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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

989 replies

Daftasabroom · 15/03/2024 14:44

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BustyLaRoux · 09/04/2024 07:25

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 08/04/2024 22:20

I’m not sure I made sense but basically saying he always puts the blame on to me for his moods as it’s the way I talk to him. Not what he has done so to speak. I’m always being told I’m unreasonable or over reacting for example

Completely hear you! It’s the cannot accept criticism in any form thing. Even if you choose your words really carefully the moodiness will begin because you’ve criticised him and he cannot just accept he did / didn’t do something and say “oh right, sorry, didn’t think” and which is a valid thing for you to feel a bit miffed about. I always find that if I’m a bit miffed, he will ensure he trumps my mood by being MORE annoyed than I am! Annoyed about me being annoyed when I wasn’t that annoyed in the first place!! But suddenly now I’m having to deal with his sullen mood. And it can last for hours! And all I wanted to say was “oh, you’ve eaten all the whatnot!” Not that big a deal really. Only now it is because that’s taken as criticism and now he will be grumpy for ages!

My DP will often say “well YOU do this” and bat it back at me. And I say “well we’re not talking about me in this situation, can we get back on point?” And he will very annoyingly say “oh it’s back to you, is it? Nothing like a bit of deflection!!! You really can’t handle any form of negative feedback at all, can you??!” And fails to see the irony that it was me who started the conversation in the first place about something I wasn’t happy about. He deflects, blames me for something and then complains about me deflecting!!! It drives me nuts!!!!!!!

I don’t have the answer really. We did have some counselling for a while and the counsellor said to focus on the feelings and try to keep “YOU did x” type of language out of the conversation. I didn’t work with my DP as he couldn’t really manage it. But I tried it the other day. And it was more successful than usual!

ThischarmingHam · 09/04/2024 08:15

My DP will often say “well YOU do this” and bat it back at me. And I say “well we’re not talking about me in this situation, can we get back on point?” And he will very annoyingly say “oh it’s back to you, is it? Nothing like a bit of deflection!!! You really can’t handle any form of negative feedback at all, can you??!” And fails to see the irony that it was me who started the conversation in the first place about something I wasn’t happy about. He deflects, blames me for something and then complains about me deflecting!!! It drives me nuts!!!!!!

I didn’t recognise this very typical response in my DC dad until I saw it in our diagnosed child. It’s maddening. Can you say a bit more about what has worked for you?

LittleSwede · 09/04/2024 09:02

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 08/04/2024 22:20

I’m not sure I made sense but basically saying he always puts the blame on to me for his moods as it’s the way I talk to him. Not what he has done so to speak. I’m always being told I’m unreasonable or over reacting for example

I hear you, even though I am very careful in the way in which I phrase any request or question about anything, which could in DH's eyes be perceived as criticism, I still end up with a moody retaliation and grumpiness.

For example, DH has a tendency to leave piles of stuff on his 'side' of our dining-table and most of the time I don't say anything as it will end up being my fault that he hasn't got anywhere else to put things (He has a whole office for this things and several shelves with boxes for 'stuff' in the lounge but unless he can see it, he will forget where things are - I get this is an ADHD thing so have come to accept that a section of the dining-table will always have stuff on it). The other week he'd left a pair of sock (possibly clean) on the napkin-tray and I carefully queried this as I felt that my limit had somehow been reached when socks were lying on top of the very napkins that we wipe our mouths with. Que a massive defensive rant about how he didn't have anywhere to put X, Y and Z (other items next to said napkin tray) and therefore the socks had no place to go but on top of the napkin tray. I'm almost chuckling writing this down as t is just so absurd!

Unfair as it is I mostly juts let things go and slip as it's not worth the associated moods and snappiness whenever I don't agree with him on something, question why he has done something a certain way, or dare to ask him to move something. It's exhausting!

LittleSwede · 09/04/2024 09:21

Being autistic myself I get that we need to make some reasonable allowances for each other but there must be a way to do this fairy and equally, without on person 'stretching' themselves further than the other and risking burn out.

I had a long term relationship in my late teens/early 20s, he was/is very likely ND too and although he was extremely messy and disorganised in his living standards, he was always kind and respectful to me. In the 6 years we were together we rarely argued or upset each other, we just grew apart and parted fairly amicably. What I can now reflect on and take from that relationship is that as a person who hates confrontation, conflict and drama, I am happiest with calm people who are predictable in their behavior and not prone to moodiness. No one is perfect but if I look at my longterm friendships they are all likely ND but of the quiet and calm type. I never argue of fall out with them, we never shout or treat each other with disrespect. So why on earth did I pick a partner who is the exact opposite!?! I guess he is fun and clever and can be very thoughtful at times. We have loads of interests in common and do have fund together, we just don't seem to be so compatible for living together and all that this entails.

BustyLaRoux · 09/04/2024 09:22

ThischarmingHam · 09/04/2024 08:15

My DP will often say “well YOU do this” and bat it back at me. And I say “well we’re not talking about me in this situation, can we get back on point?” And he will very annoyingly say “oh it’s back to you, is it? Nothing like a bit of deflection!!! You really can’t handle any form of negative feedback at all, can you??!” And fails to see the irony that it was me who started the conversation in the first place about something I wasn’t happy about. He deflects, blames me for something and then complains about me deflecting!!! It drives me nuts!!!!!!

I didn’t recognise this very typical response in my DC dad until I saw it in our diagnosed child. It’s maddening. Can you say a bit more about what has worked for you?

So the other day I decided I wanted to tell my DP that something he repeats often about a type of person he looks down on is upsetting to me because in another breath he will lump me in with that type of person. A type that clearly he looks on with derision. I decided I would need to be really clear that I didn’t want him to say that anymore so there was no confusion about what I was asking for.

Instead of saying “YOU really upset me when YOU do…...” I said “when you talk about me in those terms I find it really upsetting because you often mention that type of person as someone who disgusts you and I feel like you obviously mean me. What it says to me is that I am someone you look down on. Even if that’s not what you mean, that’s how it makes me feel. It actually really upsets me and I don’t want you to do it anymore please”.

Tried to keep it about my feelings. Acknowledge he may not have meant it that way.

Of course he deflected and said “well you talk down about people who do x and that obviously means me!”

So I said “actually no, I don’t say that about you, but we are not talking about what I do, we are talking about how I feel about something you do which I find upsetting”.

He replied “oh back to you then!” (As he always does)

I said “yes, THIS conversation is about MY feelings. It was me who started the conversation and I want to stay focused on that. But I am perfectly happy to have the conversation you want another time. But not now”.

He tried with the “nothing like a bit of deflection!” (Typical, fails to see the irony!)

I said “I am not deflecting, I am staying on track. We can have your conversation another time. I just want to stick with what I started with and that is that I find it very upsetting when you talk about my “obsession” with x because you express often what you think about people who are “obsessed with x”. And that makes me feel shitty. I feel like I disgust you even if that isn’t the case. I would therefore prefer you don’t comment on me doing x anymore. It is really upsetting me”.

I then got an “ok fine. I won’t mention it again”.

I said “thank you. To reiterate I am very happy to have a conversation about something I do that upsets you. If and when you want to”.

Then got a load of grumbling about how I never listen and he won’t be able to mention anything ever as I always deflect!!!

I said “no, I am happy to listen but if you try to do it in the middle of me talking about something I am upset about then that isn’t the best time to bring it up”

Of course he had to say “no no, you’re incapable of listening……” and walk off.

I suspect this was said as a parting shot so as to not lose face as he had acquiesced to my request. He does have to have the last word. He does have to find something to blame me for. But if am calm and firm and keep the conversation on track and about my feelings, then he can listen. He doesn’t like it, but he will receive it.

I suppose the ‘cannot stand to be criticised’ is never going to go away. Whatever you say is always going to be received as criticism. But there are degrees of criticism. There’s him understanding that I am upset but understanding this is more about my feelings than about something he’s done, rather than just me criticising what he’s done. In this case I was careful not to say he had done anything wrong per se, just that it upsets me and I would prefer it if he didn’t do it when I am present. Which is different to “you’re so mean to me, it’s awful the way you go about people being obsessed with x, YOU really hurt my feelings” which is about blame and will be taken badly. (But even though I tried to keep it about me, he still didn’t like it and tried his usual deflection and blame, but it was a more half hearted effort than usual and he didn’t fly off the handle as he often does when he thinks I’m just getting at him).

LittleSwede · 09/04/2024 09:47

@BustyLaRoux I think you worded what you said to your DP very nicely, it sounds completely reasonable and is phrased with a focus on how his words are making you feel and you are politely asking him to refrain form making such comments again.

BustyLaRoux · 09/04/2024 10:02

LittleSwede · 09/04/2024 09:02

I hear you, even though I am very careful in the way in which I phrase any request or question about anything, which could in DH's eyes be perceived as criticism, I still end up with a moody retaliation and grumpiness.

For example, DH has a tendency to leave piles of stuff on his 'side' of our dining-table and most of the time I don't say anything as it will end up being my fault that he hasn't got anywhere else to put things (He has a whole office for this things and several shelves with boxes for 'stuff' in the lounge but unless he can see it, he will forget where things are - I get this is an ADHD thing so have come to accept that a section of the dining-table will always have stuff on it). The other week he'd left a pair of sock (possibly clean) on the napkin-tray and I carefully queried this as I felt that my limit had somehow been reached when socks were lying on top of the very napkins that we wipe our mouths with. Que a massive defensive rant about how he didn't have anywhere to put X, Y and Z (other items next to said napkin tray) and therefore the socks had no place to go but on top of the napkin tray. I'm almost chuckling writing this down as t is just so absurd!

Unfair as it is I mostly juts let things go and slip as it's not worth the associated moods and snappiness whenever I don't agree with him on something, question why he has done something a certain way, or dare to ask him to move something. It's exhausting!

Just wondering if “is there somewhere else I can move these socks to please?” would sound less like blame? I’m certainly not suggesting you’ve been unreasonable in any way and I would also find the socks on napkins a bit 🤢 and would find it hard not to shriek “why are these here???!” lol!

I am a very tidy person and my DP is really messy. I have to (a) remind myself it’s not because he is lazy, he just has a different approach to me - I tidy up as I go along and he will wait until it has piled up and then deal with it all at once. I hate his approach!!!! But I have to remind myself it’s just a different approach to me. (b) remind myself of the things he does do to help me out. That means I am more inclined to tidy up after him as it’s a reciprocal thing and then I don’t feel so put upon. (c) lower my standards. When he’s away the house is spotless. This is how I prefer to live but I can’t maintain that standard when he’s here or I would be run ragged clearing up after him. So I relax a bit (which ironically isn’t very relaxing to me!) but I have to accept our kitchen table will be like your dining table and always have a pile of papers (as will the sofa and the fireplace 😡😩) and (d) if I am really bothered by something I try to say “where else could these go?” Or “is it Ok for me to move this somewhere else?” And I feel I am making it clear this mess needs to move but am trying to be part of the solution rather than am having a go at him. Reading it back it maybe sounds a bit pass agg, but I don’t mean it like that. I’m trying to indirectly say I would prefer something to be moved without him feeling blamed.

It works better than “why have you left this here?” Or “I am fed up with the mess you’ve left” which is nice and direct but will
make him feel criticised and we all know how that ends…… 🤣

ThischarmingHam · 09/04/2024 10:04

DaftAsaBroom you set a little lightbulb off for me in a previous post. Neither of my parents have ever said I love you to me. I have come to suspect my mum is autistic recently and have long thought my dad is. Multiple family members with ASD both sides and my own DC dx too. I think I’m NT. not sure. maybe some ADHD or maybe just a bit traumatised by upbringing.
Is this (probable) family background of relationships why I have been drawn to probably/definitely ASD partners? Looking back I can see a few other partners of mine that may have been ND and didn’t have help or recognition/diagnosis.

LittleSwede · 09/04/2024 11:22

@BustyLaRoux “is there somewhere else I can move these socks to please?” I like that, it reduces the demand, which might just work. Can't remember exactly what I said but it was very gently put, yet still probably requesting him to do it which is never a good idea!

I like things tidy too but have tried to find a compromise with messier rooms and some areas which I try to keep a bit tidier.

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 09/04/2024 11:28

These are all so familiar it’s rather depressing as I have been seeking counselling and tried talking so much but it feels it never going to change and as such marriage is over.
I get the deflection too- I say something and he said “but you left xyz here”
i am always saying stop deflecting to me.
we saw a counsellor and he told a story of how I asked him to clean the bathroom and she said that I should have phrased it in a different way and that fed into him believing it’s me and the way I speak to him. She would not let me tell
my side of the story and believed his! Of course he made it sound like I had spoken in this way!
this morning he took dd to school and I asked why he hadn’t taken her coat? He frown at me and I said it’s raining why didn’t she have it?
he said “ she identified where ir was and said she didn’t want it”
I text and asked her why didn’t she take her coat today? She text “I didn’t know where it was”
so he lies also

BustyLaRoux · 09/04/2024 12:56

LittleSwede · 09/04/2024 11:22

@BustyLaRoux “is there somewhere else I can move these socks to please?” I like that, it reduces the demand, which might just work. Can't remember exactly what I said but it was very gently put, yet still probably requesting him to do it which is never a good idea!

I like things tidy too but have tried to find a compromise with messier rooms and some areas which I try to keep a bit tidier.

Same here. Kitchen is his domain (Hell hole!!). Lounge is mine (beautifully tidy). 😂

BustyLaRoux · 09/04/2024 13:18

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 09/04/2024 11:28

These are all so familiar it’s rather depressing as I have been seeking counselling and tried talking so much but it feels it never going to change and as such marriage is over.
I get the deflection too- I say something and he said “but you left xyz here”
i am always saying stop deflecting to me.
we saw a counsellor and he told a story of how I asked him to clean the bathroom and she said that I should have phrased it in a different way and that fed into him believing it’s me and the way I speak to him. She would not let me tell
my side of the story and believed his! Of course he made it sound like I had spoken in this way!
this morning he took dd to school and I asked why he hadn’t taken her coat? He frown at me and I said it’s raining why didn’t she have it?
he said “ she identified where ir was and said she didn’t want it”
I text and asked her why didn’t she take her coat today? She text “I didn’t know where it was”
so he lies also

It’s so hard isn’t it. My DP rewrites things and claims them as absolute fact. And he just shuts me down. If I suggest he has misremembered he gets angry and says I have misremembered or misheard or accuses me of calling him a liar! It’s adversarial and unhelpful!!! I think he genuinely believes what he’s saying though. It’s really frustrating because I feel as though he always applies his negativity filter to whatever I say, adapts the words I actually used inside his head, and then gets annoyed about words he insists I said and which I know perfectly well I did not say and didn’t mean. But to say so is to call him a liar! Which I suppose he is! But I know he doesn’t realise he is. I have to be so so careful with what I say and how I say it.

With the coat, I wonder if he made an assumption your DD had rejected the coat and has now rewritten that as fact rather than just a thought he had. So yes he could be lying but equally if he is anything like my DP then he doesn’t actually know he is lying. There is a distinct blurring of thoughts and facts in our house. To the point where I used to question (in my head) if he was actually deranged! Or yes, maybe he is just lying to get out of “trouble”!!

Bunnyhair · 09/04/2024 13:39

@LittleSwede re: socks on napkins - the only way to get around moody defensiveness in our PDA house is with humour. So either, ‘love these new napkins! Where’d you get them?’ Or an OTT pantomime parody of pass-agg nagging (‘and is THIS where we put our socks these days young man?’) to which he can respond in an overblown role of his own. I only worked this out after our DS was diagnosed and I recognised that humour and role play are the only ways it’s really possible to connect with him.

BustyLaRoux · 09/04/2024 13:53

Oh yes, second that @Bunnyhair ! Humour is definitely my friend!!!

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 09/04/2024 14:45

Yes he could actually believe that as a truth I agree or I can see he wants to get out of trouble since he always says he can never do anything right…

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 09/04/2024 14:49

I tried to discuss with him earlier about how he always seems to be on the defensive etc as his response is that I’m always attacking him. I said yes you are predisposed to thinking that so I don’t stand a chance as you receive all interaction in this way. He just looked blank

LittleSwede · 09/04/2024 14:55

Bunnyhair · 09/04/2024 13:39

@LittleSwede re: socks on napkins - the only way to get around moody defensiveness in our PDA house is with humour. So either, ‘love these new napkins! Where’d you get them?’ Or an OTT pantomime parody of pass-agg nagging (‘and is THIS where we put our socks these days young man?’) to which he can respond in an overblown role of his own. I only worked this out after our DS was diagnosed and I recognised that humour and role play are the only ways it’s really possible to connect with him.

Love this! DH can actually be very good at using humour and I'm the one who is a bit slow witted... But I like this approach, thanks!

BustyLaRoux · 09/04/2024 16:01

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 09/04/2024 14:49

I tried to discuss with him earlier about how he always seems to be on the defensive etc as his response is that I’m always attacking him. I said yes you are predisposed to thinking that so I don’t stand a chance as you receive all interaction in this way. He just looked blank

I absolutely know what you mean. If I say “can you not do x as it’s going to get broken if you continue”, he receives that as me having a go at him.

And it’s so alien to me because if and when he asks me nicely to do something differently, my response is usually “oh yes of course, sorry”

But if I ask he will wearily say “Yes DEAR!” in a very sarcastic way as if I’m nagging. Which I’m not at all.

What shall I do about this……

DP often takes his DC away to visit family and so on. He uses my luggage. I don’t mind. But I am quite hygiene conscious and I have asked that they use laundry bags for their dirty washing as I notice he just shoves his dirty underwear in the zip pocket of the lid (inside of the case) but it’s his own case so not my problem. But when his DC use my cases I have asked him to ensure they use bags as I don’t want the smell of stinky used socks and pants in my internal suitcase pockets permeating smells onto my clean clothes!

Anyway last time I got my case out, I found his DS’s dirty underwear stuffed in one of the pockets!! I removed it 🤮 and said nicely to my DP “if DSS wants to use my case can you remind him to use a bag for his washing please as I’ve just found his dirty underwear in the pockets”. Said it politely. Hid my annoyance. His response was, of course, a very weary “yes DEAR!”

I told my SIL and she said that would be the last fucking time he used her cases if it were her!!! 😂

He’s about to pack to take the DSC away again and I am so tempted to say “no actually. I asked you more than once to ensure it wasn’t being used as a dirty washing bag and you ignored me and when I reminded you about it you got annoyed and sighed yes dear at me! So no, you don’t get to borrow it again!” But this would case an argument and I don’t want to be petty.

Its just so annoying because when my DS borrowed my DP’s tools and left one of them in the garden, my DP got annoyed and told me and I went to my DS and gave him a bollocking for being disrespectful when using someone else’s things. He expects my DC to treat his things with respect (as do I!) but his own DC are above that it seems. Maybe he sees it as me being precious, or me indirectly criticising him for using his own suitcase as a laundry bag. I’ve told him I think it’s grim but said he’s free to use his own luggage however he wants of course! However if he wants to borrow mine then this is my condition. Maybe it goes back to not liking being told (or have his DC told) what to do. (He actively encourages his DC to refuse to do what they’re told by teachers if they don’t agree with the request and complain about the teachers!!!! It’s so damaging. But that’s a whole other thread I fear……)

Suggestions on how to handle this…??? I don’t want to be an arse, but I do not want his teenage son’s stinky socks and pants being shoved in the lid of my suitcase. He’s not the most hygienic of boys and it actually makes me feel physically sick just thinking about it! What can I say that won’t anger my DP and make him sigh “yes dear!!!” at me (if he does I will set fire to my suitcase just to stop him from using it, I fear!)

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 09/04/2024 16:48

Oh god we have the same dh this is so relatable. With this situation my dh would say I was over reacting. What do you say to that?!
I have to say I would say I’m sorry but no etc… but then again that’s why I can’t stop arguing with my dh. I think you have been reasonable and communicated well and he hasn’t respected this so it’s very hard to respond to. He won’t listen to what you say will he. Unless you put pedal bin liners in the pockets?

SpecialMangeTout · 09/04/2024 17:14

@BustyLaRoux ive been in a similar position re using my stuff. (Dh gave my stuff to one of the dcs, wo telling me. Then I couldn’t find things etc…)
I did what your SIL said and basically said NO.

I can’t say I like that position. But if you are going to disrespect me, I’m not going to just accept it and then have to deal with me getting angry/upset I’ve yet again become invisible.

working4ever · 09/04/2024 18:41

@BustyLaRoux re the DC and school - has the school not picked up on this? Sorry that bit piqued my interest as DH does the same and school have twigged the poor influence.

Everything else is very familiar!

BustyLaRoux · 09/04/2024 19:32

@Forgoodnesssakemeagain and @SpecialMangeTout it is SOOO tempting to just say no. You didn’t respect my things or my feelings when I reminded you nicely. You know how much I HATE IT when you say “yes Dear!” at me and you said it when I was being perfectly reasonable. So fuck off and buy your own luggage!!!

But this would only create an argument and I hate arguing. I also hate being a doormat though. I need to find a middle ground. I will probably put carrier bags in the pockets and ask the DSC if they can please use the bags. And I’ll tell my DP could be please ensure his DC use the bags as it really grosses me out to have used underwear stuffed in the pockets of my case. I’ll try and make it about me and my feelings. Maybe “grossed out” is a bit too emotive and critical. Maybe I’ll just say I really don’t like it.

Forgoodnesssakemeagain · 09/04/2024 20:28

Yes don’t say grossed out as that won’t go well. I think the carrier bags or bin liners is a good half way! Let us know how it goes!!
very odd tonight - dh off on the train over night for work. Cuts me dead in my sentence and says his train has been cancelled so there are only 2 left, one in ten mins and one in over an hour and half so he is sorry but he’s got to rush out..
I check and there is not train cancellation. I’m suspicious he just ran out of time as he has trouble managing time and was running late and didn’t want to say but now I’m worried I’m looking into it too
much but don’t understand the fake train cancellation. Oh well!

SpecialMangeTout · 09/04/2024 20:43

Tbh I found with dh that the less I try and explain myself the better it is.

So my answer would be ‘well no. I’d rather not.’
No lengthy explanation about gross underwear or how he was disrespectful last time etc…. Nothing confrontational either.

I found that if I’m getting angry/upset/emotional, dh switches off.
If I start to explain, I tend to over explain (that’s my own trauma reaction). That doesn’t help either.
Plus tbh dh knows. He doesn’t need to be told ‘again’.

Flittingaboutagain · 09/04/2024 20:48

The amount of tying oneself up in knots to not trigger someone else is exhausting. Just reading the thought going into the luggage....do you feel your partners or spouses spend this much time and energy on the relationship too (just in a different way perhaps)?