Aibu- His ex wants him to go to couples therapy

[orsina]

I’ve been dating someone for 9 months. He left his partner shortly before we met. They were married, together 20 years but have no kids. Things have moved fairly quickly as we are late 30s and serious about each other and the same things, and he moved 300 miles down to where I live a couple of months ago so we could be together properly (albeit he has his own place and I have mine.) He hasn’t filed for divorce yet but where we live, his health insurance covered by his wife’s employer is good and he is between jobs right now, and the tax benefits are much better for married. I’m trying to be understanding as I know separations are tough, and I didn’t even mind they are amicable, she still talks to his mum who is going through cancer treatment etc as she’s known her forever, and he went back up to help her when their joint dog was sick which I thought was fair as he loves that dog. She sent him down a Xmas present. But she does know about me - I have iron proof of that. And I know he loves me, we have said it etc.

however. Today he told me that she has asked him to go to couples therapy with her, supposedly not for reconciliation but to help her move on from some things in their marriage. He is very caring about everyone and has considered it as he thinks it’ll help her move on. For me though, I was pretty shocked. This is not something I’ve heard of for couples who don’t have dc they are trying to have an amicable divorce for, or for couples who aren’t looking to reconcile. He doesn’t think it’s odd she asked, or disrespectful to us that he is considering it. They are both in individual therapy anyway. Part of me think if she was dating herself no way would she ask this of him.

Aibu about this? Would you have therapy with an ex you didn’t want to get back with who you didn’t have dc with or any other ties to, especially if you are in a new established relationship? I’m embarrassed to say I got a little upset today when he told me. No moves made to file for divorce although in his state no fault divorce only takes 2 months. Them having therapy when they’re not even officially divorcing makes me feel insecure.

[WhamBamThankU]

I wouldn't be happy with this either. No DC, her individual therapy should help her move on from the relationship.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

With kids? Absolutely. Without? Hell no.

However, He hasn’t filed for divorce yet but where we live, his health insurance covered by his wife’s employer is good and he is between jobs right now. Be careful with this one.

[SleepPrettyDarling]

I find that people who are or were in therapy tend to be advocates for it. She may be seeking a closure or some sort of ‘orderly wrap-up’. If he is on board with that, I’m not sure what you can do; it would be difficult not to be curious about what they talk about, and that might be a deal breaker for you. It’s not in itself a bad thing that they continue to care for the well-being of in-laws and pets. But it might not be for you.

[Aquamarine1029]

Couples counseling for what? They are no longer a couple, and if she is having issues moving forward, that is something she needs to tackle as an individual.

You need to have eyes wide open, op. Your boyfriend is still enmeshed with his wife. Your relationship is quite crowded.

[SleepPrettyDarling]

Can I bet that she wants them both to see her counsellor?

[orsina]

Yes @SleepPrettyDarling apparently her therapist suggested it.
They are both still affected about an abortion when they were teenagers. They’re now in their forties. I guess maybe it’s to discuss that but IMO individual therapy can be just as good for stuff like that. I just don’t know what the benefit of it is if they truly are divorcing.
yes, it does feel crowded and I’m stressed out about it, even though I’ve tried to be understanding. I feel like I can’t compete with a woman he’s known his whole adult life though.

[orsina]

They have not had any period of NC after separating and they talk a few times a week on phone. I don’t see why they don’t both go NC especially her if she needs to move on. Sorry, just need to get all this out!

[Aquamarine1029]

@orsina

They have not had any period of NC after separating and they talk a few times a week on phone. I don’t see why they don’t both go NC especially her if she needs to move on. Sorry, just need to get all this out!

Read that again and then ask yourself why you are wasting your time with this man.

[Channellingsophistication]

This is concerning. 9 months with you and he hasn’t filed for divorce and now he’s willing to do couples counselling when they are not a couple?

He needs to break contact with her completely if your relationship is to work. There is no need for them to be in contact. Why did they separate?

[MississippiAF]

Honestly, I’d chuck this one back OP. There’s so many more, without needy, batshit ex’s clinging on to talk over their feelings.

[orsina]

They have this dog together who is old and frail and I think the contact is a lot about that. But he did also send her a card when she was sick lately, albeit he told me about it. He describes their bond as being strong (not necessarily in a good way) because they both went through the abortion years ago and had a very up and down relationship, she cheated and they weren’t good together, they didn’t have intimacy and were unhappy a long time. I feel like I am expected to just accept her. He even talks about me/us with her. I don’t see what they will discuss in these therapy sessions.

[orsina]

But at the same time, they are not divorced, she is technically his wife, so is it like, who am I to say they shouldn’t have counselling? He has not broken that legal commitment to her. I don’t want to be pushy or unsupportive because he made sacrifices to move down here to me.

[SleepPrettyDarling]

@orsina

Yes @SleepPrettyDarling apparently her therapist suggested it.
They are both still affected about an abortion when they were teenagers. They’re now in their forties. I guess maybe it’s to discuss that but IMO individual therapy can be just as good for stuff like that. I just don’t know what the benefit of it is if they truly are divorcing.
yes, it does feel crowded and I’m stressed out about it, even though I’ve tried to be understanding. I feel like I can’t compete with a woman he’s known his whole adult life though.

Well, there you have it. In her therapy, she clearly hasn’t reached the stage of letting go.

I was seeing a therapist post-separation, and was horrified to learn that Ex had arranged to see the same therapist - and she took him on KNOWING we were married. I immediately stopped seeing her. It’s a huge red flag; neither is closing the door. The ex owes you nothing but your BF is being disingenuous in not seeing this as a dragging out of the relationship. He’s not ready. Is he weak; is he motivated by guilt; does he feel obligated?

[orsina]

@SleepPrettyDarling maybe he does feel guilty for having moved on so fast. But surely it’s just part of life? Breakups suck but I have never heard of 2 exes helping each other move on like this especially when there’s a third party in the picture.

[AelinAshriver]

🚩🚩🚩

He left his partner shortly before we met.

He left her. Why? Without the context of why and how the relationship ended it's hard to say.

BUT, thee main red flag points are:

• Together with his wife for 20 years and rebounded with you very quickly. No time to grow from last relationship so may still have feelings for her?

• Moved 300 miles to be with you 'properly' after being with you what, 7 months!? Straight after his 20 year old marriage with his childhood sweetheart 😬

• Hasn’t filed for divorce yet. No apparent intention to.

• He is 'between jobs right now'
How long has he been out of work? I assume a while if the only reason he is staying married to his wife is for the health insurance and the tax benefits? ~I don't think this is why he is remaining married to his wife btw. But it will be the reasoning he gives you~

• She sent him a Xmas present. - Did he send one back?

• He doesn’t think it’s odd that she has requested couples therapy when they are no longer a couple

Honestly, OP. Best scenario, he is a man-child who has up and left his wife (and possibly his poor cancerous mum who his wife is now looking out for as he's moved 300 miles away!?) But as he would have been a teenager when their relationship started, he's never really known anything else. So you are the replacement.

Worst case. He's still married because then he gets his cake and eats it too. He will spend the next 20 years stringing you both along.

My advice: Run.

Find someone who will commit to you.
Not to their wife for the 'tax benefits'

[Guavafish1]

I would detangle yourself from this man.

He is not ready for a new relationship as there are many unfinished end from his last relationship.

I was in a similar situation, dating a man who just came out of a 10 year relationship without kids (minus couples counselling request). Turned out they were talking frequently as well as meeting.

I won't get involved.

[AelinAshriver]

Ugh god, the more you update, the worse it gets!!

• They talk a few times a week on phone. 

• Sent her a card when she was sick

• Talks to her about you and your relationship.

• You already feel pressure to accept her.

....OP. c'mon.

[orsina]

I know, I know. I feel like I’ve been a “cool girl” about this - but the fact is if he was as unhappy with her as he made out, why would he not have cut ties, especially having met someone else? It never seems to end. He said they were talking less than they ever have now, but then he says she wants to do counselling with him. She’s obv not moved on. And also he called her about his mums illness but didn’t call me. He said it’s because I don’t reliably pick up the phone and she does (I have a busy job and can’t always get to the phone.)

[SleepPrettyDarling]

Just to put the show on the other foot: my ex consistently tried and continues to try to remain enmeshed. Even though he left to be with the OW and is engaged to her! But in trying to be ‘decent’ and a good guy, he consistently way overstepped boundaries - birthday cards to my siblings, inviting my mother to things, Facebook-friending my friends - and only so much of this was stuff I could control and put a stop to. By contrast, he abandons his own mother, and I’ve had to look out for her a great deal more to ensure the children actually see her. So although I have very strong boundaries about my personal engagements with him, people don’t always play ball. The question is: what are you prepared to put up with? If he has moved, is ‘between jobs’ (be wary), and harbouring feelings for an elderly dog, while his mother is unwell, and considering couples counselling, does he sound like a good bet to you?

[Codlingmoths]

If I had a partner who wanted to go to couples therapy with an ex, I’d say fine, obviously we are over, I’m not dating someone in couples therapy with someone else!! You can get back in touch once you’ve cut ties but I can’t promise to wait for that potential event.

[MariaLuna]

They are both still affected about an abortion when they were teenagers. They’re now in their forties.

This is frankly ridiculous. For your future.
Ok. I get that they need to sort this out but I wouldn't be hanging around because they may well end up together again. Because it obviously goes very deep for both of them.

I think you will end up being hurt by him. Please do not do that to yourself.

[orsina]

He always talks about how he’s never felt this way about anyone as he does about me, that we have a connection he and his wife didn’t share (we have a major shared interest/hobby and are aligned on so many things), that their relationship was built on being from the same small town and knowing each other since teens. But she cheated and lied about it for years, they rarely had sex, they didn’t talk.

so why so enmeshed? Maybe it’s just me but with exes i find Nc essential. Especially the longer you’ve been together.

[EcstaticMarmalade]

To be honest I think it’s too likely that to both her and him you’re an allowable
dalliance. She cheated so he’s allowed to play away for a bit, but they haven’t really broken up legally or emotionally. If I were you I would
run.

[MsDogLady]

Trauma bond, frequent contact, no divorce, cards, gifts, pet, couples counseling, short time between relationships

He even talks about me/us with her.

Oh dear. @AelinAshriver, he and his wife are utterly codependent, and you are right there in this triangle with them. Are you livid that he is discussing you and your relationship with her? I would be.

As he is actively investing in her and their connection, and is hugely validated by that, he is not truly emotionally available to you. In my view, their attending couples counseling is entirely inappropriate. Doing so will strengthen their enmeshment.

If you value your peace of mind and emotional health, you will walk away from this toxic triangle and leave them to it.

[EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness]

so why so enmeshed?
You might never get an answer for that and knowing the reason won't change anything unless HE choses to change things. He's happy having a close relationship with both of you, he gets something out of being enmeshed, you're understandably not happy about it. You can't stop them being enmeshed, but you can set healthy boundaries and make it clear what is a relationship deal breaker for you. There's no point though telling him a certain thing is a deal breaker for you if its just a bluff and you won't follow through.