Who are narcissists underneath when they aren’t mirroring a victim?

[Rainbow03]

I was just wondering about narcissism and how they mirror their victims so that they are attractive to them.

How does this not affect them being somebody else. Who are they when they are not mirroring someone? Doesn’t this make them feel very uncomfortable being someone else. Like when the person leaves them to they continue being the person they were mirroring?

An interesting post when you consider that one of the main ways that narcs get away with what they do is to rely on people not talking about it.

People who work in the sorta psychology/therapy field seem to be putting the figures at 1 in 20 to as high as 1 in 7!

Technically you only now need to hit 2 out of the 9 (I think) points in the dsm to qualify as a narcissist now too.

People like to say 'back in my day we just called them assholes'. Yes, because there wasn't terms for the TYPE of asshole they were back then.

Some are less malignant than others of course.
Doesn't mean they aren't still soulsucking fuckers in the long run.

Let's say it's 1 in 10, how many people will they date in their life? Could be hundreds. So most of us will encounter a narcissist at some point. Not to mention they can be friends, neighbours and family too.

How do narcissists get diagnosed. do they even agree to see anyone as don’t they think there is absolutely nothing wrong with them?

Would you like to see a copy of my husbands medical records?

People seem to be conflating a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder with someone having narcissistic traits.

Anyone can observe another person’s behaviour as being narcissistic, it doesn’t mean they’re giving them an armchair diagnosis of NPD.

I might notice someone is exhibiting paranoia, and they might behave in a paranoid way. That doesn’t mean I think they have Paranoid Personality Disorder or that I would be qualified to make that assessment.

They want to suck you into their void.

No thanks. Just curious as to who has diagnosed him?

Medical professionals/mental health team. His diagnosis is now an excuse. They also like to be a victim. Whatever means that its not their fault.

I agree, I can see narcissistic actions in people but the person doesn't have NPD.
NPD cuts throughout every thing they do, all they are, how they think, how they relate to the world.

The medical team who have been dealing with him for 4 years now.

You only officially need 2 out of these 9 now to be diagnosable (of course they rarely get diagnosed). Someone who is point 7 and 9 may be entirely different from someone with a range of five of these points of course.

Where do you think 'narcissistic traits' come from? Let's be honest, yes, people can sometimes be selfish, on occasion. But if they have 'narcissistic traits' well...if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

We have as as speices, a habbit of playing down and excusing bad behaviour. Especially from those we care about. Of assuming the best in those close to us. It's also easier to say 'oh they can be a bit narcissistic sometimes but they're not really a bad person'. Than it is to admit they are a bad person, we just chose poorly when we let them into our lives.

I just think they are arch manipulators and will do anything to get people to do/behave in the way they want or to benefit from a situation. They will act their socks off and show a different persona at work, socialising with other people, and another when they are in a new relationship with someone. All of that is because it suits them.

I think they are able to have a personality transplant at will, depending on the situation and how they want to manipulate it for their own ends.

They are very good actors, and can maintain a persona for years if they want to.

Who are they underneath all that? They've probably been maintaining a variety of facades for so long they don't know any more.

100%

Well there is one thing they do know about themselves and that is that they are always right and never to blame lol.

Mirroring is an act. It involves creating an appealing image based on verbal mirroring (You like cats? What a coincidence! I'll never forget dear old Fluffy, the best cat ever, who was my childhood pet...)

They are the same person underneath. They are swept up into the good feelings they are creating, and they imagine the target they are chatting up is the most amazing, flawless creature they've ever met. How could this creature be otherwise? The narcissist deserves no less.

Then, once the relationship is established, their innate self-loathing kicks in, and they externalise it. They can't conceive of themselves in any way but perfection, and they feel they are accountable to nobody. The target is their ideal match because they are also perfect. Obviously they don't see the target as anything but a blank canvas onto which they project their own image.

But the target reveals that he or she has an existence that is separate from that of the narcissist's own. They have preferences, feelings, and opinions that don't match the idealized vision that the narcissist created.

They start to endow the target with all of their flaws and several more than they've noticed about the target. The person they once considered astonishingly beautiful/ perfect in every way is now devalued completely.

It's true they are unlikely to think they are the problem.

Their victims turn up to therapists' offices in droves trying to figure out what the heck happened to them, how, and why.

Yes @mathanxiety that’s when the therapist says you’ve married a narcissist.

When my marriage fell apart, I spent months trying to understand where it all went wrong. Could I have done things differently? Was I just not enough for him? If he was one way when we met, and he changed, could the man I fell in love with come back? When I realised he’s (probably) narcissistic, I started to learn more about it. I realised how our dynamic had impacted me. I recognised my own mistakes (I very much wanted the fairy tale, I was undiagnosed ADHD/autistic when I met him, lots of trauma, an ideal candidate for a man like him). Understanding narcissism has helped me to heal from our marriage. It meant I wasn’t surprised when he announced he’d met someone else quite quickly, or later when I realised he’d lied about just HOW quickly. It also helped me knowing that the man I fell for never really existed so he wasn’t coming back, that helped me move on rather than hope for any reconciliation. It also helped me to be careful not to make the same mistakes again.
Lots of people (especially on MN) are so cynical about the term ‘narcissist’, but if you’ve been in an abusive relationship and it’s likely they were narcissistic, it’s helpful to know. It’s a very specific kind of behaviour and abuse.

I think very few people will be diagnosed as having NPD by a psychiatrist. Why would they end up in such a position? As we know narcissists usually think they are absolutely fine, except for the rare self-aware narcissist, who will most likely also avoid any kind of psychiatric diagnosis.

It is helpful for the lay person to be able to “see” more clearly a narcissist in their lives. Knowledge is power. Of course, if Johnny who works in your local chippy is a narcissist that is going to be irrelevant for you. However, if your close relative or your partner is a narcissist – you will definitely know about it - it is helpful to have ideas and information which help protect you.

The DSM-V diagnosis of narcissism is only one such viewpoint, in my opinion.

I think there are also mid-range narcissists who don’t show up on everyday radar – but their family will certainly know there is something wrong with them and they cause a lot of damage. And there are also just people who just have narcissistic traits, like my ex-friend.

I made a little list of my own view of what an actual mid-range “narcissist” might possibly look like which I will post next …

A Narcissist :

Sense of entitlement
Black and white thinking
Haughty
Wants to maintain control
Needs “fuel” (supply) /attention
Uses people
Flirtatious (somatic narcissists)
Revises history (lies and gaslights)
Doesn’t respect boundaries
Superficial relationships
Superficial charm
Rages and abuse
Never or rarely apologises except maybe faux
Never cries (except maybe victim/waif narcissists)
Refuses to talk about relationship at all or in mature fashion
Plays victim (v. occasionally or regularly) but all narcissists see themselves as victims
Fake compassion
Ignoring
Blaming
Contemptuous
Smearing people
Maybe alcohol, gambling, sex addictions
“What’s mine is mine, whats yours is mine”
Jealous re. their personal property - views as extension of themselves.
Manipulation, eg silent treatments, triangulation, push-pull
Incapable of remorse
No acts of true generosity
gifts with strings etc
Uses money as control, to appear generous /to guilt trip/foster dependence.

The narcissist dismisses and jettisons people easily, but if a person suddenly reappears on their radar they may decide to contact them for fuel even if, for example, there has been a long silent treatment.

@mathanxiety that’s really interesting. Is that why they don’t care how they treat you because they’ve de valued you?

Ask a question to him- simple question was what have you been up to this afternoon. Reply- you don't have the right to ask me that. Making the person who is sane feeling wrong

I can't bring myself to read all of the replies as it will give me hideous memories of shitty times but one of the things that is getting me through stuff is when i saw jimmy carr on some podcast or something and he said (slight drum roll) "you are who you are when no-one's watching". And for some reason that gave me a ting ting a-ha kinda moment.

@sweatervest that’s a nice thought. I quite like myself when on my own, dancing, singing etc around the house!

In my experience they never truly let the imitations go. They remain made up of little bits and pieces of other people.

I'd say this too. They're like a patchwork quilt of other people. Frankenstein's monster, if you will.

I can pin point the exact parts of my personality and phrases the narc took from me. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Underneath it all is nothingness, just a pathetic empty shell of a person.
It's very sad really. Wherever they go, there they are.