Are these narcissism traits?

[sarahappleton284]

Example 1)
Me: I might join the gym on a month to month basis; but it doesn't cover sauna/jacuzzi
him: Good job you don't like Jacuzzis
Me: I do like Jacuzzis?
Him: Okay

Makes me think I have caused an issue just because I am correcting him ABOUT MY OWN OPINION. Now he thinks I am starting an argument. I sit here and question my own reality/wonder if the way I said it was wrong??/did i say i dont like jacuzzis previously, questioning myself??!!

Example 2)
Me: I need to go back in the house I forgot my reading glasses
him: omg you really are a disaster aren't you?!
me: you didn't need to say it like that; i just forgot them
him: but babe you need to use your common sense
me: your being rude
him: okay

Example 3)
me: the way you spoke to me was sarcastic/rude
him: well what did you do to make me react that way?

Another thing I have noticed is he is all smiles and laughter and talkative around friends and family; but when its just us alone he hardly speaks; and makes me feel I am demanding for wanting conversations behind closed doors etc.

Sounds like it could be. I got a sense that he's trying to put you down (to elevate himself? how's his self-esteem?)

I wouldn't say so no, but you dont sound happy together ( that does not make either of you a narc though)

Yes, 100%, the fact you're even asking that question speaks volumes, google narcissism, I googled continuous cheat and OMG, got an article on Narcissism, all became very clear suddenly, he ticked all the boxes. Have you been together long? Be prepared for a life of hell, they never change because they don't and won't recognise it in themselves, you and everyone around are puppets and he takes centre stage, my husband is the life and soul of the party, everyone loves him and no one would ever believe what goes on behind closed doors. Google it, it will open your eyes to whole new world of Narcissim. I studied it for 3 years and my God, it took me years to come back to myself which is where I am now, all the confusion for years and years, wish I'd discovered it sooner.

@ShennyInfinity can you DM or link the article? Sorry to hear you went through this. Yep life and soul of the party; i even had his sister tell me he is the best thing i ever had; like i should be lucky. i responded telling her i respect you but no one knows what goes on behind closed doors; and she shut me down and said okay. I wonder if they turn a blind eye; even if they knew. They can do no wrong in families minds. I AM the problem; I AM the one that causes the arguments; I AM the miserable one (husband has called me miserable to his brother); its because of the way he treats me!

Are they traits? YES. Does it mean he's a narc? Jury is out.

My ex would do this kind of thing to me, when I broke up with him I didn't even know which way was up anymore. I was constantly being told that how I felt was wrong, constantly being told what I did was the cause of all of the problems and then when I had mental health issues THAT was the cause of the problems.

I don't know your relationship, but if this is common place then GIVE A WIDE BERTH to these people, they are antagonistic and argumentative by nature and they see nothing wrong with what they are doing. That is 100% narcissistic.

I became obsessed with whether or not my ex "was a narc" and watched all kinds of youtube channels and whatnot about it, but now that i'm a few months into having no contact with him, I see that yes, he had traits that matched, but I'll never know if he was a diagnosed narc and actually, it doesn't matter.

What actually really matters is how you feel around someone. Do they make you feel good? Is their net effect on your life a positive one?

If you're consistently being questioned, invalidated and gaslit then actually I'd say that their net effect on your life is hugely negative and could have a very high chance of affecting your mental health and self esteem severely.

Try not to focus on whether he's a narc, focus on his behaviour, how it makes you feel and stand up for yourself. For example:

Me: I need to go back in the house I forgot my reading glasses
him: omg you really are a disaster aren't you?!
me: Actually I don't really think I am personally. But you're welcome to your opinion.

him: but babe you need to use your common sense
me: Okay.

Shut it down. Don't react, because actually that's what these kinds of people like, they act like they do nothing at all wrong and when you blow up you're the crazy one. Google "Lundy Bancroft - The Water Torturer" and you'll get the gist of what I mean.

As for him being nice around other people, oh yes, i've seen that before. Do you know what that tells you? That his behaviour is a choice. He's choosing.
So the next time he decides to tell you that you need to use your common sense, consider listening to him and removing yourself from his vicinity - preferably permanently. These people know what they're doing and you can spend years trying to educate them on how to be decent human beings only to work out after x years of wasted time that the only game they're interested in playing is the one that makes you the problem. They're absolutley amazing at flipping things, don't bother trying to compete - you'll always lose.

I remember my ex even telling me once "your perception is skewed". Like ummm ok? My perception as a human being is wrong... because he says it is. Try arguing with that. Utter waste of breath, life and time! Let them go play in the corner with their marbles.

The best way to shut down narcissm is to completely not react and not reply!
That way your not playing in to their narrative. If you forgot your glasses simply go and get them, you don't need the dialogue. Once you begin to operate on your own agenda and not engaging the narcissist have nothing to work with!

Narcissism is a massively and usually inaccurately used word on here.

And it's not the point is it? If you do not like the way he speaks to you and behaves then tell him or just say this is not working for me anymore. Be a grown up.

No not really. Does sound like a unhappy relationship though.

I'm not sure if he's a narcissist, but he's definitly a dick - does the exact nature of his dickisness matter?

It doesn’t matter if he has or hasn’t because honestly the relationship doesn’t sound great.

I think everyone is confusing being diagnosed narcissist with being "narcissistic".

The truth is we all have narcissism in us to some degree so i don't actually think that it's overused in that sense, I think narcissim is used as a blanket term to address abusers, assholes, argumentative people, chronic victims etc. Basically just toxic people who make us feel like shit.

The circular arguing that op is talking about... Jesus if I ever got that crap off anyone again I'd just disappear off the face of the Earth where they were concerned, i'm never tolerating it again.

I don't see this as just an unhappy relationship, I see it as much more malevolent than that, but perhaps that is because I ignored the behaviour like this for so long and it had such a massive negative impact on me I no longer knew who I was by the end. Don't underestimate the effect that exchanges like this have.

Seems his sister could be narcissistic by proxy, suggesting you are lucky to have him indeed. They believe his hype.
Anyway, living with him sounds joyless. Time for an exit plan, before he takes away what little of yourself you have left.

him: well what did you do to make me react that way?

Yep. That's the issue in a nutshell. Not quite sure whether it fully qualifies as narcissism, but he is definitely an arsehole. His default position is that it is inconceivable that he could be in the wrong, and nothing unpleasant he ever does could possibly be anything to do with him. His nastiness towards you is because you made him nasty, so it's your own fault. DARVO I think it's called.

Yup. Honestly it's utterly HILARIOUS how they behave.

Over the course of my relationship my ex: Lied to me, cheated on me, broke a door down and threatened to punch me, swore at me, gaslit me, broke things, called me names etc etc. It goes on and on.

At no point EVER, did he consider that he was the problem. Literally at no point. Not even when I recounted in detail the things he'd done, he STILL thinks I left "of my own choice" and that i'm "seeing someone else because that's what everyone has told me is the likely reason you left".

Like, I literally told you why I left 100 times, but no, that can't be it.

It is a mindset that you can't get past, and you would sooner turn the pope into a satanist than change the minds of these.... well, bastards. Because that's what they are.

@roses321 Apparently the reason my ex used to hit me was because it was my fault. According to him, I'd made him angry, and if I hadn't made him angry he wouldn't have hit me, would he? He had no concept at all that it was because he was a bastard with a violent temper. No, it had to be me that made him do it.

Oh yeah it was obviously all you.

It's really funny though, because when my ex blamed me for everything and for being "coercive and controlling" I asked him why I wasn't able to coerce or control him into not cheating, not insisting on his way on EVERYTHING, not buying me anything for Valentines Day, not taking me out anywhere, not sleeping with me.... I won't bother listing all of them.

Oddly he didn't have an answer, it was just some "you're not walking over me anymore" response - in other words, how dare you have agency over your own wants and needs and put any kind of demand on me whatsoever in line with normal relationship behaviours.

It's utterly wild how their mentality works, what they say goes, but apparently the same doesn't apply in reverse. And he thinks MY perspective is "scewed".

I might send him some marbles for his birthday.... although I highly doubt enough exist in circulation to replace the ones he's lost.

Undiagnosed narcissist or not, it seems as though your marriage may have run its course. Maybe try couple counselling.

Look up the definition of gaslighting, explain it to him and then pull him up on it everytime he does it. Generally, every time he makes you feel like shit, explain why.

Just sounds like you don't like each other. Why are you with him?

I don't recommend counselling.

The kinds of things that he's doing - they tend to weaponise what the counsellor says against you, they also act like everything is fine and dandy on the counselling sessions then the session ends and they go back to normal.

I tried it, it made things TONS worse.

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how bad things really are.

OP has only disclosed a few examples of conversations. There could be much much worse going on. Only OP will know how bad things are.

I wouldn’t deter anyone against couple counselling. Hopefully, OP will get a really good Counsellor who will suss her H out. OP can also have individual counselling too.

I wouldn't recommend couples counselling in a situation like this either. Especially not when he is the sort of person who is 'all smiles and laughter and talkative around friends and family'. He would be like that with the counsellor too, and make the OP look like the unreasonable, difficult one in the relationship. Counsellors are not infallible and can have the wool pulled over their eyes too.

It might be worth the OP going as an individual though, without his knowledge. If he finds out, he will weaponise it into her being 'the crazy one' who needs her head examined.

I'm sorry but what qualifies you to make those comments?

Have you been in such a situation?

Couples counselling is touted as the answer to every marriage problem or relationship problem and do you know what? It isn't.

The problem with couples counselling is that most counsellors focus on "the couple" and they treat both parties the same.

Do you know what the problem with a relationship like the one OP is describing? A power imbalance. Where one person feels it's ok to say/do whatever and constantly puts the other person down, belittles them, invalidates them and causes arguments and tells them "their feelings are wrong". OPs SO is already showing the very mindset that would be a disaster for couples counselling:

1. Well what did you say to make me react that way is what he said to her. That says it all. Coupled with.
2. He's lovely with family and friends.

He knows what he's doing. Do you think he'd be honest with a counsellor?

People like this are manipulative. That's what they do, it's who they are. I did Gottman with my ex and we had a certified Gottman therapist (it was our second couples counsellor). The counsellor noticed the effects that things were having on me and do you know what happened? It got turned on me and MOST counsellors are not able to actually clock power imbalances if they don't show up on the session. It's he said/she said and as a result BOTH parties are held to the same standards, and that is not the game that people like OPs SO plays by the looks of things.

So as for maybe/maybe not - the answer is not. It's a waste of money, a waste of time and it'll leave OP gaslit, confused and questioning herself.

You do not need a counsellor to explain to you that invalidating your partners feelings is a shitty thing to do, that is basic 101 and the fact he's ONLY doing it to her and is nice as pie to everyone else is frankly very telling.

Stop regurgitating "couples counselling". That only works when BOTH people want to fight fair. Her husband doesn't.

I’ve had both individual and couples counselling.

Yes. I’ve been in such a situation. Both as a child growing up with DV and due to lived experiences as an adult.

I also work in a field where these issues are forefront.

No, I’m not qualified to assess anyone as a narcissist, but I’m experienced enough to recognise the traits.

Unfortunately, you had a shit Counsellor.

I’m actually in agreement with the OP. As in, I think he is abusive. I previously suggested that she call him out when he gaslights her and generally treats her badly, so I’m not sure why you’re having a go at me, as though I have been dismissive?

If he was a narcissist he'd look down on everyone and talk to them in the same way. So it sounds more like he's just a regular arse. You don't have to put up with it - either dish out a comeback and put him in his place every time and see if he changes. Or just leave. It doesn't sound like a healthy, equal relationship.

There was nothing wrong with the counsellor, the issue was the fact that it was all sweetness and light on the counselling sessions and then a completely different kettle of fish outside the sessions. If you're saying that because the counsellor wasn't mystic f'ing meg they were shit then oh... ok!?

And also if you've been in such situations then you would know shit advice it is to recommend couples counselling with someone who is mentally or emotionally abusive. Neither Refuge nor Womens Aid recommend counselling with abusers, nor does Lundy Bancroft who specialises in DA/DV.

I'm not asking about your assesment of whether he's a narcissist, i'm asking you why on Earth you think it's sensible to have counselling with someone who plays mind games with another human being and then acts completely differently around family and friends and why you think it would be any different in a counselling session?

I'm not having a go at you at all, but I sure as hell think you have no idea what you're talking about quite frankly - and if you work in that field then I don't even know what to say.... because you're wrong.