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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

For those of you with male friends

90 replies

Strangerthings666 · 15/03/2024 09:02

How would you act if you had a male friend who you spent a lot of time calling and texting, and they then told you their wife had found out and was upset by it all as she knew nothing about it at this point? The friendship wasn't inappropriate, but did involve a bit of emotional support and sharing of some private things.
From the wife's pov, she feels it was kept a secret from her and doesn't understand if it was just a good friendship why she was kept in the dark.
Would you feel guilty? Would you reach out to the wife to reassure them that there was nothing to it? Would you continue the friendship? Maybe tone it down? Or would you just cut ties with the man, loose the friendship and forget it?

OP posts:
Dery · 15/03/2024 17:47

As these threads always demonstrate - there is no single answer to these things. I have friends whom I consider close friends but we are all middle-aged, have families and are generally busy so we may only speak or see each other a few times a year. When I was young, I saw friends a lot more often.

However, I think very regular contact and sharing emotional things with someone who is partnered can become a bit problematic if it is detracting from the main relationship which it may well have been here. I don't think you've done anything wrong, OP, except perhaps been a bit naive about accepting so much time and emotional energy from a man who is partnered up. I would be a bit dismayed if I discovered my DH had spent a lot of time calling and texting another woman in the way you describe.

You shouldn't feel guilty - you weren't to know that he was keeping you a secret - and it may be that the wife is very controlling. But I think it makes sense to take a step back. If she wants to speak to you about it, then it may be worth a quick chat to put her mind at rest, but ultimately she will be more concerned about what her husband was feeling about it all than what you were feeling about it so I wouldn't reach out to her unless she invites it.

5128gap · 15/03/2024 19:08

I'd mind my own business and get on with my life. Way too much hassle to be the focal point of a marital dispute.

Minefield231 · 15/03/2024 19:27

Namechangedforcrazystory · 15/03/2024 14:23

I have been in this situation and would now answer that I would completely end the friendship.

I spoke with him regularly as I also did all of my other (make and female) friends, although he was probably in my top 3 closest friends. I knew his wife didn't particularly like me although she didn't really particularly like anyone so I didn't pay it much attention.

Most of our messages were causal but we knew each other for 8 years and knew about each others families, big life events etc (as did our other friends to be clear) and would offer each other emotional support too.

My own DH was very aware of the level of our friendship, the content of messages etc and had no issue with it.

Near the end I did sort of get the vibe that my friends wife was unhappy but I just wrote it off - she was controlling, it wasn't my problem, I wasn't doing anything wrong and stopping talking to him would make me seem guilty. All I'm doing is chatting to my friend and their relationship stuff is nothing to do with me. It's not my choice to make for him. He can deal with it himself.

Evidently, once unable to get her husband to stop being friends with me she decided to bring out the big guns.

She went through four years of our chats on his phone and cut and pasted together (out of context) loads of different messages that she thought proved our friendship inappropriate.

Examples of this included him telling me he was thinking of and "sending me love" when I found out it was likely I couldn't have children. And me telling him he's a great friend to me and that I'm here for him any time he needs to chat with a love heart when he had a cancer scare. These messages are the kinds of messages both of us sent to our same-sex friends too at times.

There seems to be this general vibe that opposite sex friendships are only ok if there's absolutely no emotional closeness at all but in which case I'd say they're not really friendships. People tell even acquaintances things when they talk, never mind their actual friends. I can't imagine regularly spending time with someone for almost a decade and never sharing anything personal or bonding over a shared history or similar things happening in life.

There was one instance he complained about his wife to me and I stuck up for her and shut him down.

Anyway back to the story. His wife made a collage (yes a digital COLLAGE) of all these "inappropriate messages" over the years stuck together out of context to imply that we were having a constant back and forth love-in. They were stripped of all context and embarrassing and private messages were included in there. They were sent to everyone we knew.

I was humiliated. To give an example, I admitted to him at one point that I'd gotten really drunk after I'd had a really bad day and called in sick for work the next day as I was so hungover. I was almost never off sick so while I did feel guilty, it wasn't exactly any more of a crime than people who pull the odd sicky. I never did it again. She sent this to my boss.

After that our mutual friends all got to have a good nosey and decide whose side they were on and got to read all the juicy stuff while we (I mostly) tried to explain.

Unfortunately the friends wife was the one to come off most favourably and most people sympathised with her. Many wanted to "not choose sides" but it became really messy like we were having to share custody of this group of adults. And pretty much all of them made it clear they agreed with her and understood why she was unhappy. Several said they didn't think we were in any way having an affair or anything but that her feelings were understandable and so in turn her actions were too.

You could have made similar out of context collages of all of my friends chats which would have looked exactly the same but there you go. It never comes across the same with M/F friendships which is why it's impossible to really have a genuine friendship with the opposite sex as it's simply not socially acceptable to speak in the same way you would your female friends.

Unfortunately by taking her side they really took his and her side as they stayed together and I was the "other woman" who I guess had spent the last almost decade playing a very long and very badly executed seduction game. I assume he was simply the poor naive innocent man who was seduced.

So no. I wouldn't fancy that again. And while I think what she did was insane I also kind of blame him. He kept dismissing her feelings repeatedly. He wanted to have his cake and eat it. He wanted to stay with his wife and ignore her displeasure at our friendship.

I wrote her off as controlling but that was his problem to deal with and he should have. He could have left if he didn't like being in a controlling relationship. Or if he didn't want to leave, he could have stopped the friendship.

Looking back it's likely he did confide in me (and his other friends) more than he did her and it's likely he did have more in common and more similar interests with me (and his other friends) than with her. It was an odd relationship and an odd match and they never seemed to enjoy being around each other.

I just wish instead of putting all that blame on her I'd have stopped to actually judge him for the relationship he continually chose to be in. And made clear to him that I'm not continuing being friends in any capacity unless his wife is ok with it.

I wouldn't do that again.

For some reasons, your post remind me of these two thread me I read in the past.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4514006-My-husband-loves-someone-else-as-well-as-me

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4515139-Needing-support-for-those-days-after-first-finding-out-about-husbands-infidelity

Needing support for those days after first finding out about husband's infidelity | Mumsnet

Okay third time lucky. Unfortunately some of you will have followed what happened to me yesterday and finding out my husband of 8 years was unfaithful...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4515139-Needing-support-for-those-days-after-first-finding-out-about-husbands-infidelity

faylin9889 · 15/03/2024 21:34

This happened with me.
My oh has hobby where he comes into contact with other women. I knew women were at this hobby and trusted him 100 percent.
If he had said I'm going to have cuppa or snack with one of women not an issue but one day pretended still working and met with one of ladies from hobby and went to fancy restaurant and had meal. Then when he was confronted lied about who he was with etc. Made out he was still at work! I believed him but found out two days later he was lying and I was I was insulted verbally by him and dumped after 30 yrs. A week later we sorted things out and five years on still together but inside I don't feel the same anymore. He is not the person I once knew. My rock. Someone I trusted and made me always feel like number one a really nice guy is somebody I don't know anymore. I always supported him with his hobbies and everything so to be lied to and dismissed like I was nothing felt awful and still does when I think back. I was humiliated and felt worthless and like I wasn't good enough. There were at least three or four other occasions could be more that he was elsewhere but I have never mentioned them as that can of worms could tear my life apart and at present I don't have the strength to deal with it. He once went to cinema with another lady who I don't know which I think is quite an intimate thing and lied again that at work. Different lady and ten years before meal one. Aldo I have observed on two occasions ladies gripping his knee when chatting. He didn't remove their hand when this happened. This is why I never trust his lady friends from hobbies or work.
I used to trust but the meal one was a real deal breaker as I was dumped after 30 years together. He used to be generous and earns more money than me but he always treats himself first. He is very materialistic.
He went abroad once and was texting this lady more than me as I saw phone bill.
I am never jealous or untrusting if I'm told the truth about where someone is and who with.
But personally I wouldn't be too friends with someone else's partner in view of my own experiences. These have changed me from a very happy safe person to someone who feels broken.

teacheroffsick · 15/03/2024 21:36

Would I feel guilty? No
Would I reassure wife? No
Would I continue friendship? Yea
Would I tone it down? Yes
This happened to me too.

kkloo · 16/03/2024 01:08

I wouldn't see it as controlling.
No one but the 2 people involved in any relationship/friendship understand their dynamic. Even if you read their entire message thread no one except the 2 people really understand their dynamic/vibe or if there are any feelings there....so the wife is dealing with a situation where she doesn't know if this is just friendship or not.

I wouldn't reach out to the wife but I'd tell him that she was welcome to contact me if she wanted.

And no I wouldn't continue the friendship if it was causing problems.

IWishYouWouldJust · 16/03/2024 01:42

Transparency in a marriage is minimum.

Cosycover · 16/03/2024 01:56

I'd be ragin.

My best friend is male. He means the world to me. My husband knows this. His partner knows this. We are all friends.

When it comes to male/female friendships nothing should be hidden . It won't work otherwise.

kkloo · 16/03/2024 02:08

DinnaeFashYersel · 15/03/2024 10:17

I'd think it was weird that he'd kept you a secret and that she is probably controlling and so feel sorry for my friend.

Would you not consider the possibility that you are wrong and that she's not controlling, she's just responding to finding out about this secret relationship she knew nothing about?
Or that there could be other factors that you know nothing about like maybe he has form for cheating?

If your female friend/mother/sister/daughter/niece came to you upset after finding out their partner had been in constant communication, calls and texts with a woman would you think that she was controlling? or would you think that there was a high chance that something shady was going on?

ViciousCurrentBun · 16/03/2024 03:38

Friendships shouldn’t be hidden. I have four male friends, known one for 30 years and the others for at least a decade. All of them have met DH multiple times. I think you were his little ego boost.

PrestonHood121 · 16/03/2024 03:45

If it was me, I’d need to back off and know my place. Emotional intimacy with someone not your spouse will only lead to trouble. Tell him to chat to and text his wife and not you.

RosieTheChi · 16/03/2024 05:53

I've just had this happen to me (I am the wife who was upset with secret chats going on with a woman DH hadn't even met). The feeling is awful so I would back off if it was me. I would want to show respect to the marriage and the wife has every right to feel uncomfortable and betrayed to some extent.

MissTrip82 · 16/03/2024 06:25

What emotional support is he seeking from you that he can’t get from his wife?

I’d certainly back off. Genuine friendships don’t need to be hidden.

Livelifelaughter · 16/03/2024 08:37

I think to suggest a wife is controlling because her husband is constantly texting another woman really plays to men and just gives them an excuse for poor behaviour.

faylin9889 · 16/03/2024 09:21

I think sometimes if the partner is wary of a friendship/friendships people think they are controlling it can be unfair as in my case I have never had a problem with oh having hobbies, own interests, this is constant and I have always supported them and my oh had been abroad with work and hobbies and had gone to pub/bite to eat with group of people from his interests but when that changed to taking one friend to a nice restaurant on a day when they had time off when I was working and lied that they were still at work that's when people like me can feel let down and resent been called controlling. Or texting other person when away more than me?
If there is nothing to worry about why hide it and if you need to have a spot of lunch why choose a romantic/fancy type place.
I will never trust anyone again as person I thought was my go to best friend let me down and insulted me verbally when I was questioning them about where they were. They think we are okay now and we are okay but inside I'm not the same happy safe person I used to be as they verbally insulted me so I can't unsee words. They were my best friend and still are but the perfect relationship I thought we had is broken and to be honest I don't have any faith in anyone anymore. I only trust myself and if this sort of thing happens again I will leave as they do know how much they hurt me. I spoke to other person and they played it down as a friendship but they weren't the one been lied to and insulted and they weren't the one invested in the relationship like me.
They are also married and very happy as far as I am aware but still in my oh life as friends/work/common interest but didn't have the respect for my feelings to remove themselves from my oh circle. I just look at them now and feel sorry for them both that they were so desperate to see each other, text and spend time together but didn't mind how much they hurt me.
I am lonely inside now and am ok but if I challenge my oh about anything he will never say sorry or be wrong so u just plod along for an easy life.
My life is ok but not special anymore. He was my amazing person once...

Goateen · 16/03/2024 09:43

Livelifelaughter · 16/03/2024 08:37

I think to suggest a wife is controlling because her husband is constantly texting another woman really plays to men and just gives them an excuse for poor behaviour.

Yep.

And if a woman really is so volatile and insecure that she won't allow any opposite sex friendships, then he needs to leave.

But 9 times out of 10, this isn't the case. He is just having an inappropriately intimate relationship with a female friend and playing the 'oh poor me, I can't have friends' card when he's called out.

Balloonhearts · 16/03/2024 09:49

One of my friends has a jealous wife to the point that we weren't allowed to share a car to attend training. I'm afraid I have no time for people like this and told her to grow the fuck up. The friendship did not change and if she does have one of her tantrums and texts me, I tell her to fuck off and text me again when she's a big girl.

Generally this seems to work. Other people's self esteem issues aren't my problem.

RosieTheChi · 16/03/2024 10:05

Balloonhearts · 16/03/2024 09:49

One of my friends has a jealous wife to the point that we weren't allowed to share a car to attend training. I'm afraid I have no time for people like this and told her to grow the fuck up. The friendship did not change and if she does have one of her tantrums and texts me, I tell her to fuck off and text me again when she's a big girl.

Generally this seems to work. Other people's self esteem issues aren't my problem.

Sorry but that's awful. She clearly has her reasons of which you may be completely unaware of.

The woman who my DH was messaging also messaged me telling me to grow up. I don't have time for people like her who think they have a right to comment on my marriage and stick their nose in.

Goateen · 16/03/2024 10:07

Balloonhearts · 16/03/2024 09:49

One of my friends has a jealous wife to the point that we weren't allowed to share a car to attend training. I'm afraid I have no time for people like this and told her to grow the fuck up. The friendship did not change and if she does have one of her tantrums and texts me, I tell her to fuck off and text me again when she's a big girl.

Generally this seems to work. Other people's self esteem issues aren't my problem.

You're friend is a terrible partner to allow you to say that to his wife.

If she's being unreasonably jealous and controlling, he needs to leave her. However, he can't sit there with his friend while she texts 'fuck off', and expect her to be nonchalant lmao

RosieTheChi · 16/03/2024 10:09

@Goateen Completely agree with you. It's between the married couple to sort out and good friend would back off if they were causing issues.

NineofPopes · 16/03/2024 10:09

RosieTheChi · 16/03/2024 10:05

Sorry but that's awful. She clearly has her reasons of which you may be completely unaware of.

The woman who my DH was messaging also messaged me telling me to grow up. I don't have time for people like her who think they have a right to comment on my marriage and stick their nose in.

Surely if someone restricts car-sharing to training on grounds of jealousy, they’re inviting other people’s opinion on the dynamics of their marriage because they’re intervening in their spouse’s hobby/social life?

I don’t have any involvement in my male friends’ marriages (or my female friends’ marriages, come to that). In some cases, the friendships have outlasted the marriage. I one, it has outlasted two.

RosieTheChi · 16/03/2024 10:11

@NineofPopes I disagree. The issue is still between the husband and wife. I won't car share with someone of the opposite sex if alone due to religious beliefs. Everyone has their own boundaries that they are comfortable with.

Branleuse · 16/03/2024 10:14

I'd back off. I think that would be really uncomfortable. I don't want to get in the middle of anyone else's relationship, and I'd also be a bit unsettled if the friend had dropped his wife in it like that, as it would seem a bit disloyal to her, and it would make me wonder if he was playing us off against each other.
I do like having male friends but I never let myself get too close, as invariably someone gets upset, or it turns out they secretly fancy you 90% of the time.

Goateen · 16/03/2024 10:15

Surely if someone restricts car-sharing to training on grounds of jealousy, they’re inviting other people’s opinion on the dynamics of their marriage because they’re intervening in their spouse’s hobby/social life?

Something tell me the story didn't start at car sharing. Just saying.

(Also, yep Rosie, it's not for some friend to start butting in and stirring things, and definitely not to antagonise the spouse directly! )

whistablenative · 16/03/2024 10:16

NineofPopes · 15/03/2024 09:45

I wouldn’t do anything. I’m only responsible for my end of our friendship. His marriage, and how he manages friendships and his marriage, not only isn’t my business, but shouldn’t be my business.

Having said that, I’d think very poorly of anyone who thought my friendship was some kind of grubby little secret, or who felt an opposite-sex friendship was incompatible with marriage in the first place. I’d suggest he got in contact when he grew up a bit.

I agree. I unwittingly got into this situation. I'd reconnected with an old school friend & we got into a conversation about my abusive upbringing. I said I was happy for him to name check the topic but asked him not to mention the details of it to anyone else. We then taked about all sorts of general stuff on & off.
He turned that into some weird triangulation &, after 5 years of emails. texts, & an annual lunch that 'his wife wasn't happy'. I then cut contact as I was not interested in being represented as something I was not (a threat to the marriage). I now highly suspect he has form for behaving with odd boundaries. Or his wife is possibly super suspicious but either way I was best out of it.