passive over the years and is only recently trying to stand up to him. She doesn’t know how to do this and she ends up taking his things away and imposing ridiculously long screen bans on him which makes him react with aggression. He would never dream of behaving like that here.

Children, including ASD children of course, test boundaries. When those boundaries are not in place or expectations are very low they will often push a bit more and a bit more to see what they can get away with. Sometimes the need to control (which may well have started out as the need for a place of safety) has developed into this huge boundary-less exercise in controlling others which grows and grows and hasn’t been challenged. I can see it in the different ways my sDS is parented.

I think this as well, DS has far more self awareness than DW.

I just remembered I read a book called 'I will die on this hill', co-written by an autistic advocate and a parent of autistic children. It was all about the discord between the autistic adult community and how they felt that the parents of autistic children weren't 'doing it right' and how the parent writer got abuse from autistic adults when blogging about their child's struggles. In the end these two found a middle ground and wanted to spread the word in their book. Both 'sides' felt equally passionate about ASD and both had thought their way was the right way but eventually found a mid-way point/compromise. Maybe some of the people on that thread need to read that book 😄

Thank you, I only have 6 sessions and was 'warned' by the person on the helpline that they can't go that 'deep' in the 6 sessions but i said i wanted it anyway. Except this thread I've only really spoken to mum mum (who kind of understands, having been married to my DF!) and my best friend (who has also been in similar situation) so it will be nice to talk 'freely' to someone. Only issue is that they may not understand ND (hopefully they will) but I will give it a go...

When those boundaries are not in place or expectations are very low they will often push a bit more and a bit more to see what they can get away with. Sometimes the need to control (which may well have started out as the need for a place of safety) has developed into this huge boundary-less exercise in controlling others which grows and grows and hasn’t been challenged.

Wondering if this isn’t also true with adults tbh.
When I was a young adult, I sort of assumed that adults would simply respect other people’s boundaries, unless they were a twat.
Ive learnt that, actually, even good people test boundaries sometimes. And that actually, having clear boundaries help a lot in my marriage too.

I actually disagree with this. Its a different nature with ND people who are like this. Its not due to wanting to control the other person, or even seeing a benefit to them in doing so. Its instead a completely inability to even understand that they are being controlling. Its not a personality trait. Its a product of the ND.

When the ND person has lack of mindsight and an inability to understand the impact of their behaviour on others, its of a different quality to an NT person exhibiting the same traits (such as selfishness or lack of caring) as the ND person cannot even recognise or understand that trait in themselves.

That's absolutely the case with my H anyway. His personality is quite obviously at odds with his ND, which prohibits him from being the person he conceives himself as being. And he has no insight into this. Because the ND prohibits this too.

@YesThis I do totally agree with this. I was just kind of referencing the poster who said that their partner slows down to show that he has the control. This shows too much insight in my opinion and I do think some people are just a bit “shitty”. I’m sure you can be ND and also be not nice. I am ND myself so I don’t mean that offensively.

Yes, I have seen posts on other support threads for wives of men with ND and occasionally women there will post about their H's being manipulative liars, I mean deliberate and calculated manipulators. And I do think, ' are you sure they are ND?' Because I don't think my H is capable of planning a manipulation or lie like that. to do that would require an ability to understand another person to a degree he is simply incapable of. He may be a lot of things, but a calculated manipulator he is not.

@YesThis maybe the issue here is a vocabulary one and we need a word to describe a behaviour that feels controlling when you are on the receiving end but is actually down the SN/lack of insight etc…

Tbh I think the ‘manipulative liars’ comment might well be an issue with interpretation by the wife.

I know in some cases, it very much felt like dh was basically punishing me (esp as he had told me in the past this is what he had done!). And once I had calmed down and looked more carefully, it was clear that dh behaviour was the result of a total lack of insight rather than a premeditated action.

It's hard to know, if you asked me a year ago I would have said that DH was an angry man with some controlling traits, maybe even NPD traits. Since then, as I've come further on my own ASD diagnosis pathway, read loads of books, done the Freedom Program etc, it's becoming clear that DH is very likely ND too. His nephews are both diagnosed, his sister (my SIL) is going through assessment, they both think their late dad was ND and SIL also says that DH is do much like her son, who's dxd ASD. It is possible that some of his coping techniques are not so nice (snappy/snarly/sulky) but I don't think they are premeditated.

His belittling and mocking is very unpleasant though (he's almost stopped this as I'm very clear on ky boundaries now) and I so wonder if that is maybe some underlying misogyny or nastiness. It's driving me mad trying to figure it out. I find it exhausting and overwhelming to not know if we can keep going like this. DH just finished bereavement therapy and did bring up with his therapist how I find his behaviour triggering but apparently this is all due to grief and stress and he is working on that. He did say he might look into being assessed himself.

For my DP it’s about him not liking rushing. He never rushes for anything. He would miss a train rather than run for it. If I try and rush him because I don’t want to be late, he feels like I’m trying to make him do something he will
not do. This is why I’ve said I think he has PDA. Maybe I’m being flippant with the terminology though. I mean he won’t be made to do something he doesn’t want to do under any circumstances. So he slows down to demonstrate he won’t be controlled. One could say it was a PDA type behaviour or one could say it was just shitty. I don’t believe he does it to upset me though. Just to assert who is in control (ie no one but him) as that makes him feel more comfortable. To me it seems childish. But I understand he needs to feel in control.

@YesThis I've used the term "passive control" in the past on these threads in relation to seemingly passive aggressive behaviour. I think insecurity and anxiety combine with the need for control (and we ALL have that) until it becomes a toxic combination.

I think there is a fine and people are so complicated in general. But it’s really difficult being on the receiving end. Be it control which is insightful or not it can have a profound effect on the receiver. It did for me anyhow.

Same! My DP is controlling and he does lie, but it’s not manipulative at all. He doesn’t seem to know he is “lying” and he controls because he sees things in black and white terms (if he isn’t the one doing the controlling then he is the one being controlled). There’s nothing manipulative about it though. He is very direct and I don’t think he possesses the ability to manipulate people or situations in that way.

My exDH on the other hand is NT and very manipulative. Absolutely calculates every situation backwards from the outcome he wants to bring about which will benefit him in the way he wants. My DP doesn’t possess that level of intellect or nastiness to be fair. He is self centred but he isn’t selfish. My ex was entirely selfish. They are so so different.