Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

Difficult to say. I think the secondary school has maybe picked up on it. The school don’t seem to like my DP much. Partly I think because his ex has made sure everyone thinks badly of him, including the kids’ schools. But also because he approaches things in an adversarial way with them. And makes formal complaints. Sends emails criticising them. Threatens them with action all the time. I do have some sympathy as the school hasn’t been great at involving him but he could help himself by approaching things in a much more collaborative way.

The primary school seem to be a bit more understanding. But it’s funny how many perfectly nice teachers his youngest has taken against. Because she got told off once for something she hadn’t done. That’s it. They’re public enemy number one. DD comes home upset she’s been told off and instead of playing it down and saying teachers get it wrong sometimes and not to worry, he sort of winds the situation up and says the teacher is a liar and gets his DD calling them a liar too which she then does to her friends. The most favourite teacher in the school and she took against him as well at one point. Like I say he sort of plays into it. I don’t think encouraging children to disrespect their teachers is a good thing.

I know right? I was thinking the same. I have to spend so much mental energy not to have him take things badly. And no, I don’t think he puts this much effort into thinking about how to phrase things to me. We did counselling a couple of years ago but he just couldn’t seem to get to grips with what was being asked. The counsellor would send us away to practice out new communication techniques and we would come back two weeks later and he’d ask how it had gone. My DP would report I had been as difficult as ever and would recount how carefully he’d been wording his criticisms and responses to me and the counsellor seemed to always politely be saying “hmmm yes I see, but maybe you could have phrased it more like this as that does still sound rather critical and annoyed..??” I just don’t think he knew how to be anything else. He is critical and annoyed a lot of the time. He either says it. Or he shows it. He doesn’t have a grin and bear it setting and even when he was trying to think about how to word things, it didn’t go very well for him. Communication just isn’t his strong point.

I relate to this post so much. It seems my only options in this relationship are to be a doormat or to be portrayed as an unreasonable, nagging b@*ch. If only we could have a reciprocal conversation and reach an agreement that actually got followed through on. Instead it's all eyerolling, passive aggressive sighs, defensiveness, and a draining parent-child dynamic.

The only way I've found to avoid conflict or being a doormat is to be completely emotionally detached and just repeat what I want in a neutral tone every time. "You can borrow my suitcase, but only if you use plastic bags for the dirty laundry". It's like parenting an immature teenager.

@BustyLaRoux I have to spend so much mental energy not to have him take things badly

This, I'm constantly walking on eggshells.

The only way I've found to avoid conflict or being a doormat is to be completely emotionally detached and just repeat what I want in a neutral tone every time. "You can borrow my suitcase, but only if you use plastic bags for the dirty laundry". It's like parenting an immature teenager.

I found that too, but then he'd not use the plastic bags anyway. So it was a matter of just having to let him use it, and deal with the dirty clothing and clean clothing together.

Sorry I'm not in a relationship with an autistic person but I am autistic thread title caught my attention so I had a look. I've skimmed and I don't think a lot of these problems are due to autism- I've had some of these problems with NT men who blame my struggling with their lazy selfishness on my autism. I think men will use any excuse to dump on women.

This constant eggshells and feeling exhausted sound like how it feels to mask as an autistic person. So you are changing everything about yourself to fit a standard prescribed to you. I won't do it anymore. Home is home you need to feel comfortable and safe and recharge there. If home is costing you emotionally then bluntly tell him how it's making you feel and give specifics on how that can be changed. And actually think about it will this help you? My ex said I never showed an interest in him and it made him feel unloved- this wasn't true but I felt that if you want to share something you share it you don't need to wait to be asked- I certainly don't wait I just share with those I want to. Anyway ex told me if I asked how his day was when he got home it would fix the problem. So I ask and every f**king time he said "fine". It fixed nothing and actually just pissed me off. If I was told to put dirty washing in a separate bag I could do that easily it's a clear easy instructions- not following that is just disrespect because it's not even costing anything to accommodate that request and it's along more work for a partner it's not hard to work out if you consider why you have been asked that. I don't think that's an autistic thing it's a male thing

Didn’t want to ignore your message with my laundry woes!!!

That is a bit strange. I think people do tell white lies though. My step dad often says he has something in the oven and has to get off the phone all of a sudden. I know it’s a lame excuse. But I figure he has his reasons. Maybe the slightly bizarre tale of a cancelled train is a cover for something else, as you say. Nothing sinister. Just in a rush and didn’t want to admit he hadn’t left enough time so trying to deflect blame onto a cancelled train rather than poor planning on his part. Thinking about it, I probably do similar. I have missed the odd Teams meeting at work (my fault) and then later told someone I missed a meeting as the time had been changed (which is true but I had known about the time change and just forgot!). Maybe that makes me a deflector!!!! (My DP would certainly say I am!) but I wonder if we all do this a bit…… so yeah, I think you might have been overthinking it a bit. Unless you genuinely think there is more to it and need to do some digging??? Xx

Thanks no I don’t think there is more to it and think he just didn’t realised the time to be honest..

@PurpleBugz Interesting to hear that you think about it maybe being a male thing. It might play some part in it at least. I spent my life masking and it could be described as walking on eggshells. Another way to look at masking is that it can make you a people pleaser, lowering your boundaries to fit in and be accepted. Which makes you very vulnerable to abuse and being taken advantage of. As well as over-accommodating to another persons needs, which has been the case for me. So there could be a crossover there.

I am autistic too and I have been turning myself inside out trying to figure out if my DH is an 'bad' arsey person with NPD traits (he is too empathetic for this to be the case, he is very loving), an entitled male, a man with unresolved anger issues and trauma, undiagnosed autistic, ADHD, PDA or maybe even a combination of all of these. The bottom line for me now is that I can't live with walking on eggshells, whatever the reason. However, if his irritation and moods are due to an undiagnosed ND it give me hope that he could find strategies to manage better (like I am for my own ND) and feel more at ease in the world.

I agree that many of the things I struggle with in my relationship are also things straight women in relationships with men probably struggle with as well. Slovenliness, a certain amount of self-cent redness and thoughtlessness.

But then there are also other things that most of my friends who aren’t my ND relationships can’t relate to, such DH’s very impaired working memory, little ability to remember events in his own life or conversations we’ve had, the PDA which means DH can barely leave the house and resists bathing, brushing his teeth, opening his post. The debilitating anxiety and inability to make decisions. The need for everything always to be the same. Eating the same thing every day, not able to go on holiday, not able to tolerate having tradespeople in to fix things in the house so they just remain broken (because DH can only trust himself to care enough to donut properly, but doing it at all is too much of a demand). Hostility when other people express emotions that he doesn’t share (whether that’s grief for a lost parent, or enthusiasm about things he’s not interested in). This is not just a man thing.

Then there’s the RSD and the black & white, either/or, rigid thinking where if I make a suggestion or ask him to do something differently he hears it as my saying he is bad or wrong. And he doesn’t agree that he is a bad or wrong person, so I must be the bad or wrong person. Because the possibility doesn’t exist that we’re both just people muddling through and trying to share space as comfortably as possible and this may involve some discussion of logistics and negotiation at times: someone has to be bad and the other good. Someone has to be right and the other wrong. This happens in his friendships and working relationships as well, and he struggles to maintain those.

These are the things I find harder, not least because most people don’t have similar experiences in their relationships and can’t relate, and say my DH must just be a twat or an abuser. And he me not, unless you take the view that my quite vulnerable young child is one as well. The only other people who can get what goes on in my marriage are people on this board and in my small community of parents of children with SEND.

I have loads of autistic people in my family and in my social circle, and of course - of course - there is as much variation among autistic people as there is among NT people, or people of any other ‘neurotype’ - in terms of temperament and outlook and relational style. But the experiences I find hardest about my own relationship with my own DH (which is all I can claim to speak about with any authority) do correlate to ASD traits of his that I don’t share.

And no doubt his biggest issues with me relate to traits of mine (ADHD and otherwise) that he doesn’t share. I’d hazard a guess that he experiences me as a source of relentless pressure and irritation, always wanting to do things and change things and needing to ask him questions or involve him in things or wanting to know his opinion.

It’s the areas where we are communicating from different dimensions that feel the hardest.

@PurpleBugz very interesting. It’s only recently (last two years) I’ve come to think my DP may be autistic. I genuinely think he is. I have spoken to him before about the eggshells and we had some counselling (I hadn’t clocked we might need a ND specialist counsellor back then). He managed to turn all our sessions to how he felt ALL THE TIME and how it was me who wasn’t communicating in the right way. I did pick up a few things from the counsellor (see earlier post about phrasing my wish for him to refrain from saying something which upset me). I did learn a bit here and there. Sadly he didn’t. He couldn’t really adopt the approach. Seemed to think he’d done a great job when he hadn’t. I wanted us to have counselling to address his anger and volatility. But he made it all about him and how I need to speak to him. He spoke over me all the time. The counsellor said he thought we weren’t ready for counselling! (I don’t think he meant me!!) Actually I don’t think he was the right counsellor. But it was hard going and I don’t think I have the appetite to go through it again. I have my own therapy now. It’s early days.

It’s funny you should mention being told to ask how someone is. My DF is also autistic. He rings me and talks about nothing but himself. It’s not that he’s getting older. He’s always made everything about him. Every conversation he either shuts down (if of no interest to him) or butts in and starts talking about himself. I once remarked that we had been on the phone for 20 minutes and all he had done was talk about himself. He hadn’t even asked how I was!! Well, I think that then became a little rule he could follow. So then every phone call since then has gone like this:

Me: hello?

Dad: hello it’s me.

Me: oh hi.

Dad: how ARE you?

Me: ok I guess, a bit fed up of this weather but not…..

Dad: (butting across me) oh I’ve had enough of this weather. On Tuesday my shoes got soaked and I had to come home early and then……

So yeah he learnt to follow the social rule of asking how someone is, but evidently he has zero interest in the answer. He doesn’t really care how I am. (BTW I am certainly not suggesting you don’t care how your DH is!!!!) He hasn’t called to ask me how I am. He’s called because he wants to talk at me, about himself. We have these social niceties (taking an interest in others, for example) but for my autistic dad that’s an abstract concept. He isn’t interested and he can’t pretend to be. But he can learn a rule. I want him to be actually interested in me, but when it’s so obvious he is just performing a task then yeah it makes me feel like I can’t be bothered. So I just say “yeah fine thanks” when he asks now. I’m not saying your DH did the same, just that what you described very much reminded me of a similar situation with my DF and how it made me feel.

This constant eggshells and feeling exhausted sound like how it feels to mask as an autistic person.

@PurpleBugz that’s a really interesting comment.
Because that’s exactely how I felt and how I expressed it to my counsellor when I was explaining our communication issues. (My counsellor didn’t get it though but then I don’t think she was that clued up on autism either).

So yes it’s the changing ourselves to fit them. The effort needed and how you also end up burnt out and hurt.

I also agree about it being a man thing. I don’t have the same issues communicating with a couple of friends are autistic, one of them diagnosed with PDA too.
I just don’t think it’s ONLY a man thing but rather a mixture of autism and male entitlement. Well at least with my dh!
None of it makes it right though.

@SpecialMangeTout I think you might have it there. Male entitled + ASD makes for this amount of effort and eggshells. I don’t know any autistic women not closely anyway. Only men. Funnily enough I don’t feel on eggshells with my DF though. He can suddenly start shouting for no reason but I’m so emotionally detached that I just leave and ignore him.

The packing has started. I’m off to find some plastic bags…..

I certainly think make entitlement adds to the issues, but like Bunnyhair I do see that my DH and think completely differently, such that we don't share basic ways of sensing and ordering the world.

Interesting evening. DP is packing. Of course it’s chaos. He’s on a Teams call in the kitchen. There are muddy flip flops soaking in our sink/washing up bowl 🤢. It’s 6:30 and dinner is not started. The packing isn’t done. There’s piles of clothes everywhere….. the work call does not appear to be wrapping up quickly. (DP is a fan of repetition and sound of own voice. No calls are quick, I have learned!)

So I try to start dinner for the DC. I need to use the sink. Obvs! I try to ask him where I can move the flip flops to. He waves me away. So after a bit I take them out the washing up bowl and put them down out of the way. I can see he is annoyed.

He gets off the work call and says they need to be in the sink. I reply well I need to use the sink as I am cooking the kids’ dinner. I can’t not use the sink. He tells me I should have found a different washing up bowl. I say no, that is the washing up bowl that we use to clean our plates and cutlery. It’s you who should have used a different bowl. Using that for your muddy flip flops is a bit grim.

Well of course that was a criticism!!!! (I wish I knew how to get him to accept that he isn’t above criticism! He is a human and sometimes humans do things that deserve to be criticised. He seems to think NOTHING he does ever should be criticised. There is no deserved criticism. And yet he criticises me all the time!!!) So of course he responds by raising his voice that he WILL continue to use that washing up bowl as he sees fit. He is not going to change how he does things. That is the perfect place to clean his flip flops and makes perfect sense and is completely reasonable and he ABSOLUTELY WILL continue to do this as and when he wishes (the control thing….) and then of course he puts his flip flops back in the sink!! I ask him not to raise his voice and say well I don’t think it is hygienic and anyway it wasn’t convenient as it’s 6:30pm and the kids need to have dinner! He then says angrily that it wasn’t his fault he got a Teams call when he was in the middle of cleaning them and he was about to finish the job but the call came through and of course he would have cleaned up after himself but he wasn’t able to because someone called him (nice bit of deflection…) So I say well that’s fine, I’m sure you would, but the fact is you didn’t and I had to move them because I needed to use the sink! All said calmly. Then he roars something at me. I didn’t hear what. I lost it. I’m so tired of politely asking him not to shout. I shouted at the top of my voice DO.NOT.RAISE.YOUR.VOICE.TO.ME!!!!! (It was really loud!) He looked quite taken aback. And he started to say I had been haranguing him. I said I don’t care DO NOT RAISE YOUR VOICE TO ME! (I know, I am a terrible hypocrite, but I just thought see how you like it then!!!) He continued on about how he was justified as he was being harangued. I said no, you spoke far more than I did. I just expressed why I wasn’t very happy about what you were doing. But he wouldn’t have it kept on saying I’d been going on and on and on about it. Then another Teams call came through. And off he went.

Then he came back. Kissed me. And said sorry for shouting. It was unhelpful. Let’s just be nice!

Blow me down. I’m not going to roar at him routinely. But I made my point (about the shouting, not about the flip flops which I fear are a lost cause!)

LOL, Busty, I find that the infrequent occasions where I cave and go off on one get a better response than my usual carefully worded approach to issues, which tends to elicit a surprised and indignant 'So you're saying it's MY fault???'. Because nothing could possibly be his fault.
But routinely roaring probably wouldn't be the best idea, as you say.

@DahliaMacNamara funny isn’t it. We try and try to be mindful and careful how things are said. On occasions that works for me. Is the effort expended worth it? As, like you say, most of the time no matter how careful I am he will
nearly always indignantly say “so it’s MY fault then?!” And then accuse ME of being the one obsessed by fault! I cannot bear hypocrisy (it’s my massive bugbear!) so you can imagine how that makes me feel.

Sometimes I want to say “actually yes, it is entirely YOUR fault”. But that would start an argument. And other times I want to say “errr no, what are you on about? I’m not talking about fault. Why are you bringing fault into it?” But then that doesn’t seem to bring about a great outcome either as he’ll just go off on one about how much I love to blame him for stuff (which I am not blaming him for!)

Maybe the short sharp shock is the best approach. Although didn’t stop him going on and on justifying his horrible shouting by saying I’d been haranguing him. Apparently expressing an opinion about something I don’t like is counted as “haranguing”. That would be fine except when he isn’t pleased about something I’ve done he will spend ten minutes repeating himself over and over getting more and more irate. But of course that’s fine and certainly could not be considered haranguing in any way. (Ahhh we are back on hypocrisy I see….. sigh!)

It's the 'one rule for him' that's so galling, isn't it? DH can monologue for aaaaages, whether it's to de-stress after work or express his views on you name it, but if I manage to get more than one and a half sentences out, I get a 'don't go ON about it'. Very frustrating.

Yes, my life. I am unable to go on about things because I am continually interrupted(by someone who loves to go on and on and on, but also tell me off for going on!)

I most certainly did not harangue him about the flip flops. I was displeased but measured. I simply didn’t agree that soaking his flip flops in our washing up bowl was convenient at dinner time or hygienic (at any time). But to say so is apparently “haranguing”. Conversely to repeatedly tell me in no in certain terms he is going to continue doing this, will absolutely NOT be changing this practice for anyone, how not is perfectly acceptable and reasonable, how I am being unreasonable by not using a different bowl for washing up, how it wasn’t his fault, how he can’t help someone Teamsing him, how he would have cleaned up, how he ALWAYS cleans up and to say all this more than once in a raised angry voice….. this isn’t “going on”. 🤨

The one rule for him and a different one for me may be the hardest part for me. I loathe hypocrisy. I just caught myself saying something to my DS that my guilt tripping emotionally blackmailing DF does to me!!! And I am about to send a message to my DS (who has gone out) to apologise for being such a hypocrite!! I hate it. I hate it when I do it. I hate it when anyone does it. I have told my DP that I really struggle with this. But of course he got the wrong end of the stick and said I was “obsessed” (favourite word) with comparison!!!!! 😳

Hi this is my first time posting. I’m ND and so is my partner of 4 years. We are quite different though in our personalities. I’m tidy and he hoards EVERYTHING….which isn’t the topic of my thread but it drives me bonkers.

What is really bothering me is that he keeps asking me questions or starting a conversation when I’m not listening. I’m busy with the baby or focusing on cooking or in the supermarket or in another room. I can’t do both things at once. He’ll then not answer me if I ask a question about what he thinks we’ve already discussed. I tell him that unless I’m actively looking at him and talking in the conversation then I haven’t heard him. He won’t repeat the topic and says well you should have been listening. I don’t know how to make him understand that a conversation has to be two ways with the other person engaged.

So yeah he learnt to follow the social rule of asking how someone is, but evidently he has zero interest in the answer. He doesn’t really care how I am. (BTW I am certainly not suggesting you don’t care how your DH is!!!!) He hasn’t called to ask me how I am. He’s called because he wants to talk at me, about himself. We have these social niceties (taking an interest in others, for example) but for my autistic dad that’s an abstract concept. He isn’t interested and he can’t pretend to be. But he can learn a rule. I want him to be actually interested in me, but when it’s so obvious he is just performing a task then yeah it makes me feel like I can’t be bothered. So I just say “yeah fine thanks” when he asks now. I’m not saying your DH did the same, just that what you described very much reminded me of a similar situation with my DF and how it made me feel.

^ I really relate to this comment. Learning the social rules only goes so far though doesn't it? If there isn't something authentic behind it such as a desire to know me more, a curiosity about something etc it's just so superficial it reinforces the distance between us.

Perhaps the social rule needs to be even more comprehensive such as a social story about how to keep a friend: ask how my day was, look at me not your phone whilst I reply, listen and don't interrupt me, ask follow up questions to learn more about one aspect of what I've been talking about, express any genuine interest, compassion or empathy you feel towards me at the end of me talking.

@Rainbow03 hoarding drives me nuts. Every spare bit of space in our house is full of junk.

A local cafe was updating their crockery and offered their sets for free on a local Facebook page. We now have a dinner service for almost 40. Why? Just why?

That’s very annoying! My DP often says I’ve agreed to things which I have no memory of but I suspect he’s asked me when I was only half listening and I’ve given a vague non committal answer which he’s then interpreted as agreement. My fault really. I should try and listen or say “I’m a bit distracted right now, can you ask me later?” but ADHD means I’m often doing two or three things at once and thinking about four other things! I don’t know the answer. But sympathies, as yes him refusing to discuss it as already discussed would be very annoying!

@Daftasabroom its one of the issues I struggle to accept. Any old bit of packaging and drawers and drawers of old cables and charges that fit nothing. The worst was every pair of shoes he’d owned incase the shoes laces were useful one day. All his clothes since being a teenager oh I could go on.