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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Here is what is wrong with men in 2023 and what we can do about it

434 replies

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 17:52

Hi all. Ive come to a realisation lately that has almost brought me close to tears because I have to accept that Im probably going to be single for the rest of my life. Grab a cuppa because this is probably going to be long.

For context, I am a single 33 year old female with my own business, own house, no kids, independent, no baggage, relatively attractive (without blowing my own trumpet) and look young enough than my actual age, have a masters degree, love travelling, open minded, funny (I like to think so), clever, lots of friends, love socialising (out most weekends), and I have some depth to me and actually give a shit about things in life that a lot of people disregard, like animal welfare, homelessness etc. In a nutshell, I’m decent.

Here is the boat I find myself in…
I’ve had 3 proper relationships in my life, all no longer than 12 months, 2 of them verbally abusive and cheaters. Ive got a thick skin now and try not to take any shit and I’m aware of potential red flags that may pop up. Ive been on my own for over 5 years now, with little flings here and there. I’ve tried online dating, but the thing is, I only swipe for the ones conventionally ‘good looking’. By good looking I mean - nice smile and teeth, reasonably attractive, over 6ft (sorry – this is a dealbreaker for me but open minded to many other things), decent job, decent human being. I don’t care if theyre divorced or already have kids, I’m just fundamentally looking for the bare minimum – to fancy them, initially. I’ve had sexless relationships in the past and its not fun for either party – fancying someone is a must.

Whenever I fancy men in real life, I imagine if they were on a dating site and I ask myself if I’d have swiped for them based just on their pictures and the answer is no, I probably wouldn’t, unless of course they are the ‘conventionally good looking’ type that have had the balls to come over to me on a night out (rarely happens these days, and if it does, they turn out to be a narcissist – hence the macho confidence and charisma). So I know dating sites aren’t working for me, as Im much more likely to fancy someone when I can see the ‘fuller picture’ ie their voice, humour, intelligence, wittiness, their mannerisms etc etc. My theory is that most of the men that are conventionally ‘good looking’ and get the most swipes, are probably lacking in all the areas Ive listed above that are attractive traits, and are more than likely players as they have the pick of the bunch (we are ALL swiping for the good looking ones – and they fucking know it!).
You might ask why I haven’t settled down with the men ive met organically then above, the ‘normal’ ones that have traits I like. Here is where my problem really is – they have clocked on that they are a fucking rarity.

Have you been on a night out recently and looked around? There are about 15 attractive women to every ‘good looking’ man. I believe this is because women naturally take more pride in their appearance than men do, and now that we earn our own money, we splash it on treatments and tweakments. It isn’t unusual for a woman to have botox, fillers, hair extensions, nails, the latest clothes, boob job and all the rest – infact, that’s pretty normal for a modern woman in 2023.
Equally, what are men having done? Well, theres the ones who give a shit about their appearance so they might go to the gym 4 times a week (no im not talking about sted heads - yuck), they may splash out in designer gear head to toe (cringe), or the ones with a little bit of class may shop at Reiss instead (better), but you get my jist. They might visit the barber once a week too for a fresh trim. And the rest of them? Nada. No gym, possibly a standard receding haircut or balding (that theyre not bothered about), maybe they haven’t gone shopping for years. But what do both of these types of men both have in common? They both think they are entitled to stunning women.

As ive explained, the ratio of attractive women to attractive men is off the scale. If you haven’t noticed it before, you will now, especially 40 year olds and under. 50 years ago, you were either pretty or you weren’t. You were either an alpha male at 6 ft 2, or you weren’t, and that was ok. You would simply marry up (literally) with someone who was in the same league as you. Now, women are having to lower their bar and accept less than what they deserve, simply because theres so much competition and not enough men to go around. Ask yourself, how many kind, gorgeous, successful, funny, clever, good yet single women do you know? I can bet it’s a lot.

Again, looking back at relationships 50 years ago and more, there was a ‘trade off’. Men needed sex (its in their DNA, they need it), and women needed protecting. Marriage made sense, both sexes were getting a good deal. Pretty much all women were virgins until they were married, and kind of understood the unwritten rule that they needed to ‘keep their man happy’. On the other hand, men kept us happy too. We didn’t need to work and split the finances, we had the luxury of staying at home, cooking, cleaning and raising the kids as regardless of what anyone says, women are more nurturing, emotional, and quite frankly - do a better job of bringing up the children. This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

We then kicked off that we wanted equal rights to men, equal pay, equal jobs, the list goes on, and we got it. We are now a bunch of independent, self sufficient, home owning, driving, single mothers. We’re basically masculine. The men haven’t changed their role though, they aren’t now staying at home, cooking, cleaning and bringing up the kids, they haven’t sacrificed anything but yet they are still reaping the awards. The award – sex.

We somehow have manipulated ourselves into believing that woman need sex like men do (we don’t), and we can sleep around, use men, get our kit off and call it ‘empowering’. It was only empowering when we got the respect we deserved 50 years ago and the mortgage paid. Now, we don’t get called the next day and get pied off for a woman 10 years younger. Men don’t want commitment, period. We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them. The only benefit they have from having a woman in their lives is sex. Period. And we have continued to spoil them with it, with minimal effort from them. We’re lucky if they buy us a plate of food before we do the honour. But we naturally want more, we are wired differently to men, and this is why they USED to meet us in the middle.

But here’s the thing, when we demand more (commitment), the men back off - have you noticed? We get ghosted when we want something in return. Do not let other women fool you into thinking both sexes are getting a good deal by having intercourse, we aren’t. Men inherently need sex, they think about sex thousands of times per day, they even pay for it, and women enjoy it…sometimes, but we don’t inherently need it.
So why on earth are we still having sex freely with men who haven’t earned it, sometimes even with strangers, and blaming being ghosted on countless other reasons? Hes not ready for commitment, hes been hurt before, hes too busy with work, hes avoidantly attached…he’s not. He just doesn’t want to buy the cow when the milk is free.

I personally have took a stance and have stopped having sex with men that haven’t put the bare minimum amount of effort in, to be frank. By bare minimum, I mean he returns my texts, picks me up, takes me out for a few dinners and is nice to me. I’m not asking for a lot. Ive read ‘Why Men Love Bitches’ and ‘The Rules’ – but these books only work with 2 willing participants. It still doesn’t develop into the fairytale romance I had once envisioned on the first date with him, he either doesn’t feel a connection or he’s backed away at the thought of committing.

Some of you will say “not all men are like that”. This is true. Here is my other theory – the ‘other’ men who may be short, insecure, abusive, jobless, homeless, ugly or stupid may be more than willing to settle down with me – you can bet their bottom dollar they are – but I would like someone who brings something to the table, like I do. I won’t fancy a man who is wet behind the ears, who is scared of a hard days work and would be happy to sit at home raising our kids – it’s not masculine and I don’t want it. The ‘other’ men who are none of the things I’ve listed above and are genuinely fantastic men with a lot to offer, raised right and want to commit to a good woman – guess what? THEY ARE ALREADY TAKEN. They were taken in their twenties, and they stayed with that woman, because they are kind, loving, loyal men.

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER and we are left with the commitment phobes, abusers, narcissists or tons of baggage that we don’t want. The feminist movement along with plastic surgery and ‘empowering’ women has damaged us. We now all offer the same thing to men and they are spoiled for choice. I was chatting with a male friend of mine not long ago who had been seeing a woman who ticked a lot of boxes but she wanted exclusivity before she agreed to have sex. He didn’t want to be exclusive or commit in any way to any woman, so he let her go. I asked him if he was confident if he would find a good woman like her again in the future, he said yes, and I believe him. We are all competing with each other to be the thinnest, prettiest, most enhanced, smartest, richest to bag the best man, and he’s sitting back and laughing at us all climb over each other in desperation. He’s chilled as a cucumber.

My biological clock is ticking, his isn’t. The men aren’t worried, we are. The men aren’t on mumsnet starting threads about women who won’t have sex with them, because we do. But trust me, if we took this big asset away, they would. Have you noticed how many eligible bachelors you know who just decide when theyre about 45-50 that they are ‘finally ready to settle down’? And they find someone pretty much right away, usually 15 years younger, a box ticker, no kids, no baggage and very fucking fertile. He becomes a dad and gets married and everyone goes “ah at last! He finally found -the One!”. No – she isn’t the one who changed him, she was the one who was there when he realised his looks were fading and he better take what he can while he can. Meanwhile, the women he messed around with back in the day are well into their fifties, still single, possibly childless and debating whether to date someone 20 years older who may cherish them the way no man their age ever did. Do I want to date someone 20 years older than me to feel special? No thanks.

I believe if we all took a stance and stopped giving men the one thing they NEED (sex), until they give us what we NEED (love and commitment), things will change. Stop sexting and sending nudes – they used to pay Babestation for that, now we’re doing it for free! Stop allowing them to waltz in and out of your life every other weekend when he feels like it. Stop popping kids out to undeserving men who wont even put a ring on your finger. A child is the greatest gift a woman can give to a man, its priceless and its basically fucking magical. Yet, people are allowing their wombs to be invaded by men who couldn’t give 2 shits about them when it comes down to it. We then raise fatherless children who grow up with daddy issues and the cycle repeats again. We need to raise the bar and say NO collectively, or else it won’t work. The bimbo on Saturday night who goes home with him after one drink (bare minimum) will undo all our hard work.
If the feminist movement hadn’t have happened, I don’t believe relationships would be as dire as they are right now. Its great that we earn the same as men and have our independence, but look at the price we have paid. They haven’t paid any price, nothing has changed for them, infact it only got EASIER. They still get sex and kids, but no bills or commitment – bingo! We have normalised this behaviour and it’s time to put an end to it.

I can turn down a man for sex tomorrow, but he’s not bothered because he always knows this… theres another desperate girl hoping that if she fucks like a pornstar Friday night she will bag him. She won’t. And he will move on to the next. Women look for love, men only fall in love by accident – by spending quality time with a woman. But they can’t fall in love if we give it up too easy when his foot is already out the door.

As you can tell I've given this a lot of thought and I'm disappointed with where I find myself at my age, and where I think the world is heading. Does anyone else feel the same way?

OP posts:
User135644 · 08/01/2024 18:42

Winnading · 08/01/2024 18:40

I think it's a man. I couldn't read it all, far too long. But the berating women sounds like a man.

It probably is actually.

12menandtrue · 08/01/2024 18:42

What a piece of work you are. Not surprised you are single.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 08/01/2024 18:42

TLDR

Tewkesbury · 08/01/2024 18:43

TLDR

TheNinny · 08/01/2024 18:43

stopped reading at “men need sex- it’s in thier DNA” I know quite a few men who don’t have sex of get very infrequent. But they are still very much alive as far as I know….this very much reads like a man(boy) wrote this as a reverse or something.

RedHelenB · 08/01/2024 18:43

Ascubudr · 08/01/2024 18:06

I don't know where to start here. If you want a boyfriend you need to lower your standards- simples. My husband of 18 years does half the housework and childcare. I am bettervat organisation, he is better at DIY. We both like sex.

I can see why OP is single.

Whataretheodds · 08/01/2024 18:44

Couldn't get to the end of that. Is that post representative of what it's like to date you?

Newsflash: you will undoubtedly miss out on great guys that you could have been incredibly sexually attracted to if only you'd pulled your head out of your "must be conventionally attractive" and "must be over 6 foot" arsenal.

pinksunglasses · 08/01/2024 18:45

Hugsandkisses1 · 08/01/2024 18:35

Just want to say that I am not one of the women who have tons of filler, surgery and wear lots of make up, I like to keep it pretty natural. I'm also not superficial, I'm not asking for a millionnaire with a 6 pack am I? I'm asking for a decent man I find attractive (I happen to like men over 6 ft) the same way some men prefer big boobs. And I can assure you I'm not an incel, I could have sex tonight if I wanted to, the point of the thread is that its superficial and I want more...true love and commitment, but men don't want to provide that anymore as they are like kids in a candy shop with women giving up sex so early these days. They get FOMO by committing to one woman. I cant lower my standards as theres no room to lower it anymore. I have dated normal blokes, none of them exceptionally gorgeous - just normal, and this is the issue I find

It’s so sad that you feel like the only resource you have to offer a man is sex. 😕 Men - believe it or not - need love, commitment and companionship too.

It feels like you’re trying to convince yourself that men only want sex because it’s easier than wondering about what else the problem could be. It sounds like you don’t actually like men very much, that’s probably coming across. 🤷🏼‍♀️

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 08/01/2024 18:45

Get therapy. It will a) help you with those myriad issues and b) mean we don't have to read this bilge.

Pity the therapist, though.

All2Well · 08/01/2024 18:45

This really really reads like a man wrote it.

And it's very poorly written. As a single, professional, attractive woman myself, I completely disagree with most of it. It's not at all reflective of the men (or women) I know.

MaggieNextDoor · 08/01/2024 18:46

Can I add my vote to those who think a man wrote this? Incels infiltrating a parenting site, populated mostly by women, what a hoot.

Ascubudr · 08/01/2024 18:46

Bathtimebarbara · 08/01/2024 18:12

I gave up when you said women 50 years ago had it easy as they stayed at home had kids and cooked.

Maternal mortality
No convenience goods or food

I don't disagree with the sentiment but 50 years ago was 1973 maternal mortality was very low and most people had washing machines and fridges !

Ladolcevita233 · 08/01/2024 18:47

Oneofthesurvivors · 08/01/2024 18:08

This reads like an incel wrote it and then reversed it.

Yep - this is an incel, red pill manifesto.

With someone pretending to be writing from the perspective of a woman.

They need to get out more.

Whataretheodds · 08/01/2024 18:47

We nag them, we remind them of their mothers, they have more fun with their friends and we’re a headache to them

Speak for yourself.

acpk55 · 08/01/2024 18:48

User135644 · 08/01/2024 18:38

The OP is referring to the men at the top. The ones who can have their pick and aren't picking her.

Most men are invisible to her.

^^ this the OP is looking at top 10% of men, who are ignoring her.

StephanieLampshade · 08/01/2024 18:48

You sound exceedingly superficial

Ladolcevita233 · 08/01/2024 18:49

The dating pool for 30, 40, 50 something women now is DIER

Dier??

Do you mean dire?

You wrote a novel and can't spell check dire?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 08/01/2024 18:50

Ascubudr · 08/01/2024 18:46

I don't disagree with the sentiment but 50 years ago was 1973 maternal mortality was very low and most people had washing machines and fridges !

And freezers. As for no convenience food, women were entering the workforce in ever increasing numbers and shops like M&S weren't slow to see a huge market opening up.

https://www.mylearning.org/stories/mands-convenience-food/604?

NahHumBrag · 08/01/2024 18:50

Frostytwiglet · 08/01/2024 18:36

I'd bet you £50 the OP was written by a man, or maybe a 15 year old boy.

I’ll take that bet and raise it £100.

I too thought ‘Isn’t Andrew Tate banged up / under house arrest?’ Guess they’ve not taken away his internet access.

blacksax · 08/01/2024 18:51

It was like that 50 years ago? <it wasn't, I was there>
Men needed sex and women needed protecting?

Oh... it's a typo. Should have read 50,000 years ago.

Coincidentally · 08/01/2024 18:51

Men have it tough too! Have two sons and my lovely son who is about 5 10 gets no likes because they - all want 6 footers.
On the other hand, I am over 60 but just finished with an over 6ft gorgeous man of 54 (met in RL not app) because he was stupid jealous and now have three men on their 50s (2over 6ft 😂) interested. Not because I am gorgeous (I am not!!!!) But because I meet people in RL and am generally friendly and natural and they just want to spend time with me. How about just
try that ?

NahHumBrag · 08/01/2024 18:52

You need to get down the gym OP - it’ll help you work off some of your negativity. You might even meet a woman man in the process.

KissTheRains · 08/01/2024 18:53

The Americans call it "The 666 man"

It's being noted by a lot of online dating websites and such that the top guys get the messages and matches. The 666 man won't be faithful because he knows he'll always have another option around the corner.

If all the single women are going for the top 10%, why would those top 10% of guys stay faithful?

And it's very easy to filter the potential dating pool down to a small percentage.

"I won't date any man earning less than £30k"
Just on that one metric alone, you've eliminated millions of potential dates as someone earning over £30k earns more than 75% of the population.

"I won't date anyone thats under 6ft"
Average male height in the UK is 5"8' so that filter has eliminated millions more.

Now you've got 5%-10% of single guys you're going for, but those 5%-10% of top single guys are going for the 18-25 year old Insta Girls.
They'll sleep with older, lie and say it's more than just a bunk up, but they're basically using women as masturbatory aids.

Ladolcevita233 · 08/01/2024 18:53

This worked out fine for men - they went to work, provided for their family (which triggered their hero instinct), and got their dick sucked in return. Masculine and feminine energy intertwined perfectly, sorry feminists, but its true. And the women were happy, until they weren’t.

They weren't happy.

This is a nice story you've told yourself though. Lovely and black and white, no grey. No correlation with actual history.

Simple minds need simple answers.

Aw incels ..... Gtfo this site. You have a million forums of your own.

Hubblebubble · 08/01/2024 18:54

I'm not sure whether it's more or less worrying if this was written by an actual woman or a man pretending to be one.

Swipe left for the next trending thread