Should I be concerned about his reaction to marriage?

[togp]

I'm 33, partner is 34. We've been together 4 years and have previously discussed getting married and having children.

The last few weeks I've had a feeling of wanting to move along with these goals as we're both settled and not getting any younger.

I brought it up with him last week and he was really blase about it all. He answered with 'yeah we'll do all of that soon' and when I pressed for more details and more of a timeline he said 'in a couple of years' but didn't really give any specifics about what would be in a couple of years.

His lack of detail was niggling at me so I asked again yesterday and I got upset when he said I didn't trust him and that he doesn't know why I'm asking. I explained I wanted a bit of a plan as we haven't actually ever had a specific time frame and that we've been together a while so what are we waiting for. I tried to say this in a light hearted way, but he made me feel like I was being desperate. He then said 'well I don't have a ring, but I've always said we will get married' and left it at that.

My birthday was in December and I feel like I'm getting older so maybe that's why I feel so unsure about it all, but something about his answers has made me doubt we're on the same page, despite him always saying we are...

You can have this conversation without resorting to “emotional blackmail.”

OP and her partner have been together 4 years, he’s previously indicated he would be happy to marry and have children with her. It’s possible she would have ended the relationship at an earlier point if he had expressed he wasn’t keen on marriage or babies.

It’s acceptable for her to sit down for a serious talk with him, explain that at 34 her fertile years are dwindling and she really needs to be ttc within the next couple of years. Is this something that is likely?

Positive outcome could be - yep, ok, perhaps partner hadn’t really thought that through. Agree to ttc in next year or two, quick wedding beforehand or after baby is born.

Alternatively partner will need to be honest with OP and if he is not willing to have a family with her this is his time to tell her - she can then make a sensible choice about whether she stays in the relationship or it’s a dealbreaker for her.

@arethereanyleftatall

So true about the dating scene, when I was in my late twenties, there were guys in there 40s wanting to date me.

I did try dating one 40 year old, who was rich and alright/good looking. But nope....when a guy passes 35 and is not settled down, when he clearly could have been, and is trying to date significantly younger women, it reaks of dodgy character to me. So even being rich or good looking man at that age (40s, no kids, never had them) won't attract decent women, only gold diggers who don't care about the man's character, perhaps.

OP, honestly the guy isn't interested in having marriage and kids with you. He is future faking. Deep down you know it's true.

Have the chat about your biological clock, and whether he would be willing to get a quick registry office (two witness) marriage signing done in 6 months timeline.... (you can always have the big wedding celebration you want with family and friends afterwards in a year or two). Then straight after marriage TTC. Time is not on your side. If he doesn't agree with the above, walk away. If a 34/35 year old man, after a 4 year relationship won't commit to you...he never will. He either never wanted these things, but said he did to appease you. Or doesn't want these things with you.

As an older mother in her 30's, I can say that biologically leaving it till the 30's is not ideal. It's tough matching energy levels to a toddler or young child, in your 30's.

Slightly different perspective here from some other PPs: husband and I have been together for 12 years (I'm just shy of 41). We had our first DC when I was almost 36, married a year later, second dc just before my 38th birthday. At 4 years into our relationship I was very invested in getting married. A few years later (our salaries are more or less equal) I was more invested in a family and we were on the same page. The proposal came as a surprise when I was pregnant with my first. Point being, the proposal isn't always the most important thing, but being aligned on life goals is

I suppose @orion678 it depends whether or not you’re happy to start a family without being married? Which is very much personal preference, but marriage does bring some financial protection

Thank you so much for all these replies, I've been reading them and thinking through.

He always does what he needs to do (he works, we share jobs around the house, he organises what he needs to and doesn't forget important dates) but I feel there is never a sense of urgency with him. He says why worry, it will all happen, about anything. It's confusing for me to know if that is genuine or if it means he doesn't care very much. Either way he still needs to acknowledge how in this scenario I need clarity and there is urgency involved.

Anyway, this evening I sat down and explained the hard science behind my age and fertility. He looked genuinely shocked when I pulled the figures up about what happens past 35. I explained that I want to have these things in my life and they are important to me, and that it's only fair on both of us that we want the same things at the same time, and most importantly with each other.

Then I went for a walk and to the shops to give him some thinking space. Just got back so I'll see where the conversation goes.

Agreed. I was in a fortunate situation where we were equal earners and had similar assets. For me, it was really about making sure we were aligned on the long term goals of our relationship. I'd have left him if kids weren't part of his long term plans - marriage was a bonus, but not an essential part of the plan for me.

I was posting mostly to point that out - that lack of proposal doesn't always mean lack of commitment to a partner, kids, etc

Making a decision on babies is one thing however marriage is something completely unrelated.

It is not unreasonable to discuss timing of babies as time will of course eventually run out.

Marriage is just a hassle for a lot of blokes. I’ve never met a man enthusiastic about the whole wedding process. Maybe suggest something low key and he’ll be more keen.

Offer to get married with just the 2 of you.

I hope your chat tonight clarifies that you're on the same page and his actions will match his words

I agree. I had my first at 34 and then due to some losses my second when I was 39. He's ten now and I'm in menopause and absolutely knackered! My eldest is 14 and that's ok, but honestly having a baby in your late 30s sets you up for years of tiredness.

And you don't know what will happen I was going to have 2-3 kids 2 years apart. Then I had miscarriage after miscarriage and then secondary infertility.

You have no idea if you can conceive, or carry to term.

I hope your conversation is productive OP because you really are running out of time.

I tried to say this in a light hearted way, but he made me feel like I was being desperate.

This is a bit alarming. After 4 years together you’re concerned he would consider this desperate. It’s not a light hearted subject so good on you for being proactive.

One word of caution, I was in a similar boat and broke off a 10yr relationship when I was 34. I wish I ended it sooner because he was never going to commit. I’m very happily married at 39 (met OH at 37) & trying our best to conceive but time is tight 😬

He looked genuinely shocked when I pulled the figures up about what happens past 35

This is very odd. Why doesn't he know ?

Let us know what happens after your walk, OP 😍

Because he’s a man. I’m mid 30s and sex ed at school was boys in one room girls in another. It was an era of why would boys need to know about periods, why would girls need to know about condoms etc

It's not an ultimatum though is it to say I want this, do you, and if you don't then we don't have a future?

Agree

Also - doesn’t he understand the graphs of fertility vs age?

Men don't need to worry about a ticking biological clock. Unfortunately we do and mid 30s for some that is heavily ticking. Often the answer is well let's have kids and get married later. My advice is no ring, no babies. That suits a lot of men.

Sounds like he doesn't want to get married and is stringing it out and not facing up to it

He said (sincerely) that he understands why we need to fix dates for these things now. I asked him why he had been defensive and he said 'it takes the magic away when you ask'. I told him quite frankly after 4 years and having talked about these things previously there is no 'magic' for me, it's an expectation...modern times!

He then said he's never let me down before, and he's always done what he said he will. I agreed that is true, but also explained how his non-urgent attitude isn't fair and he can't just expect me to inherently believe him with no actions.

For those saying how doesn't he know about fertility...me and my friends have laughed over the years about the strange and obvious questions our partners have asked us about periods and babies etc. I genuinely think some of them don't know. As others have said sex ed was split into two groups, girls and boys with different content. I remember boys being REALLY immature about it in school. No idea if that's different now, or if teenagers have a more equal education?

I reminded him that women don't just get pregnant immediately, a pregnancy takes 9 months and there is a clock inside me.

I'm going to watch and listen very carefully over the next few weeks to see what happens. I hope he's genuinely been unaware and he realises what is at stake, and that he's been kicked into reality!

He said (sincerely) that he understands why we need to fix dates for these things now. I asked him why he had been defensive and he said 'it takes the magic away when you ask'. I told him quite frankly after 4 years and having talked about these things previously there is no 'magic' for me, it's an expectation...modern times!

If that’s how he feels, then HE should get on and do the asking!

Give him a few weeks OP, but remember you need actions not vague conversations

Fingers crossed, OP! Hoping for a good outcome for you.

I'm going to watch and listen very carefully over the next few weeks to see what happens. I hope he's genuinely been unaware and he realises what is at stake, and that he's been kicked into reality

I'd give him til 15 February

After that, if nothing has happened, I'd move on

Having been in a similar situation, I do understand how hard it is to contemplate “going back to the drawing board” and starting again, which is made even harder when you love your partner.

Just to put another side, my daughter is a similar age and was getting fed up waiting for a commitment from her BF (not going to go into details).
Turns out he was in the process of having a ring designed and made, and getting the time/location for proposing.

He's just given you a defensive response that's all about him, again. You're being fooled by the fact that it's a different response, but it still offers you a bullshit reason that covers his innocence and reveals his 'good intentions'.

The only acceptable answer, for me, would have been about you, and your feelings. Like 'Will you be happy if I rectify this issue by xyz date?' or 'What do you need me to do, going forward?' or 'What are your expectations of this situation?'

He didn't do that, did he. He said, 'I see your point, but I'm doing what I'm doing for xyz reasons, so, you can see it makes sense, can't you?'

If a human wants something they make it happen. Dh and I were clear on date 5 it was serious. On our first holiday together he made a quip about our future honeymoon. Proposed a year after our first date married 18 months later (we wanted sooner but everywhere nice booked). Behaviour is communication warm words easy to say. Not that you are even getting those.

@togp
"I'm going to watch and listen very carefully over the next few weeks to see what happens. I hope he's genuinely been unaware and he realises what is at stake, and that he's been kicked into reality!"

Don't make the mistake of letting it run on and on. My friend did and then reality kicked in and the ultimatum resulted in them splitting up. Was a nice end as she did meet someone else and they had kids quickly.