Should I be concerned about his reaction to marriage?

[togp]

I'm 33, partner is 34. We've been together 4 years and have previously discussed getting married and having children.

The last few weeks I've had a feeling of wanting to move along with these goals as we're both settled and not getting any younger.

I brought it up with him last week and he was really blase about it all. He answered with 'yeah we'll do all of that soon' and when I pressed for more details and more of a timeline he said 'in a couple of years' but didn't really give any specifics about what would be in a couple of years.

His lack of detail was niggling at me so I asked again yesterday and I got upset when he said I didn't trust him and that he doesn't know why I'm asking. I explained I wanted a bit of a plan as we haven't actually ever had a specific time frame and that we've been together a while so what are we waiting for. I tried to say this in a light hearted way, but he made me feel like I was being desperate. He then said 'well I don't have a ring, but I've always said we will get married' and left it at that.

My birthday was in December and I feel like I'm getting older so maybe that's why I feel so unsure about it all, but something about his answers has made me doubt we're on the same page, despite him always saying we are...

It doesn't need to be some romcom mystery ball totally in his court while you sit passively by chewing your nails to shreds.
In a modern relationship ship it should be something discussed and planned not a gift conferred on you by the man. That's the marriage bit.
The children bit, that needs seriously setting a date to start trying. It could take years to happen so you need to think when is ok rather than perfect. Put the perfect time in the middle of a timeline and then decide what would be the earliest you'd cope with it and put that at the start, then put the oldest you see yourself having children at the end of the timeline.

Your clock is ticking- I’m sorry to say it sounds like you are not Mrs forever to him, BUT you have to have that conversation with him before you waste more time. How about your goals - speak to him- better to be free with a chance of meeting mr right and if you don’t you can decide whether to have children as a lone parent ( which is way better than with a reluctant father)

You are not alone. There are umpteen threads about women in your age group whose male partners won't commit. It seems to be increasingly common. Maybe they're worried about house prices or the cost of living etc? Or maybe they just don't see the need to commit when they have all the benefits of living with someone but can still call themselves single. Don't forget, they also don't have biological clocks ticking away and many of the men I have known are not especially desperate to have children.

something about his answers has made me doubt we're on the same page, despite him always saying we are

Well, he doesn't get to decide if you're on the same page, does he? If you doubt that you are, then you're not, regardless of what he says/thinks. And if you tell him you're not on the same page and he says you are, that's a complete dismissal of your feelings.

Have you told him that's how you feel? How did he respond? Or, if not, how would you expect him to respond, and what stops you telling him?

What do you want? Marriage in a year and kids within 2 years? Something different? Decide, then ask him if he'll do it. The look on his face whilst you explain to him will tell you all you need to know about how keen he is to accommodate your feelings, ideas and plans.

How disappointing of him.

It’s your life, OP. Be an active participant in it. He doesn’t get to hold all the cards. Mutually agree on a year to get married and a year to TTC, then start to arrange that. If he will not engage then it’s time to leave the relationship. If he’s ‘not ready’, then I’m sorry but 4yrs into a serious relationship in his 30s then he will never be ready.

At 34 I wouldn’t delay to be honest.
he is letting you know he’s not very keen here so I would quietly walk away. It will be harder to meet someone and have time for kids at 37

Thank you for your replies, they've helped me to remember that my needs and wants are valid. I need to talk to him about it properly, I think I will spend some time by myself writing out my own timeline and seeing how he reacts to it.

I had a bad relationship in my early-mid twenties and didn't date for a few years because I needed to get my confidence back. My new partner is nothing like that relationship but his vague answers make me panic!

My DH dithered about DC for years, so we ended up without any....

We're fine but if DC & marriage is important to you, then you do need to firm up plans.

I'd have already lost my temper and said to him "I'm not going to be sitting around forever waiting for you to decide whether you want to marry me or not. I'm a catch and there's plenty of other men who'd want to marry me, so you need to start thinking seriously about it or I'm off".

Have a time in your head and if he's not proposed by then (and more to the point, set a date and started planning a wedding with you), you need to leave him.

I had a bad relationship in my early-mid twenties and didn't date for a few years because I needed to get my confidence back. My new partner is nothing like that relationship but his vague answers make me panic

Careful not to dismiss your concerns by putting them down to you being problematic. You want clarity and answers; he's not giving them to you. That's got nothing to do with your past relationships. You are allowed to want clarity and answers.

Men won't buy the cow when they get the milk for free.

There is no incentive for men to marry these days.

You need to set your boundaries.

He could string you along for another 4 years, leave you too old to start again but with enough time for him to still get married and have DCs.

Tell him if you want 2 DCs you need x months between births and your fertility declines faster post 35 so you need to conceive dc1 by x date. And that you need to be married before ttc and ttc could take 6 months.

Tell him straight that every month he delayed now makes it less and less likely you'll ever be a mother and that is more important to you than your relationship with him.

4 years is long enough for him to decide if you're the women he wants to marry & have DCs with. If he doesn't love you enough now to get married he never will.

Tell him you deserve the love of someone who is willing to commit to you.

In the meantime absolutely do not get pregnant and don't pay into any mortgage/debts of his. Also don't do any wife work for him.

What arrogance and a huge sense of self importance. No one has an entitlement to a proposal and x number of DC by a certain time. Maybe in certain quarters on MN, but not in real life. And you will find many posts where forcing someone to be a reluctant spouse/parent has ended in tears.

If my DP expressed views that I was just a means to an end and that being a parent was more important than our relationship, I’d drop said DP like a hot brick!

At your age for me this is not good enough. There has to be a constructive conversation about your plans and timelines especially if you want kids.

@togp 2024 is a leap year so you could know, for certain, by Feb 14th 💝🙂

I had to give my first husband a real shove to get married, it backfired spectacularly soon after.

I'm sorry OP.
It is true that at your age your partner risks you being single and in a much more precarious situation with regards to fertility for example if he strings you along for several years and then you end up breaking up.

I was in a similar situation in my early 30s as my then partner was very relaxed about getting married (read- unenthusiastic). I managed to persuade him and he seemed to get on board. Sure enough, the marriage was not happy and we split up after a couple of years and are now divorced.

I've been lucky enough to meet someone much much nicer and more suited to me but the time scale means I will be in late 30s when we start trying for a baby, so am realistic that it may be difficult/impossible.
I am very sad that a big chunk of my 30s was wasted on that previous relationship and wish I'd had the courage to face up to the fact that my ex wasn't right for me.

Speaking as someone who's been in a similar boat, please don't let your wish to be married and have children propel you into marrying someone who doesn't truly want to marry you. You deserve better and will be much happier finding someone who is as enthusiastic about your future as you are.

There are too many of these threads.
I have said it several times and I will say it again , nine times out of ten these men don’t want to get married to that particular person.
Op, you are both in your thirties, surely this is a great time to get married , particularly since you have been together for four years
He doesn’t want to marry you. Trust me.

I think this is HORRIBLE of him. Absolutely horrible. And all the other blokes who do this. It is deeply deeply selfish. His clock isn't ticking, but yours is.
Whilst he does indeed get to make a choice not to commit is marriages/babies isn't what he wants, even yet; what he doesn't get to choose is taking your choice away.
Think seriously about your time line op. You are 34. Ttc even starting today, say 1 year to get pregnant, that's first baby at 36, say second at 38. That means you have a 12 year old at 50.
If you have to start again, that puts you what 3 years further down the line.
These are, imo, quite serious numbers op, and I'm writing it out to impress upon you that you can't delay this any longer.
Write out your timeline, serious chat tune with him, and I'm afraid you don't have the luxury of accepting vague responses at this stage. Also, I hope you know his lying clues. If he says 'next year' you will need to know for sure he means next year, and he's not saying it to procrastinate come next year.

I have worked something out recently about people, well blokes. My exhusband would be described by everyone as a 'nice guy'. Laid back, no conflict, no drama, no arguments. Good traits at the beginning. He 'told people what they wanted to hear.' He described that about himself and I accepted it as a positive, as he never caused upset.
Once we were divorced and I no longer have emotions for him, I have realised 'telling people what they want to hear' is in fact 'lying' or 'being a coward'. Now when I hear him talk, I realise that almost everything he says is actually a lie. 'Soon' means 'never'. 'We can see about that' means 'never'. Etc etc it's quite fascinating to listen to once you've woken up to it.

Anyway, I'm writing about my exh not to talk about myself, but because I think he is a very very typical bloke, and I would urge you to listen very very carefully to the actual words your dp says in response. My ex wouldn't outright lie in his mind, but he did it via this vague method.

I don't think he wants to marry you (and is just throwing the target into the future rather than telling you this).

Spot on @heartofglass23

@Bonmot57 - that isn't arrogance or entitlement, it's biological fact! And the op absolutely is entitled to talk to her partner about her desires. She can't and shouldnt force him though, as that will end in tears, but he gets a choice here to commit, and she gets a choice whether she accepts that or not.

He actually doesn’t sound a nice man - he has no intention of having children - you really need to step back and really look at how he treats you. Look at his actions and not his words. Just because your last partner was a shit don’t be grateful that this partner is a bit less of a shit. Why don’t you go for therapy by yourself it may support you with your needs. Well you know what you want - he doesn’t want the same - you need to decide if you are willing to sacrifice your needs for his. I too have read so so many threads about these men - they lie and lie, then meet someone else and have children - going to therapy may give you the strength to end it AND if he says he wants what you want then let his actions show he means it.
I wish you well.

Yes, you should be concerned. So many women have been strung along in their 30s by men who ultimately didn’t want to commit to them and wasted their fertile years, only realising when it was too late.

He may genuinely be unaware that women’s fertility declines as sharply as it does and think you have as much time as he does. (You don’t). If that’s the case, you need to point it out to him. Or he maybe a complete time waster who has no real intention of ever marrying you, or having children with you, but is just keeping you on side till someone else comes along. You need to find out which it is, sooner rather than later.

He "doesn't know why you're asking"? Does he not understand about women's fertility starting to decline in their mid to late 30s? You need to spell it out to him that the reason you're asking isn't because you "don't trust him" (not sure what he means by that) but because you're worried about running out of time to have babies.

Personally I think that if you've been together four years he should know one way or the other. It's fine for him to need a few weeks to think about things, but if he can't commit then I'd be moving on. Vague answers involving years rather than months wouldn't be good enough for me. I agree with a pp about proposing on 29th Feb!

On online dating, there are huge numbers of men in their late 40s, early 50s who have detailed that they 'have no children, want children' and I just think you selfish selfish men. They skipped their chance in their 30s choosing instead to have fun with no responsibility. And had the arrogance to think they'll just pick up a 30 yo in their late 40s/50s. Too late, tough shit for most of them apart from the good looking/rich.