DD wants to cut ties-Says her childhood was toxic

[SadandStressed3]

This is long, so my apologies.
I’m in a horrible, stressful situation with my 19yr old daughter. Basically, she feels that she had a very unhappy childhood and now doesn’t want to have a relationship with us (apart from us continuing to support her at university and keep her during holidays from university 🙄) She does not keep in touch whilst away and when home, spends the entire time in her room. I’m just going to give a brief overview so as not to drip feed.

She is the eldest of 3 with a 5yr gap and essentially says she feels like we ruined her life by having the younger two. Apparently this meant no time for her and less holidays. She said she had to listen to us saying we couldn’t do stuff because of money but yet we chose to have the younger kids. She said it was toxic due to arguments and stress. There was an awful 2yrs after the youngest was born where I had hideous PND but still had to try and cope as we have zero extended family and DH was working away through the week. There’s 18mths between the younger 2 so DD would have been 7-9yrs during this time.
When she was Y5 we put her in for grammar entrance (she’s exceptionally able academically) She passed and went to an all girls grammar. She hated it and we let her move to the comprehensive for Y8. She hated that too but still came out with 4 top A’levels.
There has been lots of teen drama and she was under CAMHS for a year. This was counselling and I was called in for the last 10mins of each session to be told how awful I always made her feel. How she was belittled and unloved and how the younger two were treated more favourably and how I gaslit her. She complains that the younger two have more relaxed rules on bedtime and internet use (probably marginally true but not by a significant amount) She’s also very angry that family holidays can now be more teen focused whereas when she was their age, we had to accommodate younger kids. To me this is all just what happens when you’re the eldest. Every year, I’ve made sure her and I had a weekend away just us. I’ve also taken her shopping for clothes and when she was 14, we completely redid her bedroom allowing her to choose and putting in a make up desk etc. If anything, she’s probably been over indulged a little.

It breaks my heart that she refuses all contact when away and lives by this narrative of having had a toxic childhood. I work in child safeguarding and thus deal with kids daily who really have experienced toxic situations and it frustrates me and upsets me so much to hear DD say such things. Half of me wants to support her and acknowledge, as I have tried to, that there was a very difficult period when her siblings were young and the other half wants to tell her to stop wallowing in self indulgent MC bullshit. Obviously the latter isn’t ideal and I do push that away. As things stand, she’ll finish next year and we’ll never hear from her again and I’m desperate to sort this out beforehand. Well done if you’ve got this far. Any advice is very welcome.

I think the problems between your children suggests something did go wrong emotionally for the whole family. PND and illness might well account for that.

But the big thing is that you need to sort it out. She feels how she feels and that is furious and hard done by. You did the best you could. Both of those things can be true at the same time.

I am not sure what you can do to move your daughter forward, but you can't expect her or your other children to take responsibility for how you feel, so I would give any expressions of how sad this makes you a miss. Acknowledge her feelings, be nice, stop keeping count of everything you have done for her. Tell her you did the best you could and be scrupulously fair going forward.

But OP, your daughter feels belittled by you. You say it in your very first post. She feels belittled, and she doesn't feel that you validate her feelings. You can validate her feelings even if you never intended to make her feel that way, but you're coming across as defensive and dismissive. Perhaps this is something she is struggling with. If you want to rebuild your relationship with her then I would stop focusing on who is right and wrong and just focus on how she feels.

OP, it sounds like you've done everything you can to be there for her now. It seems to suit her internal narrative to feel that her life was ruined by the existence of her younger siblings. There's nothing you can do about that. She has to come to terms with it herself, and as much as you want to be there for her, at some point, I'd stop subjecting myself to her verbal abuse. It's doing neither of you any good, sitting in the echo chamber with her, being repeatedly pummelled with no sign that she's healing or experiencing the emotional growth necessary to work past the fact that life isn't perfect, and our parents aren't either, but that doesn't mean everything is shit or 'toxic'.

Incidentally, she does come across as spoilt and merely looking for ways to prove she's been hard done by, like so many people today. 'Toxic', indeed. 🙄

Not sure why you’re talking about childhood as a “job”. There are many kids who grow up with parents with serious physical or mental illness or disabilities. They don’t need to “validate” illness per se but it’s healthier to acknowledge it. To accept that parents are human and have their own problems.

Bloody ... Hell. What an actual cesspit this is. Leave the OH alone, this is absolutely exhausting to follow. None of us are perfect. We don't have to sacrifice ourselves on the altar of validation. Sometimes we have to accept things and move on.

She's being a brat. But also a troubled teen with mental health issues. Firm but fair is needed here

Tell her she's an adult now. When she comes home she's respectful. Spends some pleasant time with her family like the adult she is.

If she cant behave like am adukt then she needs to find alternative accommodation. Let her know you really want her there though. But you are setting ground rules just as you will when the youngest are adults

There seems to be a lot of people on here assuming that my DD has a specific issue with those 2yrs. She may well have strong feelings about that time but she rarely mentions that time specifically. I have told her repeatedly that I’m open to hearing her without being dismissive. All she ever says is that it was selfish of me to have the other two and that nothing is ever fair. That the youngest goes to bed half hour later than she did at the same age and that sort of thing. She came on holiday last year and tried to insist we went to a playground as she was made to visit a playground at their age. Stuff like that. I freely admit this is true although we always ensured that one of us went off to do ‘big girl’ stuff with her too so she felt special. I just don’t know what to say to her rage about it all. —-Yes, it is that way. I’m really sorry it upsets you so much. Sometimes it happy that way when you’re the eldest. What can we now do together as adults that the others can’t do to try and make things up—- has been my approach. I am absolutely open to hearing her pov and I’m not dismissive of it. But I can’t change the fact that her siblings exist or that we no longer need to cater to younger kids.

Not necessarily. It might, but it might indicate that DD is on the spectrum and struggles with relationships generally, and the younger children find her hard to deal with as a result.

Either way, kids don’t have much appreciation of teenage struggles. The moodiness and drama is baffling to them. And they will almost certainly pick up on her resentment.

Just because someone is neurodiverse it doesn't mean their parents weren't abusive.

Sorry!

It is quite common when young people leave home for the first time to want to cut all ties and assert their independence in this way. Perhaps you could offer to go to family counseliing with her so that you can hear each other out and understand what's happening underneath. Maybe there are things you can all learn and address.

I have been through something similar, but much more absolute myself and it nearly destroyed me. Now 2.5 years later they act as if nothing ever happened.

In all your messages you talk about your DD -

However none of it is about you - how does she make you feel? Have you expressed that to her?

She’s an adult and she can now listen to how she makes you feel!!

You aren’t being truly honest with her - and to be fair to her - maybe why she struggles with relationships - you now to everyrhing - nobody else will!!

You listen to her moaning and being mean - no one else will.

Time to step up and be straight with her.

@Helen4740 You need to start your own thread, you’ve posted on someone else’s.

It is hard having 3 children and doing your best for them all.
Hopefully one day she will grow up and realise that you’re human and that having siblings isn’t akin to torture.
Maybe back off a little and see how things go. She has unrealistic expectations. If she has a chance for counselling at University I’d suggest she takes it.
You too may need support - you can only do your best and apologise if she was wronged. Having more children and PND is not something to be blamed for - I hope things get better in time.

Maybe just listen to her? You come across a bit stubborn op. I had a horrible upbringing and my mum doesn’t understand how or why and gets defensive every time I bring it up. But it was horrible and she can’t even see it.

OP please please pay no mind to some of the posters who are determined to paint you in the blackest light, on the basis surely of their own shit because you have said nothing here than shows you as anything other than a loving, thoughtful mum with huge reserves of patience and understanding. I wouldn't be half so big a person as you have been with your daughter or with the posters here and I consider myself a pretty good person. Absent you inventing a time machine and going back and never having other children (and who the hell does she think she is thinking that she should have had any say in that), there's nothing you can say here that will appease some of the posters here who are

Do you not think she blames her siblings arrival for your illness. No matter what you say she will have sensed the change in you at that time and attributed it to the siblings.

And most likely you've never been the same since, certainly an experience like that changes you even slightly and it's very disorientating when your emotional centre as you would have been for her at that time is no longer the rock they had been.

Plus your partner sounds like he isn't bothered, if you only parent when your child makes an effort to speak to you you're doing something wrong.

Funny she doesn’t want distance from financial support though isn’t it ? She’s basically saying her parents ruined her life because she wasn’t an only child. If her upbringing was so toxic she’d want to cut all ties, not just pick and choose to suit herself.

You could be describing my brother. It broke my parents heart but they just kept loving and supporting him however he would allow them to (often financial). When he was around 30 he did a complete uturn and decided they are the best parents ever. He’s 50 now and still adores them.
so hang on in there! X

I have been through something similar, but much more absolute myself and it nearly destroyed me. Now 2.5 years later they act as if nothing ever happened

I think is a very strong possibility. I said similar above.

If DD just wanted to cut ties - she could just not phone OP and in the holidays be out the whole time. Move out as soon as she graduates. There doesn’t need to be a dramatic flounce.

@Twatalert, I’m not going to engage with you further. I’ve listened to everyone on here despite much of it being hurtful. I’ve accepted I’m not perfect continuously.

I have at no point suggested my daughter is either ‘an idiot’ or that she cannot be trusted. In fact, I’ve stated that she never lies and thus her truth is her truth even if it upsets me. I feel you are being deliberately rude. I started the thread for support yes for me and my relationship with my DD but also out of concern for DD. I’ve gone through my adult life without any family other than my husband and then my children. I do not want that for her and deep down I’m not convinced she does either so I don’t want it to come to that.

You’ve said how you feel. Please stop now as you are completely misrepresenting how I feel about DD or act towards her. Yes I’m upset but I’ve stated in the thread in the hope of getting as much advice as possible to improve things. Not to be misquoted and misrepresented.

She seems very hung up on fair being treating everyone exactly the same but that isn’t what fair is.
So eg insisting her sister go to park on holiday age 13 because she had to (because sister was 8 at time)
She sounds very black and white and emotionally young for her age.

To be honest, it sounds as though you and your daughter have both had a hard time at points. Ironically, this is something you very much have in common.

I think if it was me, I’d probably say that I loved her very much, and recognise that she’d been through some very hard times. I would say that you have tried to do your best, and that you were truly sorry she felt that way. And I would say that you are always there if and when she is ready to talk.

You don’t need to confirm or deny her version of events when you say this - even if you feel horribly wounded about what she’s said. Bombarding her with ‘facts’ isn’t likely to help. What’s certainly real in all this is her suffering. Try to focus on how vulnerable she is as a 19 year old with poor mental health, and hold open a path back to you. Then be kind to yourself too. You need a lot of compassion in this situation, starting with self compassion. X

Brains keep maturing until 25, and clearly she’s not yet a fully developed adult. I’m sure we can all think of some stupid actions and beliefs we held when we were 19. She’s chosen childhood trauma as her focus and I expect she will have to reach maturity in her realisations in her own time which could well be a process taking a few years - or even longer if she lets this narrative become central to her personality.

Bottom line is parents are flawed human beings, and all fail along the way to one extent or another - having a younger sibling, not having a younger sibling, pushing a perceived talent too hard, not pushing a perceived talent hard enough, being too rich, being too poor, taking too much interest in their life choices, not taking enough interest, etc etc. Part of being a mature adult is recognising (in the majority of cases) that our parents made mistakes along the way but did their best and usually having a certain basic gratitude for that.

Hopefully she will grow out of it eventually, but if not don’t blame yourself as casting oneself as an exaggerated victim of (normal) circumstances/upbringing as a ready made excuse for any future hardships is pretty common nowadays.