DP friends with ex-wife

[CarrotyO]

I've been with my DP almost 2 years. He's been separated from his exw about 4 years bu they always stayed friends. At the start of our relationship he was still married to exw and didn't see the need to divorce as "it's just a bit of paper". They were still very close - lots of texting conversations through the week, shared a car (it was her car but he had free parking so she parked the car at his place and he used it more often unless she wanted it, for example if she wanted to do something at the weekend she would take it), and met each other weekly to have dinner together and catch-up, or to go on nights out to the pub/bars with her and her DP.

I really struggled with their meet-ups because he had a habit of meeting with her and I would only find out afterwards, and often by accident because I had tried phoning and couldn't get through to him, despite asking him to be transparent and tell me in advance when he was meeting her.

I was very uncomfortable and pressured him to reduce contact and divorce. He has divorced now. It became a bit frosty between them during the divorce, and (slightly before the divorce) because he began to limit contact with her (for example, she had asked him to drive her and her cat to the vets, I was uncomfortable with it, he delayed in agreeing and she took a taxi instead).

The divorce was amicable and very straight forward as they have no DC, no shared property, no shared-finances etc. Things seem to have warmed up again now, they are texting each other to wish each other happy birthday, happy new year, sharing photos of their Christmas dinners with each other, giving each other updates on promotions at work, sharing youtube links to things she knows my DP is interested in. They have a long history (over 20 years together) and I think my DP would be happy to go back to weekly meet-ups with her if I wasn't so upset by this.

I feel like he is still attached to her. I want him to cut contact with her and focus on our relationship and building a relationship with me. I'm worried that even if we marry and have children he will still have a relationship with her. I don't want to be reminded of their long history together and want him to leave his past in the past.

@WhatShallIDoToday that was exactly my point. Comparing my own open and transparent friendship with my longstanding friend vs the secrecy of my ex's "friendship" with his ex.

The first is acceptable, the second is not.

Also for those who are saying he probably feels compelled to be secretive due to OP's jealousy. Do these people not realise that is not how healthy adult relationships work!! If one partner is unhappy or uncomfortable with something, the solution is not to keep doing it in secret, but the solution is to sit down as mature adults and work out a way that makes everybody feel happy and secure.

As soon as there are secrets in a relationship, it's dead in the water anyway.

My most recent ex and I are very good friends. We just weren't working as a relationship anymore. We see each other for a coffee and walk twice a week. We've both said that keeping the friendship going is non negotiable if we meet someone else. He's now my best mate and we won't ever get back together.

It's fine to not be OK with their level of contact. It's OK to say it's making you unhappy and so the relationship isn't working for you.

Given his recent offer, and if you feel that in every other way the relationship is a good, healthy one, I'd say to him 'I only want you to stop seeing ExW if that's what you want. Don't do it to shut me up. Don't do it if you think you'll miss her. Don't do it if you think you'll revert to talking to her again. Only do it if it's what you want, and if you won't revert back to it. Be honest with yourself and with me'.

If he doesn't want to stop then you have your answer, and you know this won't work for your longterm.

You're spending time with the wrong people if you think this is "something men are generally expected to do"

My best friend is a woman, as are plenty more of my friends. DP has never asked me to cut contact with them or see them less, because that would be really fucking weird and because she trusts me. Most of the men I know also have female friends, and it doesn't seem to bother their wives / partners either.

Thanks, a very fair point.
Perhaps I might compare it to trying to influence what you partner wears? It would be seen as a lot more intrusive from a man than a woman. On the other hand, there is far more expectation on a woman to take the man's name on marriage.
FWIW, I would prefer you did not lightly call my wife weird.

To be fair, I didn't. I had no idea whether you decided to cut out your friends off your own back because you got a girlfriend, whether you had a wife who mandated it, whether you'd cheated in the past and so it was a reasonable request.

I said I'd find the behaviour weird if my own DP did it, I don't suppose to judge anyone I've not met.

Fair enough, thanks.

If their divorce was due to a friendship-like dynamic rather than a romantic connection, it's unlikely that she poses a threat to you. It's more probable that he has an aversion to intimacy and is choosing to spend time with her because she represents a safe and non-threatening option.
My suggestion would be to focus on yourself, make yourself happy with whatever you need, and the dynamic might start to shift....

I don't think it's right for you to be telling another adult that he can't maintain a friendship if he wants to, tbh. It's not healthy or appropriate for you to be managing him like this, telling him he can't drive her to the vet, "pressuring" him etc. Neither of you is going to be happy living like that.

You can't control other people's choices, only your own. Right now your choices are: stay and accept that he has this intense friendship with another woman, or decide that that isn't for you and end the relationship.

LTB you deserve better x

Some of these responses are baffling. This isn’t just him having a friendship or the OP being controlling. This is his ex wife who he is massively over stepping boundaries with and has been for years! However, I do agree with a PP who said you had no business getting involved with him in the first place. It was very obvious he was still tangled up with his ex wife. Why did you insert yourself in such a situation and keep clinging on despite deep down knowing it’s not right? No one I know in real life would be ok with this situation. I wouldn’t haven even got involved to begin with. Move on and find yourself someone who is 100% yours.

I'd be off x

you intentionally picked a married man, and helped him cheat on his wife.

This is not true. They had been separated two years when I met him and she had been dating her bf for a year or so.

It was very obvious he was still tangled up with his ex wife. Why did you insert yourself in such a situation and keep clinging on despite deep down knowing it’s not right?

One of the issues was that it was a drip feed. He minimized the extent of their relationship for a long time. I only found out things as time went on, for example the extent of their daily texting and the secret meetings, and the fact that I wasn't invited to join them. When it came to a head he agreed to divorce and step back from her. When it comes to a head, he does eventually see things from my point of view, and chooses to prioritise me, it just isn't his first instinct.

Another key reason why I stayed, rather than cutting him off, is because I felt unsure I had a right to, and thought that the issue was my insecurity (that I could work on) in line with what PPs here are saying. I tried to work on my insecurity about it and failed.

Some posters here have told me to access therapy. I did actually find a counselor last time, when things were coming to a head. And she told me "there are three people in this relationship. You, your bf, and his wife." And counselled me to that effect. That did help me have the conversation with my bf that time, and he agreed to cut contact down, stop lying to me, and divorce.

Now you've made him cut her out completely, I'm really not sure what effect that will have on your relationship. And I suspect it'll only be five minutes before you find something/someone else that will trigger your jealousy.

I don't think this is the case. For the past year, I thought they weren't in contact and I've felt incredibly more secure in the relationship. I haven't had other jealousy issues in that time. I haven't made him cut her out, he offered this after seeing how upset I was, and it being obvious that something has to give.

I’d be of the opinion that our friendship as dear as it is to me, shouldn’t trump his main relationship and I wouldn’t be happy if I was causing stress in his marriage.

The fact that both of them are so willing to continue with this when it risks his current relationship says a lot

This is how I feel. I have a close male friend. When he got a long term partner and kids I did see less of him, and speak to him far less. I thought that was completely understandable. I wasn't arranging private dinner dates with him and ramping up the contact, which is what seemed to be happening between my DP and his exw when I came on the scene. My friendship with him was never secret, never minimised. When I meet with friends, I often bring my DP along. DP wanted solo meetups with his exw that excluded me. I think it's difficult for people to see my situation, when they have a similar situation (but less intense and obviously more normal).

It's more probable that he has an aversion to intimacy and is choosing to spend time with her because she represents a safe and non-threatening option.

This could well be true.

You can't control other people's choices, only your own. Right now your choices are: stay and accept that he has this intense friendship with another woman, or decide that that isn't for you and end the relationship.

These aren't the only choices. He could make changes.

Honestly, it really should be be this hard. You are trying to make something work that should never have been started in the first place. He was sneaking around behind your back at the start, drip feeding things to you. Its very likely he was sleeping with her as well as you in the beginning. Your counsellor was right - there are 3 people in your relationship but to be fair you knew this when you got involved. You might not have known the full extent but you knew. The only option you should take is to leave this man however it’s clear you don’t want that. You will just waste more years begging and hoping he will “make changes”. I think you both need fresh starts with someone new to be honest, this isn’t a healthy relationship and it hasn’t been from the start.

*shouldn't be this hard

Seeing as he is working on himself, he is probably quite like the man she married.

"I've been with my DP almost 2 years. He's been separated from his exw about 4 years bu they always stayed friends. At the start of our relationship he was still married to exw and didn't see the need to divorce as "it's just a bit of paper". They were still very close"

It is true. Separation is not divorce. He was legally married and shouldn't have been involved with anyone unless divorced and single for awhile. . He needed to make peace and tie up loose ends before getting into another relationship. They both should have done this.

She was cheating on her husband and got into a relationship she had no business being in.

He sounds like he did the same.
Both acting inappropriately.

They seem to perhaps trying to make each other jealous or something.. Maybe playing all these games and being petty with one another excites them.

Both just cheating on each other, getting and using new people involved in their mess, and yet carrying on with one another without regards and consideration towards others.

Separation, divorce, new partners, etc... never stopped being involved with one another.
You knew he was legally married, still very much involved with her and didn't care. You were involved with a married man.

Why weren't you repulsed, instead of being attracted and drawn in?? That is something that perhaps therapy could explore with you...

It's possibly red flags when someone has been separated for numerous years and refuses to get divorced, but yet becomes involved with other partners....while juggling balance between the two ...both in inappropriate ways.

Even if they were divorced when you met him, the fact is they still were behaving inappropriately and carrying on as if still in a relationship.. when you came into the picture

You don't think highly of yourself to go for all of this. It's not too late to learn how to love and respect yourself....unless you are determined to stay by his side ..no matter what...always yearning and in competition with her.

They'll never be done with one another. I hope that you have a few backup plans for your life, if perhaps he end things with you to "officially " be back with her.

Don't allow yourself to remain a doormat and available back up option.

You can't control other people's choices, only your own. Right now your choices are: stay and accept that he has this intense friendship with another woman, or decide that that isn't for you and end the relationship.

These aren't the only choices. He could make changes.

You've misunderstood what this poster was saying.

Those are your only choices.

He could choose to end his friendship, or he could choose not to. He could choose to continue to conceal it and carry on as he is. He could choose to leave it temporarily and resume at a later date.

But those are all his choices to make and you have no control over that.

You choices are to accept it as it currently is or end the relationship.

Our pattern at the beginning (and repeated now) is that I get very insecure and anxious about them, I think we need to end the relationship and I discuss that with him. He reassures and calms me and we stay together. This has happened again this time. Last night he said he chooses me and he will cut contact with her. I say that's not fair for him. He says 'that's life', it's a compromise he's willing to make, we don't always get what we want in life and he accepts that.

Rationally I know that you, and others who have made similar comments, are right. Neither of us should have let it get this far.

@CarrotyO it’s good that he has said he’s willing to prioritise your relationship over the friendship with his ex. I mean it’s the bare minimum really so not sure if “good” is the right word, but you know what I mean lol

Let’s see if he sticks by it though. If he doesn’t keep to what he said and starts sneaking around again I think you just need to cut your losses, and get out of there.

Not only because he would be seeing his ex again but the kind of deception involved in seeing someone behind your back is a pretty strong indicator that he is predisposed to cheat on you or lie in other ways eg. Lies about Finances.

It’s also more or less manipulation if he repeatedly tells you one thing to try and make you stay but doesn’t follow through with it. And it shows he isn’t someone who can be trusted or relied on.

If any of my friends got into relationships with partners who made them cut off friends, I'd be deeply concerned for them. This has happened a few times - new partners (both male and female) exhibiting irrational jealousy about opposite-sex friends or exes. It's always been a red flag for further controlling behaviour down the line.

I don't actually think a partner should come before friends, and I don't believe that I should prioritise reassuring a man if I think his feelings are irrational. If a man wanted me to reduce contact with my old friends, including exes, just because he was in his feelings about them... I would refuse, and I would leave him.

DP is DP because he's not the sort of man to ever make a ludicrous request like that.

@gannett I actually never spoke about a partner making them “cut off friends”

my point was, once a woman starts being uneasy around me being best mates with her husband I’d be out of there. I wouldn’t let it escalate to her making ultimatums or him feeling like he had to choose. I’d make it easy for both of them and just exit that situation. It’s just an awkward situation to find yourself in and my best hope is for a friends wife not to have an issue in the first place , but once they do I’m not going to stick around.

Sometimes a woman is uneasy simply because some people (not me) don’t think men and women can be close friends. I don’t think like that myself, but I can still be empathetic towards people who just don’t get how their (heterosexual) partner can have an opposite sex bestie especially if that person is single.

Thankfully my best guy friends wife likes me and doesn’t see me as a threat at all 😅 she is super nice and friendly to me but I still definitely know her marriage is more important than mine and her husbands friendships.

I'm not really empathetic towards those people. I'd have as much respect for them as I would have if they thought a woman's place was in the home. Placating other people's nonsense isn't really how I wish to live my life. Luckily in practice that just means surrounding myself with friends and a partner who also think those opinions are crazy.

@gannett Well I have a lot of empathy and can see things from other peoples POV.

personally, I wouldn’t put a woman being nervous about their male spouse having an opposite sex close friendship in the same category as say a misogynistic man.

And let’s be real here - there are many people, even here on Mumsnet who do reveal they have or develop feelings for their male bestie (or vice Versa) so it’s not completely outlandish that they’d have reservations depending on the closeness. I know myself and I wouldn’t touch a married man, but they obviously don’t know or trust me to the same extent as I know myself.

Even if I did think it was just “nonsense” I’m still not going to be part of putting undue stress on their marriage for the sake of my friendship.

As long as my friend is happy with their wife and kids that’s good with me, although I would of course miss their company.