Am in utter shock

[honeyandbutterontoast]

Will start by saying this is an OW thread. So I’m not asking for sympathy, I’m just in utter utter shock.

Twelve years ago I met someone. We were both married. We fell in love (I thought). My DH was a bad man, I’m not excusing myself but he was. I divorced him, took the bare minimum and waited for OM to do the same.

He didn’t. For years it went on, his excuses, so I wouldn’t see him, he begged me to be patient. I was his soulmate, his best friend, etc etc etc. And I loved him so much.

We bought a house together, he decided on completion day that he couldn’t leave her. I was in a financial mess for years over that.

In Oct 22 I gave him an ultimatum (this date is important), he had to leave her or we couldn’t speak anymore (up till this point we emailed and texted multiple times a day). He said he couldn’t leave her, couldn’t be without his kids. He went away on holiday with them.

Stupidly we stayed in touch “as friends”. Daily he would ask to see me. He would tell me he wanted to be with me, no matter what would make it happen.

(Sorry this is an essay)

Last spring we saw each other for lunch a couple of times. Something was off but I couldn’t work out what, he seemed depressed. I started dating again and told him we could only be friends.

In the summer he sent me a photo and I noticed he didn’t have a wedding ring on! He told me he had “recently” left his wife but didn’t know how to tell me. That he wasn’t sure if we should move in together straight away (!!) or just get to know each other as single people.

We met for lunch a couple of times, he had endless excuses why I couldn’t see his new flat. It all seemed odd but somehow plausible. We last saw each other in October but carried on messaging multiple times a day, chatting about everything. Or so I thought.

He told me he was very depressed and unhappy. Needed time to get used to life alone. I truly believed he was unhappy, possibly even suicidal at times.

This evening I received a message. From his girlfriend. Who he lives with. Who he had told he was separated when he met her 18 months ago. Yep when I gave him the ultimatum, he was with her. They have a whole life together.

She is 20 years younger than he is.

We spoke on the phone and while speaking she was looking through his phone. There are multiple women. All that age. It’s been going on for years with them.

How he has time to run a company I do not know.

So here I am, 12 years on. In utter shock. And that poor girl. I didn’t know what to say to her, I could only assure her there has been nothing intimate between us since before she met him. Unfortunately he has been with others.

i honestly would have told you he was my best friend. His behaviour had been odd yes, but I never thought for a moment it was like this.

His last messages to me were how he had an okay day today, hadn’t done much. They are on holiday!!!

I get that in some ways I deserve this. But she doesn’t. He obviously was putting his wedding ring on to meet me! How messed up is that. Or maybe he wasn’t married then anymore?!

And I’m guessing when we were actually in an intimate relationship he was shagging these other women. I really had no idea. He would beg me not to leave him as he was so unhappy but had no idea how to leave without losing his children/business.

Desperately need to sleep but had to get all that out. It’s like an episode of eastenders.

The sanctimonious are out in full force.

Instead of piling on, it is possible to scroll without offering a bit more of a kicking to a human being in pain.

I repeat - commenting is not mandatory.

OP you cheated on your husband and helped a man cheat on his wife for YEARS.

Did you really think this was going to end up all roses and sunshine and he would never treat you with the disregard and disrespect he treated the mother of his children?

I have no sympathy.

If women are treated favourably on MUMSnet then thank God for that. It's in stark contrast to everywhere else in life where women are called Karens and bitches and slags and home wreckers whereas less is expected of men. Boys will be boys, just banter etc. Thank God one website is allowed on the Internet as a haven for women to support other women.

@Mykittensmittens this sounds so similar to my friend's husband. They seem to thrive off the double life and the lies, not always a double life, sometimes a triple, or more, or more relationships. Mary Turner Thompson's documentary is fascinating, her husband had many many ongoing relationships and had even more even as the documentary finished, they just can't help it. Also, some of these men have children with each woman although this doesn't seem to be the case here.

OP, it might be worth reading her book/watching the doc to help you understand how these men act, and perhaps why. It's nothing about you, they just find other people all the time, and love the risk taking/deception aspect, but seem to have enough charm and personality (and often quite good looking) that each person feels special, so in some ways they are good communicators.

Can you read @DrJoanAllenby ?

Try the start of OP's posts.
She isn't asking for sympathy.

The point is, there might be a frenzy if she went to the press and said "let me tell you this dramatic story about how Joe Bloggs - yes, that Joe Bloggs - lived a double life with me for 12 years, and then it turned out there were loads of other women and not one word had been true" - because that's the kind of "Tinder Swindler" story that gets lots of traction.

Some people are suggesting she do that.

I don't think there would be a frenzy if she didn't put herself forward. These stories are all about what people are willing to share. Photos of women looking either sad, or glamorous in a "wow, how did a woman like that fall for it" way. There's no mileage in "He also allegedly had an affair with a woman you've never heard of called Jane Doe for 12 years, but Ms Doe was not available for comment".

I was brought up to believe that if you can't say anything nice about someone, don't say anything.

The OW-bashing posts here are unnecessary.

Humans make mistakes.

If all you want to do is kick someone when they are down, look at your own moral code.

Because it isn't half as perfect as you seem to think.

I get the impression that the OP wasn't in a sexual relationship with the man for the past few years. I suspect that being a lone parent with at least one child with issues, she liked the companionship and feeling someone was there for her of her former lover, and I'm understanding that even if not approving of it. It perhaps was a bit of a fantasy as well, which again if you are lone parent supporting two kids with an abusive ex, then escaping into the world of texting/feeling like someone is there for you, even if in reality they are not in any meaningful way, is attractive. I'm explaining, not excusing.

This isn't the thread to talk about moral code in favour of OP.

I really think you need to examine why your standards have been so low and why you have been gaslighting yourself that this man cares about you when every single one of his actions show he does not.

You say he was your best friend and love of your life but which of his actions show you he was your friend? How has he shown up for you or supported you? He hasn't. You have fallen in love with an idea, with a version of someone that you have created in your own head and not the person that was standing in front of you.

I understand that someone can be caught up in the whirlwind and excitement of an affair, but after he repeatedly didn't leave his wife for years I think you need to really examine why the scales didn't fall from your eyes.

The fact that you were going to buy a house with a man you knew to be married, that hadn't left his wife and had never met your children is absolutely batshit crazy. It's just not a normal or rational thing to do and I really think some therapy would help you work out why you have put up with this.

There are plenty of wonderful men out there. This one is clearly an utter bastard. But you have also allowed yourself to be treated like an absolute doormat and if you do that, horrible people will continue to walk all over you.

Change your phone number, delete his phone number so you are not tempted to contact him and start putting yourself and your family first.

I for one do feel sorry you OP. I've been in a seriously abusive relationship in the past and then leapt at the thing that looked like it would 'save' me, he wasn't married but I can't hand on heart say I wouldn't have gone there even if he was.

More than anything you need therapy to get to the heart of why you behaved like this and were ok with continuing the relationship even after he pulled out of a house move than fucked you financially. There's clearly a lot to unpack there.

I hope you manage to recover your finances and quality of life after this episode, and never do anything like this again. Your kids need a healthy, stable mum and environment and that matters more than anything.

Wow, very similar then.

NPD and sociopathic diagnosis is very real but with all the ‘fun and games’ they get up to it sounds like a more scientific catchall term for ‘rotten, sex-crazed, selfish wanker!’

I’m glad you’re out of it and you sound to be in a far more positive place, which can’t have been easy. I would absolutely write a book, or an article at the very least so you can at least get something out of the time you wasted on the bugger.

There's making a mistake and knowingly getting together with a married man and flouncing off to buy a house with them knowing that he's still married with children. It's not like accidentally breaking a glass when doing the washing up, it's being complicit in fucking up lives

Yes.
and honestly I didn’t have time or the emotional ability for a proper relationship but he was my “best friend”, every morning asking how I was. I had to deal with any tough things alone of course but he was there online to tell me how much he “cared” for me.

what a load of bollocks.

Well said.

Relationships can be messy. It's awful for those involved, but often there is crossover. This man went as far as buying a house with OP so you can see how much she was manipulated by him into thinking he wanted to make a full-time commitment to her. She's now financially destitute but posters are still crowing "karma" just to kick her while she's down.

People are missing the point here. This isn’t about cheating. It’s about someone who has built up an entire life based on lies, reeling in vulnerable women (there are lots of them) in order to probably gain financially and everything else. He’s a con man. Not some nice husband the evil OP has snatched away. 🙄

Putting salt instead of sugar in your coffee is a mistake.

Fucking a man who is married with children for TWELVE YEARS is not a mistake. That is commitment to harming, betraying and mocking an unsuspecting women who did nothing to you.

My moral code is quite fine thanks.

I get where you're coming from, but the drama of describing the "media frenzy" due to his status now and not wanting these other women hurt, not if he'd done what she'd asked and left his wife to live with a woman and her kids in a home they'd already bought, which would have massively impacted her private life and kids in their home, just doesn't seem right.
Saying he scammed all these women like the Tinder Swindler, would bring less judgement on all the women, rather than if it was just 1 he lived a double life with, who was aware he was married, and bought a house with him while he was still with her! That looks even worse and she didn't care about that then or she wouldn't have done it. It calls into question if this is a genuine post.

I'd be tempted to quietly assemble as many of the other women as you can and arrange to meet him (with or without a reporter!).

Then you can invite him to explain himself to you all so he can tell you the truth for once without having to get his various stories straight with everyone.

Then you all dump him and never have anything to do with him again (apart from your stories to the reporter and any child maintenance, of course).

No you are missing the point.

OP is not some little naive angel that got lied to. She was very happy to assist this man in the lying for 12 years. She's the conman's assistant.

At the time I had to move and he said he wanted me to live somewhere more, to have a home that could be ours etc. That it would be the step towards our future etc etc

I talked it over with friends and everyone seemed to think it must be genuine. After all why otherwise would he do all that. To me it was a commitment. At the time he worked away a lot (or did he???) and was rarely home. So it all seemed to stack up.

At the time it made sense, because I wanted it to make sense. Now I can see how utterly fucked up it was.

So I had my dream house, decorated the way he wanted. And I lived in it alone, waiting, until I lost it. That was karma too I guess.

My moral code is quite fine thanks.

You might want to sense-check that.

Coming onto a thread where the OP says she's made a mistake, doesn't want sympathy but is feeling awful and then you sticking the boot in, doesn't cover you in glory.

It obviously makes you feel much better to lash out at her.
You have the choice to read and move on.

You didn't.

That doesn't make your moral code very good IMO.

I'm glad the GF contacted you so you can now properly break this cycle and I'm sorry you've wasted so much of your life on this guy, you deserve better. While you were the OW, I imagine he chose to be with you because he sensed you were vulnerable and malleable to his lies, with each test you didn't leave and even when you did break off the sexual relationship you continued the emotional support role so he knew was unlikely you'd properly move on and find someone else so in his mind still available option to get his needs met.

Everyone thought my ex was very honest, genuine sort and it was only after I discovered by chance they were cheating and became hyper aware that i noticed how much they lied daily, often stupid small things that had no real consequence so I never considered anyone would bother to lie about. Like your guy they were manipulative and knew turning on waterworks, some self flagellation talk would trigger a caring rescuer response as its like kicking a puppy and this allowed them to switch into victim role deflecting from the original issue that was acceptably angry about.