Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD: support thread 10

[Daftasabroom]

New thread.

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.

ND people are more than welcome, some of us are in ND:ND relationships.

It's complicated and it's emotional.

I’m ND and so are both my DC. I feel very welcome here.
Regarding PDA, I think what I struggle with is my DP’s pride in it! He genuinely boasts about how he will do the opposite of what’s asked. His PDA is nowhere near as strong as @Duggeehugs82 you describe. There are plenty of things I’ll ask him to do. I never know whether I’ll get happy to comply, a weary “yes dear” or flat refusal. It’s not all the time. But for example if I’m in a hurry to leave the house and he senses I’m getting a bit agitated and really need him to hurry up, he will slow down on purpose. And he isn’t struggling mentally about whether to hurry up or not. There is no battle or panic in his head, he just enjoys feeling like he is above being controlled and he enjoys demonstrating this by visibly slowing down to show me he is in control. And he seems pleased with himself. So whilst I can see that the experience you describe of having PDA does sound really hard, my experience of living with a different person with PDA is really difficult and his pride in it makes me feel really cross because it creates so much discord and I don’t see how he can be pleased about that. But I take nothing away from your experience and it is helpful to try and understand the other side, certainly.

@BustyLaRoux I resonate with this as well. DH has PDA and will sometimes agree to a social ‘demand’ and then be an absolute shit to people, as a form of payback for his agreement to go. E.g. he went to his nephew’s birthday party that he didn’t feel able to get out of, and told me later, with real pleasure, about how he made the event bearable by spending a long time winding up someone’s elderly grandparents about being ‘posh’, and deliberately making them uncomfortable. It’s as though he can overcome the initial reflexive refusal, but needs to ‘equalize’ when he is in the situation that he can’t control, by being a complete twat. And he really believes this is OK, and fair, and funny.

And this is so different from the good faith efforts to collaborate and understand one another that you describe, @Duggeehugs82.

@BustyLaRoux years ago when I was trying to fathom out DW I thought I saw passive aggressive behavior, after a while I figured it was actually passive control. So a subconscious attempt to control a situation (and don't we all need some of that) but without any responsibility or accountability.

Hello! No this isn’t my experience but it sounds v much like your DP could well be ASD. I do relate to the first of your points about being hypersensitive and going moody for long periods. You have all my sympathies. It sounds very hard. 🙁

In all my reading about learning about pda I have never come across a taking pleasure in it. Its a chronic anxiety driven disorder ( there is lots of speak about not thinking naming of it appropriate as does not include anxiety, i would wonder if that is that really pda or anything else? ODD is another but I don't actually know what that is. So couldn't comment. On that specifically

As I say, I can only speak about MY experience of it. My DP literally tells me how he takes pleasure and pride in it. That’s all I have to go on. He doesn’t struggle with it. Though I think I see it in my DD who is ADHD (not ASD) and I can see her little brain really struggling with wanting to comply but being unable to. I really sympathise with her. I do not sympathise with my DP who relishes it and makes life really difficult for me, but he enjoys being difficult and enjoys the feeling of control it gives him. And I know this because he tells me this!

Well I think and obviously this is just random person but he's either telling u that because it makes me him (have some misguided) feel better about having it or he has something altogether different or he's just a nasty person and 'using' his Neurodiversity as a reason to excuse shitty behaviour. I've looked again at the pda society who have a lot of Information and they state that is an anxiety driven condition, Nothing about it is pleasurable for sufferer.

Thank you for your input @Duggeehugs82
There is one thing I’ve always found extremely hard to do is to separate what is really pure ASD and what is basically being an arse. I think with dh, the two are very much mixed and hard to differenciate sometimes.

.Maybe this is due to the fact it’s extremely hard for NT to ‘get’ the way someone with ASD thinks (and the other way around)?? I certainly feel that the descriptions of ASD often dont make sense to me (but personal experiences like yours very much do).

He isn’t diagnosed PDA. I believe he has a form of this but I am not a diagnostician and I haven’t claimed to be one.

My experience is that he has a pathological need to feel in control. He enjoys the feeling of being control. Feeling controlled by others makes him angry, defiant and belligerent. Perhaps that his how he expresses his anxiety.

And as a result if he ever feels like someone is compelling him to do something which he doesn’t want to do, he simply won’t do it and seems to enjoy the feeling of control it gives him. He has to be in control. Similarly if something is urgent, he will procrastinate and prioritise really random things in a bid to avoid facing up to things. Again I wonder if this is because he cannot abide the feeling of being controlled. I know that with deadlines looming it makes him very anxious. He can’t sleep. He knows it needs doing and yet invariably he will avoid it and ends up in court and being fined….. I know he doesn’t enjoy that aspect of it. But the day to demands (eg please hurry up or we will be late!) make him literally do the opposite. And that part he quite enjoys. I guess it cements his self image as someone who is in control and he takes satisfaction from that.

@BustyLaRoux pathological need to feel in control

Don't we all, but the way we achieve that can be very very damaging.

Yes exactly this. For me I don’t have an issue with being asked to do stuff. If I’m with someone who wants me to do something which is important to them then it’s not an issue. I’m quite laid back about going with the flow. (Although I’m super uptight about lots of others things! lol!) But the exerting control as if to say “you can’t make me!” seems so petulant and alien to me! Of course I am not saying everyone who suffers with PDA is childish or that they take any enjoyment from it, just that for me, in MY experience of being with someone who seems to exhibit some signs of a PDA profile, my feeling is that it is childish (only in relation to my DP though, and how I feel to be on the end of it). I am absolutely not speaking for anyone else. I’m sorry if I’ve upset anyone who thought I was talking about anything other than my own experience. I can see a couple of other people’s experiences have resonated with my own. But of course for most people this may not be the case at all.

Hello, may I join this thread please?

There is so much that resonates here with our marriage and I must confess I read through a couple of old threads too as in some strange way it gave me comfort to not be alone in all of this. For a long time I have wondered if my DH had some NPD traits (he may well have, they do cross over with ND sometimes) and it was interesting to see this discussed on a previous thread. I am just trying to figure out what is acceptable and not and if there is a way forward.

I am currently being assessed for ASD and DH is very likely to be ADHD as well as ASD. Our 9 yo daughter has a dx of ASD but we suspect PDA, or a least a strong PDA profile. We all very clearly have needs and it seems to me like I am trying to make sure everyone else's needs are met, at the cost of mine not being met and my health taking a beating.

What has been slowly driving me more and more towards detachment is that some of my DH's behaviours when dysregulated are far too similar to my ExH's, who was very abusive and most likely NPD, rather than ND. I tend to go into 'flight' mode when DH gets snappy,irritable, moody or raises his voice at me. DH has also made fun of me and mocked me in the past, belittling me and playing on my insecurities, all disguised as a joke. It seems he is so insecure in himself he feels some need to 'pick on' me. Yet can be so encouraging of my accomplishments at other times and will be very loving and compliment me most days. But I don't know if I can forgive and forget some of his past behaviours, whether they are due to his ND or not. I know I struggle with dysregulation too but I tend to get teary and withdraw rather than act outwards.

I have tried to explained how hard I find things (some of his behaviours) so many times over the last year and and although he seems to listen and there have been some changes for the better, I can't see how this is feasible. He is trying some strategies to help relieve stress and manage his moods, (yoga, exercise, health supplements, Wim Hof breathing etc) and but will then switch to saying there is nothing wrong with him, I knew what he was like when I married him etc.

Sorry, that ended up longer than I intended.

@LittleSwede a warm welcome on this thread. Please feel free to post, rant or lurk in the background. Whatever feels right to you.

We all very clearly have needs and it seems to me like I am trying to make sure everyone else's needs are met, at the cost of mine not being met and my health taking a beating.

I think this is a recurrent issue on these threads. As well as where do you put boundaries and how much leeway do you give someone because they have their own issues (whether it’s ND or like myself some physical disability).

I can’t say I have the answer as I’m still battling through that and trying to find some clarity.
But one thing I’ve learnt from getting ill is that health is the most precious thing you have. Something we should all fight to protect because once it’s gone, it’s extremely hard to get back and life is shit.

So my advice to anyone would be. If your health is being affected, whether it’s physical or MH, then you need to do something about it.
And of whatever you tried too implement to protect your health isn’t working or isn’t well received, then move out.
Nothing is worth loosing your health over.

Thank you, what you say about health is bang on. My mum developed Fibromyalgia in her late 40's and she thinks this is partially down to long term stress and also people pleasing/keeping everyone else happy.

It's taken me so long to realise that I need to look after myself now too.

@LittleSwede What has been slowly driving me more and more towards detachment is that some of my DH's behaviours when dysregulated are far too similar to my ExH's, who was very abusive and most likely NPD, rather than ND. I tend to go into 'flight' mode when DH gets snappy,irritable, moody or raises his voice at me. DH has also made fun of me and mocked me in the past, belittling me and playing on my insecurities, all disguised as a joke.

I agree with @SpecialMangeTout's advice. Nothing is worth losing your health. The behaviour you describe above (which I experienced from my ex), will make you ill with stress - and so will the strain of trying to detach and ignore it. You might want to have a serious think about whether you want to continue in this relationship. It doesn't matter whether the cause of the behaviour is ASD, or NPD or poorly managed anxiety, if a relationship is doing you more harm than good, then it's time to end it.

@Kerryoh I feel like this needs to be a pinned post or something: anyone is allowed to leave a relationship that is making them miserable and ruining their health. Whatever the reason.

And presumably our partners feel as dissatisfied as we do, in different ways. DH needs a lot of support in day to day life, but it doesn’t need to be me providing that support. His ideal setup would probably be a housekeeper/accountant/PA who popped in a few times a week with the shopping, did some cleaning and laundry, answered his emails and paid his bills and renewed his prescriptions, identified what needed fixing about the house and sourced people to fix it, and paid them all. And sat silently for 30 minutes to listen to whatever DH felt like talking about that day. And then fucked off again. I don’t know what, if anything, he’d do for sex - that’s been a mystery to me for years now.

There’s literally nothing I give him that a paid carer & admin assistant couldn’t do a better job of. 🤷‍♀️ The situation is not that I’m a dream spouse and he’s a nightmare, or that I’m ‘normal’ and he’s not. We are just not compatible in terms of what we’re after.

Ideally, at this point in life. I’d just like to live in a small, manageable flat, only have myself and DC to clean up after & cater for, and have some childcare that DC can tolerate so I could up my hours at work and see friends / go to the cinema now and again.

If we could make this happen, it would be great, and I think we could have a perfectly amicable co-parenting relationship. But the money isn’t there to support two households. Plus I would need to find DH a place to live, and move him into it and recruit and manage the PA, and do a handover to her, because DH wouldn’t be able to sort his for himself. And DH would resist every step of the way, even though all the change would be in the service of a much greater quality of life for him.

So many people (of all neurotypes) are stuck in relationships for financial and practical reasons, particularly once DC are in the picture, and especially so if those DC have SEN.

But my marital situation feels tolerable because over the years, any erotic or playful part of me has just shrivelled up and died. I’m embracing life as a hardened battle axe and am getting as many of my needs met elsewhere as I can.

@Kerryoh Thank you, deep down I think I do know this and it has taken me two years to get here. Even though the signs were there for many years before.

@Bunnyhair It's good that you have detached yourself enough to make it tolerable. The scenario of the separate flats is something I've often thought of too, a sort of together apart thing.

I think DH feels dissatisfied in many ways too, he is lonely as i have detached so much and he (understandably) gets frustrated at times with being the main breadwinner, as I had to stop work to be DD's carer.

@LittleSwede I feel this in my bones. I love working and get a lot out of it - while DH hates it and struggles to stay in work. So we are miserable in this situation where he is breadwinner (far higher earning potential) and I’m working part time for low pay and caring for DS, and everyone is burnt out.

Our ideal situation would have both of us working & bringing in money so DH could work less, or do a job he likes more, and we could outsource some of the home admin. But DS’s needs are such that he can’t tolerate being looked after by anyone else, and he needs undivided attention. And he may not always be able to access school. So we’re stuck in these roles that don’t suit us, with no support. Which just emphasises all the difficult aspects of the relatiobship.

@Bunnyhair Very similar situation here re miserable work situations.

DD has not been able to attend school much since Reception (long story, has EHCP, still little support) I had to stop my part time work and I can't see how I will work again in the next few years.

@Bunnyhair and @LittleSwede
My heart goes to you. The situation you both are would be putting huge strain on any couple/family, regardless of the ND.

🫂🫂 to you both.

Hi all, it has been a while, thanks for starting the new thread. @worriedaboutleaving your story is nearly parallel to mine, even the words STBX used. You are not undesirable, you are not any of those things that this experience puts in your head. Sending you love and clarity.

What do we do about the response of “it’s the way you speak to me”
for context it’s whenever I have to say anything or dh has not done what I wanted.
I keep saying “it’s the way you receive it” but dh is adamant that I talk to him in a bit very nice way and this is all down to me.
Tonight he has come in and three things haven’t gone right- one he didn’t pick something up from the shop after I had asked him to, the second the way he told our dd off (took her phone off her instead of just communicating with her) …
anyway I did speak to him about them- when he didn’t get what I had asked I was disappointed and said so and did say he need d to talked to dd and not just take things off her.
i get met with moody face and atmosphere and then the same old “I’ve done things wrong for you all the time..”
I asked if he was in a mood and he said the whole I can never do anything right and I’m always wrong for you blah blah. But I said it’s not a big deal it’s the way he reacts that is. I didn’t rant and rave but was disappointed and I asked him nicely to speak to dd next time. I feel he puts the “nothing is ever good enough for you” on me all the time instead of just thinking yeah I got it wrong.
I explained all this and then got an “ok”
he never comments but says ok. Wtf I need to take it through and he’s just carried on..

I’m not sure I made sense but basically saying he always puts the blame on to me for his moods as it’s the way I talk to him. Not what he has done so to speak. I’m always being told I’m unreasonable or over reacting for example