Who are narcissists underneath when they aren’t mirroring a victim?

[Rainbow03]

I was just wondering about narcissism and how they mirror their victims so that they are attractive to them.

How does this not affect them being somebody else. Who are they when they are not mirroring someone? Doesn’t this make them feel very uncomfortable being someone else. Like when the person leaves them to they continue being the person they were mirroring?

I think that narcissists are so deeply insecure in who they really are that they rarely show themselves.

they’re so often “playing a role” as a way to feel they have some kind of power.

I suspect that narcissists come in two flavours: supremely arrogant so that they genuinely don't care that others have wants and needs, and so extremely damaged that they cannot see that others have wants and needs.

For the latter category I suspect it sneaks up on them - as children / young people they feel so desperate and powerless that as a survival mechanism they think only of themselves and their own needs. But the extremely challenging circumstances that create that sense of powerlessness is highly damaging and creates a sort of hole inside that they try to fill by any means possible from others ... we are social creatures, at our most fundamental. Not lone creatures coming together only for mating.

If that's right, then I think the second sort have been so damaged they don't have much sense of self. Plus maybe in their own weird way they are trying to establish a connection so they 'mirror' before the underlying difficult emotions lead them to power games and trying to dominate, which sucks everyone around them dry. Im not sure they have much of an integrated sense of self, only chaotic and self-contradictory needs with a desperate unhappy and unrestful emptiness at the core.

The extreme distress children go through to develop a life / personality like this is pitiable, but the resulting person is to be avoided.

Depends on the type but my diagnosed narc husband is nothing without someone to mirror. I've come to realise he doesn't actually like anything, which sounds weird as he does do stuff but he is doing things which someone says is good, so therefore he will do it because someone else thinks its good. If that person is out his life he will stop doing it.
He has no actual personality of his own (well except for being an angry petulant child)
He gets so mad if I'm sad or unhappy or upset about something, he cannot handle that, he wants me to be neutral or happy (but not too happy!) so he can feel that himself. He will mostly like be being numb, then he can be himself, numb.
He uses others phrases, mannerisms, accents, likes, dislikes everything. If he is alone and had no access to the outside world (like no internet or anything) he would just be led in a catatonic state. I know if I'm alone, I will do things I like, or things that make me happy and I enjoy. Without anyone around him he is nothing.

@MarmaladeOrangey it sounds really scary to think that they are literally nothing. When I left my ex he literally went insane, he started leaving these really bizarre notes and letters lying around. They often went along the lines of feeling empty, having no purpose or personality. He wrote things like his mission in life was to win me back. Until he found another lady who he claims saved him from himself, she has no idea! So now his mission is her.

Underneath they must be something, it’s hard to really understand?!

I know he liked and did things that made him look superior and important. I do things I like and he used to mock me because apparently they made me look stupid.

Did he actually like them, or did he like how doing them made him feel about him image and how he looked to the outside world?

Since diagnosis I've been noticing things I wouldn't have before. For example he never shows joy and very very rarely excitement. When we are doing nice things I can look at his face and he never is smiling or looking happy, or just looking around and taking in the moment, the sort of things you just do when you are doing something you enjoy. When we are in the moment of doing anything he just wants to get it done asap so its over and done with. He looks relieved when we get home and he sits on the sofa, turns the telly on and numbs out.

There is something somewhere underneath but it is hidden by the false self they have created to hide the person underneath.

@MarmaladeOrangey umm Im
not sure whether he got joy. I know he liked for example paying for people because it made him feel superior. He never did anything with me like re-decorating the house or doing the garden and having a laugh. Like you when out he wanted to go home, that or get drunk and be the centre of attention. He never looked happy on days out. When I said what’s wrong with you you need to make an effort for the child he would just shout at me . When we were home all he wanted to do was smoke weed and zone out, he was no use at all. He was either behaving in a way to get a reaction or praise or nothing.

@MarmaladeOrangey out of interest, and I mean this kindly, why do you stay?

He would do things like join charities and pay monthly because it made him feel good but at home talk badly about everyone. He said he was religious but was totally the opposite in his actions. Smoked weed and drank but would only buy the most expensive food because it was better and better for the body despite poisoning with weed etc. His accent and likes changed with different people, it was confusing. I’m not really sure who he wanted to be. He tried to be like me but I pissed him off as I’m not materialistic and he is so he didn’t like mirroring me. It was such a confusing time. I didn’t know who he was really apart form aggressive and expected things.

@Rainbow03 Sounds familiar but without the weed. My husband rarely laughs.

@DancesWithDucks a myriad of reasons and entanglements but I understand your question.

@MarmaladeOrangey is he violent? I left in the end to protect our daughter, she was 2 and he threw something at me and it hit her. I was terrified but I’ve never looked back.

@Rainbow03 mine was a school governor yet had nothing to do with our childrens lives. Had no idea what their school day was like (never asked any questions ever). Rarely spent time with them (unless they were doing something he wanted to do and even then he would get cross at them if they didn't do something his way) and never was involved with anything to do with the childrens schooling, didn't go to parents evening or school activities.

@MarmaladeOrangey it took me years to get out of my terrible relationship, though he wasn't narcissistic. It's not easy, is it.

Hes a covert narc. Took me decades to work it out. Children are adults now, since diagnosis I found out he was verbally and physically abusive to them when I wasn't around. Fortunately I was around most of the time.
pre diagnosis he wasn't violent, just totally emotionally abusive but in a covert, sneaky, gaslighting way. Since diagnosis we have had violent times.

@DancesWithDucks thank you for understanding. It is very hard, there isn't an area of my life that wouldn't have to change completely for me to leave. I'm not sure I have the mental strength for that and I would have to keep on top of all of these things to make the split work.

@MarmaladeOrangey mine was also a covert narc for most. But the times I didn’t back down he would get aggressive or if he couldn’t hide himself because he was tired or stressed. One time I asked him to please either tell me or buy more sugar if he used the last and he threw shoes at me. Another time I wouldn’t take the blame for his phone going missing and that didn’t end well. They Can’t be to blame, it didn’t compute so he blew up both times.

I don’t think engaging in complicated psychoanalysis as a lay person is ever accurate tbh. True narcissism is quite rare yet every other person seems to have a narcissistic relative on here. I would do some proper reading if you want to know rather than consulting users of a chat forum.

@MarmaladeOrangey in the end he verbally told me if I didn’t stop talking back he would do something I would regret. That was the end really and he let slip his mask too much.

@GoodnightAdeline I disagree, I think it’s in the not talking where the problems lie. It’s freeing to know you are not alone and many people don’t speak up out of fear.

I can relate!

@GoodnightAdeline my husband has a diagnosis and is under the mental health team for his disorder (not that it helps) and from my experience with this disorder and also living through a traumatic marriage I would tell any person in this situation to reach out and talk about it, even if it is just here. When you are in a marriage such as this it is all consuming, you are made to feel like the problem, told you are someone you are not, its constant and unrelenting. Often you have zero support or understanding from people around you as it is covert. Having these conversations online can be the start of the lifeline you need to get real help. Victims shouldn't be told to stop speaking, this is one of the main issues in their relationship with that person every day. They need and should start talking and hopefully it will help them start to move forward.

I don't think I'm a narcissist, but I am Autistic.
I used to get most jobs I applied for by either mirroring the interviewer, or using techniques that I learned - eye contact, smile, think about your answer, be confident in your answer.
(Whilst knowing I'd be found out one day as you can't keep it up forever - the odd fuck off to the boss here and there 😂).

My GP has known me for years and all of a sudden he's fake yawning during our appointment. I said to him if you're checking whether I have empathy or not, at least be proper tired! I also told him I couldn't empathise with him because I respected him and was slightly frightened of him.
He woke up after that 😂

Oh bum, but how I feel normally, little self confidence whilst appearing high achieving and over confident.
I can manipulate and change my personality to do so if needed.
I can read other people and spot a potential problem person to me a mile off.
I can shut down feelings so there are none.
I've self harmed terribly for most of my adult life, usually as a result of something I've done to someone else.

@JanglingJack We all mirror people slightly and are a bit different in different settings, social etiquette and all that. Its about the pathology of it.

Doesn’t sound like autism alone but I’m not going to diagnose. My ex self harmed before he turned to drugs then weed then to abusing people. He has a terrible relationship to himself therefore to everything and everyone else. But he is not aware of any of this and you wouldn’t be able to suggest he had any kind of problem.

Maybe they are so damaged. There is nothing there. But pain.
They weren't nurtured into adulthood. Or in childhood.