Look at All the Lonely People. What's happening?

[ginasevern]

I manage a hospitality venue in a large city and since Covid (and to some extent before) demand for singles events has gone ballistic. When I say singles events, I mean gatherings for single people to mix, mingle and be in human company rather than specifically for dating.

I know there's always been business/hobby networking events and for as long as I can remember there have been events for divorced or widowed people but the clientele I'm talking about are young (usually between 25 to maybe 40 tops), intelligent and with good jobs.

Most of the people I talk to at these events are looking for a partner and are quite lonely. During my years working in offices most of the women/men were with someone by the time they were in their mid to late twenties and loneliness was (mostly) a problem for the elderly. Even if they weren't with someone, they had very active social lives with their friend groups. There was also a lot of works socialising, even if it was just a couple of hours in the pub after work or a game of softball.

What's changed. What's gone wrong in society?

(devils avocado)

Lol, I inadvertently joined a social meetup group that I hadn't realised until a couple of meets was actually for people with ND, and MH issues. They packed out some sizeable places though, so it does go to show just how many people are not NT and how many have MH issues.
Kinda thought it strange when in first chats people would spill to me their MH history though I was a stranger. It was only when I joined the whattsapp group related ( which was full of people saying odd stuff )and then the organiser said his issues, that the penny dropped.
It's good that people who have difficulty socialising have founds ways to meet up. Could of been made clear on the website that this was what the group was about though. I laugh about it now, my mistake, had some really odd conversations people.

lol.. she’s got exactly the same, if not greater risks elsewhere.

In the workplace there has been address and NI vetting, and a procedure if any of the above happen.

Outside the workplace there’s no diligence or comeback without involving the police.

Try harder.

Depends on the pub/area really.

Before I moved to our current village, I lived in a suburb of a seaside town. There were 2 pubs within staggering distance that I was happy to go into alone, as it'd be very rare to go in and not know someone, as they were pubs frequented by the older pupils of the secondary school in that area, so there were usually lots of people I knew through school if nothing else. I can't say I ever saw any single woman who I knew/suspected to be prostitutes. That was around 30/40 years ago. People were generally more "open" to talking to strangers and distant aquaintances, so I'd never be fearful of being on my own or lonely. There were also a few pubs nearer the town centre where I'd never dream of going into as they were the "rough" pubs - I'd not even go in with a friend, let alone on my own.

As for the village, it was hardly "tiny" - it had over 5,000 inhabitants and there were four pubs. I had my favourite mostly due to layout etc and it doing live bands every week, quiz nights, etc. The others were OK, but I'd not be quite so keen to go in alone as they were more "couples/groups" kinds of pubs with big car parks, so got lots of people coming together from other areas, and not so open to chatting to random singletons!

Toxic social media is making people wary and afraid of others, because the bullies and weirdos tend to be the loudest so you start to think everyone is like that which makes you start to avoid people in real life unless you have a connection such as a common interest or hobby etc.

I think this is particularly true. Sometimes when I have spent too much time on social media, I am surprised when I go out that people are normal and not all running around burning things down and screaming at each other.

singles events, I mean gatherings for single people to mix, mingle and be in human company rather than specifically for dating Thai aoibds great, there's such a lack of community in most Western countries. I wish there were more things for older people too. I remember travelling and seeing so many old people together in other parts of the world and sad that we don't have the same

And you sound lovely too. 😋

Indeed. I was wondering if OP wanders around 'hostessing.' I bet these lonely singletons stump up quite a lot of cash to be admitted to this venue for nice and intelligent people.

I saw somewhere “When did we have to start asking for permission before calling a friend”

Friendships and relationships arnt as free flowing as they used to be. I remember growing up my mum would take us to a friends house pretty much every weekend. They all had their own homes them. I’m in my early 30s and most of my close friends still live at home, live in small flats or flatshare without communal space. Many have moved further away due to affordability. So whilst my mum is still physically close to her close circle - even 20+ years later; it feels people are always moving because of rent, landlords, affordability etc.

Social media has also given us less of a need to catch up. I know what most people are up to do meet ups are more about doing something together. I think that’s a shame.

Everyone has a side hustle or are just busy - don’t know if it’s over working. Needing more money.

There is this feeling that you are disturbing someone when you ask for their time.

I definitely see the lonliness. I run a local club and we are always overbooked.

If it all goes tits-up, she's got to turn up each day to the same office as him, worry about him forcing her into the stationary cupboard to rape her, worry that he'll follow her to her car when she leaves work. She's got to get HR involved and convince them that she's telling the truth. If he's in her immediate team, she's the one who has to ask for a transfer and she has to keep working with him until she gets it. She has to spend 8h/day with her stalker if he works with her.

In reality, she'll have to move jobs, as well as moving home and blocking him on everything.

Try harder.

"It took a very brave single woman to go into a pub alone 20 years ago!"
what, in 2004? Really??? I was 16 then, I don't remember pubs as a whole being particularly less welcoming to women then than now, and I was going to a fair mix of them at the time. Maybe in 1954.....

I agree with @joan12 - I don't really see the issue? Perhaps people aren't mixing at work or at the school gates as much anymore, so they are making an effort to widen their social circle by attending meet up events with other people in a similar position. I can't see how this is anything other than a good thing? Surely people NOT meeting others would be worse?

There are so many posts on MN about people feeling lonely and not having friends but also so much discernment about exactly how you are SUPPOSED to make friends. So many posters being snidey about how they can't think of anything worse than spending time with their colleagues outside of work, to the extent that 3 hours once a year at the Christmas party is too much to ask. Others hate the idea of school-gate or "mum" friends ("why on earth would you be friends with someone just because you happened to have kids the same year?" I mean that's quite a big thing in common on its own, plus you also clearly live in the same area, are likely a similar age, etc.). Now apparently making the effort to actually go to an event where people of a similar age and lifestyle to you who are also actively wanting to make friends is also for some reason something to be pitied....Seriously, what is the "correct", MN approved way of making friends?

@easylikeasundaymorn it's an online forum so will have a higher proportion of the socially anxious, the lonely or the anti social. I married my work colleague and am still friends with people from all my four places of work over 35 years. Plus school gate Mums who I have known for 18 years now.

Pubs weren't more welcoming than they are now. I have never been able to walk into a pub and not be hit on.

Interesting posts. I'm not sure what 'social media' has to do with it though? Back 10-15 years ago, Facebook was often used to arrange parties and made it easier.

I like the idea of being able to walk into a pub and just chat to anyone. Pubs aren't like that now.

The cost of going out for drinks or food is high. I think that's got a lot to do with it. Impromptu drinks with colleagues can cost £££, and even pizzas seem pricey. So people make their excuses, particularly if on a lower salary.

To make friends I think you need to be seeing the same people regularly (at least weekly) for a while and the problem is most people are simply too busy to do this.

I've made friends on mat leave and at uni and just failed miserably making friends during normal "adulting". My colleagues always commuted in all directions before WFH was as much of a thing.

Joining groups didn't work for me as I've never seemed to have much to pick from, they're never local even if described as so and most of them don't have frequent enough interaction. When you meet someone and only see them a month later it's like you're starting all over again and getting nowhere.

The current environment for making friends sucks and people are giving up on it and staying in with social media and home entertainment because it's more fun.

Because mobile phones/internet has stifled in person socialisation these days. A lot of youngsters hardly go out and mingle - to the pub with their mates, team sports, group hobbies etc. They just stay in and video call/message each other or play online games.

Also not helped by modern living/housing estates - soulless over dense places with no gardens for kids to play in with other kids living hearby, narrow pavements and roads full of parked cars so they can't even play in the street like previous generations. They don't build any facilities on these housing estates either - no corner shop, estate pub, community hall, nevermind GP surgeries and schools. And we keep building housing estate after estate like this, all tacked on the edges of existing towns, but miles away from any kind of town centre/facilities. So no one knows each other locally, except perhaps their immediate neighbours. None of it encourages community spirit or in person socialising, just drives antisocial behaviour and crime. We're sleep walking into a very bleak future, and loneliness among young people is a depressing symptom of these problems building over the last 30 years.

@altmember

They don't build any facilities on these housing estates either - no corner shop, estate pub, community hall, nevermind GP surgeries and schools.

At the rate corner shops and pubs have been closing over the past couple of decades, I don't think there's the demand at all. Or maybe there's a "demand" but not enough to cover the costs and to make a living for the owners of shops and pubs.

Uncertain about community hall - we've one in our village that is forever advertising for groups to rent it - there seems a definite lack of demand, especially during the day. It seems to have the odd dance lesson in the evenings but very rare to see anywhere there in daytime. Pretty cheap too as we rented it once for our young son's birthday party.

Re schools and GP surgeries, they're all about centralisation, grouping, being bigger for economies of scale, etc., so it's highly unlikely you'd ever get new small ones being built, and of course, the staff shortages mean you'd have trouble staffing it.

I don't think it's necessarily a lack of thought by the developers, it's more that they'd probably put land aside for these places, or incorporate say a few shops, but find they'd never be taken up by anyone.

There's a purpose built student accommodation block near us. The ground floor was earmarked for a convenience store. It's been five years since it was built and the convenience store is still empty - they just can't find anyone willing to take it on despite constant advertisement and changing agents a couple of times. In theory, it should do a roaring trade with maybe a couple of hundred students living above it, and it's on the edge of a new build estate with maybe a hundred houses, so maybe 3/400 people, but no takers.

Sadly, certainly with the likes of shops and pubs, people talk the talk about wanting local facilities, but won't walk the walk and actually buy stuff from them!

Nah. Someone you work with is still a very low risk compared to the alternatives.

Neither my son, nor any of his friends went anywhere near any girl in university and following on from that won’t touch any in the workplace.

it isn’t worth it, and I don’t blame him.

glad I’m out of the game to be honest.

The man who "kisses and tells" is a stud. The woman who does that is a "slut", the "office bicycle", etc.

I've worked on building sites and I've seen the sexually explicit graffiti that men will write on the temporary cladding we line lifts with and on walls yet to be painted. I've seen how men will talk about women when HR and line managers aren't watching. I've seen how men will talk about "sexual conquests" and I don't want to be talked about that way. I've even had a man tell another man within eye line of me that he had "had me against a wall" when in fact he had done no such thing. I don't work on the sites any more for good reason.

It really really isn't men who should be afraid in the workplace.

I don't actually think that you are telling the truth about your sons. Either you are lying, or they have lied to you. I've never heard of a straight man get to the end of uni without having sex at least a couple of times. As for the women being off-limits, that's straight out of the MRA playbook.

I agree with this 100%. I am still in touch (drinks, occassional meal, etc.) with former colleagues from a job I left in 1985. Of the 3 companies I have worked for after that time until I retired, I never see or hear of anyone.

use of social media and our image obsession has turned people into sterile robots whom have zero social skills.

This is my new favourite phrase 😄

The trouble is that many lonely and isolated people live their lives on the internet. Interacting that way does inevitably lead to keyboard warrior interactions and people develop poor social skills as a result. They take these attitudes into the workplace ( that’s if they don’t work from home) and into interactions with real people. Consequently they offend upset and dismay those they interact with. This fuels their own internal feelings of inadequacy and leads to more dysfunctional behaviour. I have seen this first hand. It’s scary. Also they may not understand that provoking heated debates about politics/ gender/race with strangers isn’t the best way to build connections.

A friend of mine was telling me that her son was doing a similar meet up thing in Covent Garden.

He’s new to London, in his 20s and working full time for a company that decided not to renew their lease on their office… so no office to attend. He does make site visits, so sees colleagues occasionally.

So poor lad is WFH in a flat that he’s sharing with his sister.

How else do they get out and make friends?