Should I be concerned about his reaction to marriage?

[togp]

I'm 33, partner is 34. We've been together 4 years and have previously discussed getting married and having children.

The last few weeks I've had a feeling of wanting to move along with these goals as we're both settled and not getting any younger.

I brought it up with him last week and he was really blase about it all. He answered with 'yeah we'll do all of that soon' and when I pressed for more details and more of a timeline he said 'in a couple of years' but didn't really give any specifics about what would be in a couple of years.

His lack of detail was niggling at me so I asked again yesterday and I got upset when he said I didn't trust him and that he doesn't know why I'm asking. I explained I wanted a bit of a plan as we haven't actually ever had a specific time frame and that we've been together a while so what are we waiting for. I tried to say this in a light hearted way, but he made me feel like I was being desperate. He then said 'well I don't have a ring, but I've always said we will get married' and left it at that.

My birthday was in December and I feel like I'm getting older so maybe that's why I feel so unsure about it all, but something about his answers has made me doubt we're on the same page, despite him always saying we are...

‘If my DP expressed views that I was just a means to an end and that being a parent was more important than our relationship, I’d drop said DP like a hot brick!’

Jolly good. Then said ‘brick’ could find someone who wants to build a house with them.

I was once told to 'wait' by a man who apparently wanted a relationship with me but 'wasn't ready' because of his ex. I thought he was a giant red flag and I obviously didn't wait.

It's harder to be that black and white when you've already invested in a relationship, but I do understand what you're all saying. Actions do speak a lot louder than words and I certainly haven't accepted his vague answers. Maybe I've been kicked into reality too.

heartofglass23 ........ If my DP expressed views that I was just a means to an end and that being a parent was more important than our relationship, I’d drop said DP like a hot brick!

Gosh me too, with indecent haste.

Urgh, OP, sorry but you’ve just come away from that conversation with exactly the same situation – him holding all the cards and you still in the dark.

You should have mutually agreed a date by when the proposal would happen – then you get your certainty and he would get his ‘surprise’. You would also have known when to definitely walk away.

That he would not step up there and then shows there’s really no change. His ‘magic’ will only breed resentment, and he should understand that.

@togp

I'm going to watch and listen very carefully over the next few weeks to see what happens. I hope he's genuinely been unaware and he realises what is at stake, and that he's been kicked into reality!

In this period of waiting and watching, perhaps you could also give thought to seeing what your need to do, in practical terms, if his answer isn't what you want to hear. Discreetly Take a look at your accommodation needs if you were to separate because you really aren't on the same page; how would your finances look with just you responsible for paying for everything; what area would you want to/could you afford to live in, etc.

You've taken the step of talking clearly to him and setting out how the situation is for you from a biological standpoint - hopefully you'll get a positive answer quickly and things will move more quickly. But no harm in being prepared if circumstances don't work out and you're serious about moving on. 🌹

Give him a bit of time op. You've just given him all the facts, let him digest it for a bit.

What is wife work? 😂😂😂

Any update OP?

If he wanted to get married, you would know. No man who is keen would let you feel uncertain and doubtful about your future.

I'm sorry OP. Time to tell him straight - you want to make firm plans for marriage (not a ring, booking a wedding) otherwise you are off.

I know a number of women whose partners strung them along for years into their mid-late 30s and never proposed and they didn't have kids. In a couple of cases the women never did find a suitable partner in time to have children. One gave up and became a single mum by choice, although she says she would have much preferred to have a partner.

It's quite common for these men to decide they do want marriage and kids after all after meeting a younger woman and ditching their longterm partner. That happened to a good friend.

Of course unfortunately the issue is men don't have the biological clock that we do and have the luxury to "wait and see" and "think about it".

There have been so many of these threads where women who KNOW they want marriage and children to be strung along this way. In the experience of older women such as myself, men who want to be married and want to marry YOU get on with it, as they are scared of losing you. They also want to build a life and family with you and want to get started asap.

When they have no sense of urgency they have no strong interest in marrying you, especially when you have both set up what they consider a cushy life where they get to split the bills, have a GF who often creates an attractive home environment and they get regular sex.

It's fine if as a woman that's what you want, but if you know you want marriage and kids trying to persuade him to propose when he is reluctant to is a fools errand. You are also setting yourself up for an unhappy marriage where he will resent you if things don't turn out as expected.

Find a man with the same life goals as you, who is ready to pull the trigger and not exist in relationship limbo indefinitely.

@Redpeonies I agree with everything you’ve said but I also understand how hard it is, to contemplate making that break if he doesn’t want marriage. There is a good chance the OP will meet someone more suitable but there are no guarantees (saying this because I’ve been in the OP’s shoes)

Today I asked him what he was thinking. He said he has always been clear about wanting to marry me (which is true, he has always said that)...and told me he wants us to be married within 18 months, trying for a child immediately after. That leaves me at 34 and a half as I've just turned 33.

Actions of booking an actual wedding will have to happen before that 18 months so I will take my foot off the pedal momentarily and see if he comes true to his word.

As another poster said, I've given him the facts so he can digest them. I'm also working away for a week later this month so he has time without me to think...as do I without him.

Thanks again all for the replies, they really helped me to clarify things for myself :)

You should let him know that it's not only your biological clock that ticking as aging has an effect on male fertility as well.
Once men are out of their 30's there sperm mobility decreases. And the risks only increase year after year.

Sperm progressive motility (A + B) Progressive motility decreased as age increased. All age ranges presented statistically significant impairments, unlike the rest of the examined parameters. Group aged 31-40 years - OR: 3.24; 95% CI [1.17-8.94]; p=0.023; group aged 41-50 years - OR: 5.24; 95% CI [1.89-14.52]; p=0.001; group aged 50 or older - OR: 11.91; 95% CI [4.04-35.07]; p<0.0001; all comparisons versus the group aged 21-30 years.

Why on earth 18 months? A year and a half for what?
He's using you for a fool.

If he plans to be married within 18 months he'd better get a move on as you could be married to someone else by then.

I don't think he listened to you op.
Why 18 months? That's too far away unless he puts his money where his mouth is and starts planning for it, and putting down deposits as soon as you're back from your trip.

Hmmmmm, a registry office wedding or low-key hotel wedding could be arranged within the next few months ……

But no harm in seeing where the next few weeks take you, OP

18 months? That just sounds like a figure plucked out of thin air. You've been together 4 years!
What exactly does he predict will change in 18 months?

I was hoping that it was ignorance on his part and that once you confronted him with the info he would act sharpish.

But at both your ages (considering you want DC), and at your stage in relationship (4years in), by this time, 18 months more waiting, is far too long.

I think what he's thinking is....I'll propose to her in 18 months (by which time you'll be 34.5 years old). She won't kick up a fuss before the 18 month mark, because she's too invested in me already, to rock the boat too much, sunken cost fallacy.

Once proposal happens at 34.5, the wedding planning etc, will take another year (35.5 years old). At 35+, successfully TCC, odds are not in your favour.

He's successfully run down your clock. At which point he'll say, 'oh well we tried'. But it's not good enough, because he didn't want to try with you, when the time was viable biologically, for you and him (as PP said, younger men usually create healthier more agile sperm). You'll then resent him. Relationship will fall apart.

If he really loved you OP, he would propose to you in the next month, after you had such a serious conversation with him.

If you meant that much to him, the fear of loosing you, would whip him into proposing quickly, like within one month maximum.

From the sounds of his responses, I would say he's playing you for a fool. Give him until the 29th February. If he hasn't proposed by then, you propose to him. Play him at his own game. Call his bluff. If he says anything other than yes, then you have an answer and can make the decision to split up if you want DC. If he says yes to getting married, book a quick registry office wedding asap, then TTC. In this way, you've given yourself a 2.5 year head start in TTC. Compared to going down the traditional route of waiting for him to propose and having a lavish wedding.

But be warned, even if he agrees to marriage. It's likely that you'll be doing all the work, wedding planning, childcare etc. He just seems the 'laid back' type.

I'm sorry but I think he's just kicking the can down the road again, but you know him and I don't
Give him time, but not too long

I think 18 months sounds reasonable actually. Presumably his thought process is that most people are engaged for a year or so, giving him a few months to propose? And trying for a child immediately after marriage sounds good too. Fingers crossed OP!

But do not TTC until you’re married!!!!!

What’s going to happen in the next 18 months when you’ve already been together as long as you have?!

If he wants to marry you then why does he want to wait another 18 months? It makes no sense.

In 18 months time OP you’ll be in the same position now but with a further 18 months of your biological clock having ticked on.

If he truly wants to marry you OP, he would.

This is just a delay tactic and you need to work out if you trust him enough to be true to his word, and also if you are prepared to wait that long to TTC.

Please, please, please don’t waste your fertile years and your chance to have a baby on a man with vague answers, who has shown no real signs of commitment and who also doesn’t actually seem to have taken on board anything you’ve said.

If he wanted to marry you, and cared about your valid concerns and wanted to have children with you then he certainly wouldn’t be putting it on hold for another 18 months minimum.

When my DH proposed we had been together about 2.5 years and we then got married in just under 5 months time. It was a bit of a whirlwind but we wanted to do it quickly because we were already 30 years old and we wanted to have a family.

We started trying for our first baby a month or so after the wedding and very luckily I got pregnant on our first month of trying, but when it came to baby number two, when I was 33 years old it took 11 months before I conceived.

You need to have a serious think about what you see in your future because I don’t think you’ll get what you want if you put your faith in this guy.

If he wants to be married, and knows it's very important to you to be married, then why 18 months?

It seems like such an arbitrary deadline that's far enough away be can dangle it like a carrot without actually having to change anything.

It's a hell of a risk you're taking waiting for this if having children is important to you.

He's comfortable.

There is no benefit to him to marry or have kids. He's not interested in either.

You are Miss Right Now. Not Mrs Right.

If he was serious, he'd have done something about it or at least be taking you seriously rather than phoning you off and making you question yourself over whether you are being fair in asking.

You aren't on the same page.

Consider what this means for your long term financial and emotional security. And remember asking questions about this is never wrong. It's essential to do so for your own wellbeing.