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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Are these narcissism traits?

93 replies

sarahappleton284 · 12/02/2024 15:38

Example 1)
Me: I might join the gym on a month to month basis; but it doesn't cover sauna/jacuzzi
him: Good job you don't like Jacuzzis
Me: I do like Jacuzzis?
Him: Okay

Makes me think I have caused an issue just because I am correcting him ABOUT MY OWN OPINION. Now he thinks I am starting an argument. I sit here and question my own reality/wonder if the way I said it was wrong??/did i say i dont like jacuzzis previously, questioning myself??!!

Example 2)
Me: I need to go back in the house I forgot my reading glasses
him: omg you really are a disaster aren't you?!
me: you didn't need to say it like that; i just forgot them
him: but babe you need to use your common sense
me: your being rude
him: okay

Example 3)
me: the way you spoke to me was sarcastic/rude
him: well what did you do to make me react that way?

Another thing I have noticed is he is all smiles and laughter and talkative around friends and family; but when its just us alone he hardly speaks; and makes me feel I am demanding for wanting conversations behind closed doors etc.

OP posts:
sarahappleton284 · 13/02/2024 16:55

ShennyInfinity · 12/02/2024 15:46

Yes, 100%, the fact you're even asking that question speaks volumes, google narcissism, I googled continuous cheat and OMG, got an article on Narcissism, all became very clear suddenly, he ticked all the boxes. Have you been together long? Be prepared for a life of hell, they never change because they don't and won't recognise it in themselves, you and everyone around are puppets and he takes centre stage, my husband is the life and soul of the party, everyone loves him and no one would ever believe what goes on behind closed doors. Google it, it will open your eyes to whole new world of Narcissim. I studied it for 3 years and my God, it took me years to come back to myself which is where I am now, all the confusion for years and years, wish I'd discovered it sooner.

Edited

@ShennyInfinity thanks. another thing i should probably mention to everyone is yes he acts like a dick but he says its because he resents me for not doing something (wont go into what it is) but he is saying because i said i was going to do something and didn't do it YET he resents me and is being mean / doesnt care anymore..

OP posts:
sarahappleton284 · 13/02/2024 17:16

roses321 · 12/02/2024 15:52

Are they traits? YES. Does it mean he's a narc? Jury is out.

My ex would do this kind of thing to me, when I broke up with him I didn't even know which way was up anymore. I was constantly being told that how I felt was wrong, constantly being told what I did was the cause of all of the problems and then when I had mental health issues THAT was the cause of the problems.

I don't know your relationship, but if this is common place then GIVE A WIDE BERTH to these people, they are antagonistic and argumentative by nature and they see nothing wrong with what they are doing. That is 100% narcissistic.

I became obsessed with whether or not my ex "was a narc" and watched all kinds of youtube channels and whatnot about it, but now that i'm a few months into having no contact with him, I see that yes, he had traits that matched, but I'll never know if he was a diagnosed narc and actually, it doesn't matter.

What actually really matters is how you feel around someone. Do they make you feel good? Is their net effect on your life a positive one?

If you're consistently being questioned, invalidated and gaslit then actually I'd say that their net effect on your life is hugely negative and could have a very high chance of affecting your mental health and self esteem severely.

Try not to focus on whether he's a narc, focus on his behaviour, how it makes you feel and stand up for yourself. For example:

Me: I need to go back in the house I forgot my reading glasses
him: omg you really are a disaster aren't you?!
me: Actually I don't really think I am personally. But you're welcome to your opinion.

him: but babe you need to use your common sense
me: Okay.

Shut it down. Don't react, because actually that's what these kinds of people like, they act like they do nothing at all wrong and when you blow up you're the crazy one. Google "Lundy Bancroft - The Water Torturer" and you'll get the gist of what I mean.

As for him being nice around other people, oh yes, i've seen that before. Do you know what that tells you? That his behaviour is a choice. He's choosing.
So the next time he decides to tell you that you need to use your common sense, consider listening to him and removing yourself from his vicinity - preferably permanently. These people know what they're doing and you can spend years trying to educate them on how to be decent human beings only to work out after x years of wasted time that the only game they're interested in playing is the one that makes you the problem. They're absolutley amazing at flipping things, don't bother trying to compete - you'll always lose.

I remember my ex even telling me once "your perception is skewed". Like ummm ok? My perception as a human being is wrong... because he says it is. Try arguing with that. Utter waste of breath, life and time! Let them go play in the corner with their marbles.

@roses321 sent you a messege

OP posts:
DagenhamDanny · 13/02/2024 20:16

sarahappleton284 · 13/02/2024 16:54

@DagenhamDanny what examples did you have if you don't mind me asking? Another thing mine did was if he didn't want to go somewhere that I wanted to go to eg for a walk, shopping, walk the dog, museum, food market, he would sulk the entire time and not speak to me; i think it was like a punishment thing; for having a want to go and do something that interested me.

Hi OP, apologies for the delay in replying.

It took a period of time of us living together for me to see what she really was rather than the person I'd originally met. She would never take responsibility for her own actions, it was always someone else's fault (usually mine) and would never apologise for anything, especially her behaviour.

When out in public and with friends she would always play the part of the perfect partner to let everyone know just how lovely she was. Of course, it was all an act for show.

While we were together I had a bit of a health scare but she wasn't concerned. She was more bothered about how she might be affected by it.

If I dared to put a negative slant on anything she go into a rage, throwing things across the room. Consequently, it was like I was walking on egg shells, constantly being very careful of everything I said so as not to trigger her.

After a while I realised that she was utterly toxic and that this was no way to live. So, I left and I've never looked back. She was furious that I'd left her, calling me all the names under the sun. That just confirmed that I'd definitely done the right thing.

Yet she was the eternal victim. The whole world was against her as far as she was concerned.

pikkumyy77 · 13/02/2024 20:21

F

EarthSight · 13/02/2024 20:32

OP, do you trust him?
Do you feel he's on your side?
Do you feel he's supportive of you, or do you feel he mocks and belittles you over small things?
Does he often casually dismisses you when you're worried about something - your problems are always insignificant and his problems are always more important?
Do you feel valued and an equal to him, or do you feel small or subordinate?

Think about those things, especially the 2nd one.

sarahappleton284 · 14/02/2024 09:49

EarthSight · 13/02/2024 20:32

OP, do you trust him?
Do you feel he's on your side?
Do you feel he's supportive of you, or do you feel he mocks and belittles you over small things?
Does he often casually dismisses you when you're worried about something - your problems are always insignificant and his problems are always more important?
Do you feel valued and an equal to him, or do you feel small or subordinate?

Think about those things, especially the 2nd one.

@EarthSight he is never on my side. if i have a view or opinion on someone (one of his friends ignores me and never says hello) then he thinks its both of our fault; I casually asked once if one of his friends was gay (no judgement) because he reminded me of my friend; then im a terrible person. If im cooking and the food smells of burning he stomps around and throws open the windows and makes comments; i have said to him it never feels like he is on my side.
He mocks and belittles me over small things yes; for example if I dropped something or made an accident rather than say whatever he will make a big deal out of it. Always dismisses me, my problems are insignificant (i was crying over a memory that popped up over my dead cat that died horribily, he ignored me; when i asked why he said he doesnt know how to comfort??) - he doesnt actually come to me with any problems though. he doesnt talk that much.

OP posts:
Nofilteritwonthelp · 14/02/2024 09:53

Having known a narcissistic person and being on the brunt of their abuse, kindly reading your OP you have no idea what narcissism is. He's just a bit of a dick it sounds like

Pinkbonbon · 14/02/2024 16:34

Nofilteritwonthelp · 14/02/2024 09:53

Having known a narcissistic person and being on the brunt of their abuse, kindly reading your OP you have no idea what narcissism is. He's just a bit of a dick it sounds like

Sorry but you're falling into the mistake of 'he sounds nothing like my last abuser so he's not an abuser'. This is why many people leave narcissists only to find themselves in relationships with new narcissists.

Gaslighting, mindfucking, creating arguments out of nowhere continually - are ALL bigtime npd territory. Just because you're abuser wasn't like this doesn't mean op is not being abused.

Go back and read ops examples and imagine your whole day with someone was like this. Them telling you the things you've supposedly said (but haven't) and that you suuposedly think (but you don't). Then you thinking, 'why do they think that when I never study these things?' and when you just try to say actually, you dont think that way-they get angry at you/stop talking to you or otherwise make you feel like you're starting trouble.

They set you up for an argument.

Look. And SEE.

If someone told you 'it's good you HATE the color red' 'and 'you said you hated wine so I only bought myself a drink' or heaven forbid 'our taxi driver was Hindu so its good you didn't come, I know what a racist you are' - and none of those things were true, you'd never said or implied any of those things, but this is what your life was like living with this person - you'd go mad! And that's what they intend.

arethereanyleftatall · 14/02/2024 18:10

What.

Are.

You.

With.

Him.

For.

Bluelegopieces · 14/02/2024 21:17

OP I agree, why are you with him? Why does he need to be classified as a narcissist for you to leave? You're describing a really mean, selfish person here. You're unhappy. So leave.

sarahappleton284 · 14/02/2024 22:01

DagenhamDanny · 13/02/2024 20:16

Hi OP, apologies for the delay in replying.

It took a period of time of us living together for me to see what she really was rather than the person I'd originally met. She would never take responsibility for her own actions, it was always someone else's fault (usually mine) and would never apologise for anything, especially her behaviour.

When out in public and with friends she would always play the part of the perfect partner to let everyone know just how lovely she was. Of course, it was all an act for show.

While we were together I had a bit of a health scare but she wasn't concerned. She was more bothered about how she might be affected by it.

If I dared to put a negative slant on anything she go into a rage, throwing things across the room. Consequently, it was like I was walking on egg shells, constantly being very careful of everything I said so as not to trigger her.

After a while I realised that she was utterly toxic and that this was no way to live. So, I left and I've never looked back. She was furious that I'd left her, calling me all the names under the sun. That just confirmed that I'd definitely done the right thing.

Yet she was the eternal victim. The whole world was against her as far as she was concerned.

God this reminds me of him. Walking of egg shells. @DagenhamDanny so sorry you went through this.
once I woke up and ALWAYS in the mornings is when he is at his worst - was this the same for your gf? Anyway, he walked into the toilet and we was out of toilet roll and he said “ugh I’m going to kill you” SO angry but made out it was a joke. He was genuinely annoyed. Said there was no toilet roll? I got shivers. I don’t know how to get out. I do love him.

OP posts:
PatronisingCalm · 14/02/2024 22:43

"Each time I cry, is a sign of my pain.
Every tear that falls, carries your name."

"I'd rather lose you, than to lose my mind."

Take your pick, narcs enjoy inflicting pain, it's how their world rotates.

That is their law, they must hurt.

You have a choice, he's the wrong man, your pain won't end till he is no more in your world.

SheriffofRottingham · 14/02/2024 23:19

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

arethereanyleftatall · 14/02/2024 23:24

What do you mean by 'you don't know how to get out'?

What's the situation- we can help you.

You don't love him. Not the person he is now. Would you fall in love with him if he behaved like he does now on your first date? You are possibly hanging on to memories of what he used to pretend to be like.

SheriffofRottingham · 14/02/2024 23:39

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

hellsBells246 · 14/02/2024 23:46

He sounds really tedious, dull and annoying.

Why do you think you love him?

PatronisingCalm · 15/02/2024 00:47

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request

Yes I do think they do eventually find it boring and that's when the game ends either by leaving and discarding the victim or remaining and not in any way shape or form pretending to put the mask on and off again, it stays off and that's when it's a very dangerous teritory for a woman to be in. It is very difficult to escape a narcissist who doesn't want their victim to leave., and the ones that do leave tend to have foothold still on the discarded partner. Control, control, control.

Who knows why they act like this, maybe it's partly nature and nurture, upbringing and deficiencies, or abnormalities in the brain. Until such time as we will scan someone and say yes, this person has deficits in empathy due to the anterior insular cortex, bla, bla, bla then we have to go on educating younger women of the signs of someone seriously lacking empathy, tendancies for cruely and the warnings that go with remaining with this type of character and the devastation it can lead to, and it only ever gets worse not better, always an upwards trajectory of cruelty, in the home at least, outside of the home the stage has already been set that they are of good character.

It's a tick box list for narcisists, each type will have their own methods but generally the early aims are confusion in the home, the misallignment of action and words, creating the lies that keeps the victim hooked. Then the negativity, you don't understand at first that you accomodating them all the time is actually their devine right to everything. You will argue fairness, your problems will never be heard or solved, we've now got to the banality and pointlessness of it, you stop arguing.
This is a win for them, this means they now have control, from there they have you depressed, exhausted and unable to be happy, even better, you won't want to socialise, this leaves them free to be happy to the outside world whilst you are a prisoner in your own mind. You are now the problem, internally and externally, it's at this point where you will find lack of understanding of your predicament the norm as you appeal to others. Are we reaching that point yet op ? You will soon stop asking those in real life, they don't understand.

And it get's better as you age, motherhood will isolate you, parents will pass away, siblings maybe distanced and friends will never understand. They want you on your own, isolated, in pain and miserable.

Why?, just because they can, so these threads abouts narcs are very much needed because the next stages can and are usually horrific with many of the victims not surviving to tell the tale.

I would claim many of the female suicides are with living with narcissitic men.

So I absolutely applaud having a site like this whereby women can share views and information about very real and evil people, they do exist.
Don't shut down the conversations and don't minimise someones pain or confusion, it's very difficult to pinpoint the exact route every narc takes, they are cunning, manipulative, devious and strategic to name but a few tactics, total mindfucks and their currency is misery. They take the joy out of everthing for you, not themselves, but you are not allowed joy, or freedom of mind.

I don't think there can be enough information and guidance to prevent someone being tied or enslaved to these people, it can be a life sentence only ending in death, which is very often the case.

SheriffofRottingham · 15/02/2024 00:57

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

themusingsofaninsomniac · 15/02/2024 08:40

I think he sounds difficult but not necessarily narcissistic. I think the word is over used to justify all types of shitty behaviour.

Sounds like he's not particularly happy. And neither are you.. so focus on what you want to do next, not whether he is/isn't a narcissist.

DagenhamDanny · 15/02/2024 11:37

sarahappleton284 · 14/02/2024 22:01

God this reminds me of him. Walking of egg shells. @DagenhamDanny so sorry you went through this.
once I woke up and ALWAYS in the mornings is when he is at his worst - was this the same for your gf? Anyway, he walked into the toilet and we was out of toilet roll and he said “ugh I’m going to kill you” SO angry but made out it was a joke. He was genuinely annoyed. Said there was no toilet roll? I got shivers. I don’t know how to get out. I do love him.

I wouldn't say she was worse at any particular time of day, she could be volatile at anytime.

I hear you when you say that you love him and I fully understand you because I was in the same position. But after I got out I could analyse things a lot more clearly and I realised just how bad she was. I have no doubt the same would apply to you, too.

Importantly, you must consider your own mental health and wellbeing in this because unfortunately it WILL take a beating the longer you stay with this guy.

I really wish you all the strength in the world to walk away from him and his toxicity.

Please feel free to PM me anytime if you need anymore help or advice. 💐

sarahappleton284 · 15/02/2024 13:39

PatronisingCalm · 15/02/2024 00:47

Yes I do think they do eventually find it boring and that's when the game ends either by leaving and discarding the victim or remaining and not in any way shape or form pretending to put the mask on and off again, it stays off and that's when it's a very dangerous teritory for a woman to be in. It is very difficult to escape a narcissist who doesn't want their victim to leave., and the ones that do leave tend to have foothold still on the discarded partner. Control, control, control.

Who knows why they act like this, maybe it's partly nature and nurture, upbringing and deficiencies, or abnormalities in the brain. Until such time as we will scan someone and say yes, this person has deficits in empathy due to the anterior insular cortex, bla, bla, bla then we have to go on educating younger women of the signs of someone seriously lacking empathy, tendancies for cruely and the warnings that go with remaining with this type of character and the devastation it can lead to, and it only ever gets worse not better, always an upwards trajectory of cruelty, in the home at least, outside of the home the stage has already been set that they are of good character.

It's a tick box list for narcisists, each type will have their own methods but generally the early aims are confusion in the home, the misallignment of action and words, creating the lies that keeps the victim hooked. Then the negativity, you don't understand at first that you accomodating them all the time is actually their devine right to everything. You will argue fairness, your problems will never be heard or solved, we've now got to the banality and pointlessness of it, you stop arguing.
This is a win for them, this means they now have control, from there they have you depressed, exhausted and unable to be happy, even better, you won't want to socialise, this leaves them free to be happy to the outside world whilst you are a prisoner in your own mind. You are now the problem, internally and externally, it's at this point where you will find lack of understanding of your predicament the norm as you appeal to others. Are we reaching that point yet op ? You will soon stop asking those in real life, they don't understand.

And it get's better as you age, motherhood will isolate you, parents will pass away, siblings maybe distanced and friends will never understand. They want you on your own, isolated, in pain and miserable.

Why?, just because they can, so these threads abouts narcs are very much needed because the next stages can and are usually horrific with many of the victims not surviving to tell the tale.

I would claim many of the female suicides are with living with narcissitic men.

So I absolutely applaud having a site like this whereby women can share views and information about very real and evil people, they do exist.
Don't shut down the conversations and don't minimise someones pain or confusion, it's very difficult to pinpoint the exact route every narc takes, they are cunning, manipulative, devious and strategic to name but a few tactics, total mindfucks and their currency is misery. They take the joy out of everthing for you, not themselves, but you are not allowed joy, or freedom of mind.

I don't think there can be enough information and guidance to prevent someone being tied or enslaved to these people, it can be a life sentence only ending in death, which is very often the case.

it's a tick box list for narcisists, each type will have their own methods but generally the early aims are confusion in the home, the misallignment of action and words, creating the lies that keeps the victim hooked. Then the negativity, you don't understand at first that you accomodating them all the time is actually their devine right to everything. You will argue fairness, your problems will never be heard or solved, we've now got to the banality and pointlessness of it, you stop arguing.

>>> confusion in the home stands out for me, he even said once (i had been quiet since he got home from work and he was just relaxing, me silent and not really talking "see how nice it is when you are quiet" or something along those lines. Confusion in my case is caused by ignoring me, for no reason, but then when I ask if he is fine, i am causing an argument or nagging. on weekends, he will wake up in a foul mood, we will be going somewhere and he just wont talk to me in the car journey, again i have no idea what i done, just by being myself he is annoyed at me.my problems are never solved bcause they are not problems in his eyes, they are already solved.

This is a win for them, this means they now have control, from there they have you depressed, exhausted and unable to be happy, even better, you won't want to socialise, this leaves them free to be happy to the outside world whilst you are a prisoner in your own mind. You are now the problem, internally and externally, it's at this point where you will find lack of understanding of your predicament the norm as you appeal to others. Are we reaching that point yet op ? You will soon stop asking those in real life, they don't understand.

>>>> i started to get down i suppose, tired, unhappy. then, when we go out with his friends and family, they are wondering why im quiet, not chirpy, not laughing, i look like the miserable one, dragging him down, being negative "shes so negative" yes i have stopped discussing this with friends and family, as they probably are frustrated i havent listened to them, and im embarrassed.

And it get's better as you age, motherhood will isolate you, parents will pass away, siblings maybe distanced and friends will never understand. They want you on your own, isolated, in pain and miserable.

>>>> he isnt keen on me seeing friends, but when i dont want him to see friends im controlling, crazy, obsessive, and creating problems

@PatronisingCalm @roses321 @Pinkbonbon @SheriffofRottingham

OP posts:
roses321 · 15/02/2024 13:46

sarahappleton284 · 15/02/2024 13:39

it's a tick box list for narcisists, each type will have their own methods but generally the early aims are confusion in the home, the misallignment of action and words, creating the lies that keeps the victim hooked. Then the negativity, you don't understand at first that you accomodating them all the time is actually their devine right to everything. You will argue fairness, your problems will never be heard or solved, we've now got to the banality and pointlessness of it, you stop arguing.

>>> confusion in the home stands out for me, he even said once (i had been quiet since he got home from work and he was just relaxing, me silent and not really talking "see how nice it is when you are quiet" or something along those lines. Confusion in my case is caused by ignoring me, for no reason, but then when I ask if he is fine, i am causing an argument or nagging. on weekends, he will wake up in a foul mood, we will be going somewhere and he just wont talk to me in the car journey, again i have no idea what i done, just by being myself he is annoyed at me.my problems are never solved bcause they are not problems in his eyes, they are already solved.

This is a win for them, this means they now have control, from there they have you depressed, exhausted and unable to be happy, even better, you won't want to socialise, this leaves them free to be happy to the outside world whilst you are a prisoner in your own mind. You are now the problem, internally and externally, it's at this point where you will find lack of understanding of your predicament the norm as you appeal to others. Are we reaching that point yet op ? You will soon stop asking those in real life, they don't understand.

>>>> i started to get down i suppose, tired, unhappy. then, when we go out with his friends and family, they are wondering why im quiet, not chirpy, not laughing, i look like the miserable one, dragging him down, being negative "shes so negative" yes i have stopped discussing this with friends and family, as they probably are frustrated i havent listened to them, and im embarrassed.

And it get's better as you age, motherhood will isolate you, parents will pass away, siblings maybe distanced and friends will never understand. They want you on your own, isolated, in pain and miserable.

>>>> he isnt keen on me seeing friends, but when i dont want him to see friends im controlling, crazy, obsessive, and creating problems

@PatronisingCalm @roses321 @Pinkbonbon @SheriffofRottingham

Honestly I did read was this user wrote and i was like wow... that is resonating SO much. I couldn't be arsed to type a reply at the time but I feel like yes yes yes this was my life and this is exactly how it worked in my life with my ex.

It speaks the truth.

sarahappleton284 · 15/02/2024 13:48

roses321 · 15/02/2024 13:46

Honestly I did read was this user wrote and i was like wow... that is resonating SO much. I couldn't be arsed to type a reply at the time but I feel like yes yes yes this was my life and this is exactly how it worked in my life with my ex.

It speaks the truth.

@roses321 its the worst. i wrote my replies in the comment above and put >>> - but its SO hard trying to put a brave face on with his friends and family when he is literally ignoring me, i feel so out of place, but if im quiet they think i am the miserable one/dragging him down.

OP posts:
roses321 · 15/02/2024 13:53

sarahappleton284 · 15/02/2024 13:48

@roses321 its the worst. i wrote my replies in the comment above and put >>> - but its SO hard trying to put a brave face on with his friends and family when he is literally ignoring me, i feel so out of place, but if im quiet they think i am the miserable one/dragging him down.

You don't have to deal with it you know. I know that you love him - I was mad about my ex, seriously, I wanted to marry him and spend my life with him, but honestly it's a trauma bond - read about it. You can plan to leave. It can only be when you are ready so no good people pressuring you but just know that it is possible.

BlueHops · 15/02/2024 15:03

no its not narcissism or abusive. he is annoyed at something with you (rightly or wrongly) - needs sorting out.

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