Why am I so damn unpopular?

[DeadFlowersInAVase]

Just that really.

I've always had problems with friendships. Not so much making them but keeping them.

I have a partner and 2 adult children but no friends. People just don't like me!

I'm not a people pleaser and I'm not an arsehole either. I'm reliable, not flakey, don't dominate conversations, remember things people have said and ask after them. I'm told I'm funny. I have good boundaries. Just a normal person really!

It really stands out to me because I also have a brother who I'm seeing over Christmas. All of his other days are booked up with seeing friends and doing stuff. And I don't understand it. He's grumpy and irascible (which has caused him to lose friends over the years) but he still has friends from school, university, work etc and has fallen out with a few (due to his behaviour) but they seem to have made up over the years and he still sees them. I don't understand it because he's selfish and self centred, dominates conversations and can be quite unpleasant at times. He's great company when he's not being like this but I don't think there's a single one of his friends who hasn't been on the end of one of his diatribes at some point.

My partner has friends he's known since school.

I know other people who have good strong friendships. People who have dubious political beliefs, who get too drunk and offend others.

People seem to like me well enough - colleagues, people I know socially, people through hobbies. But I don't actually have a single friend!

I mean, it can't just be that I have dead flowers in a vase. Can it..?

Yes, I'm exactly the same with multi-tasking, better one to one, caring and sensory overload!

I also think I'd be much happier working from home where I can control the amount of contact I have with people. Also working towards that.......

Agree with the ASD being over diagnosed. At the moment I'm not even sure that it would help me to be checked out. CPTSD presents in a similar fashion and I think that could also be a possible factor. Mind you, I've only ever shared those ponderings with DH and the one friend that knows me best. She did agree that there is an issue somewhere there. I've had a lot of difficulty with jobs and staying anywhere for any length of time.

Cats are good friends and never judge!

I can't quite get my head around the fact that you think you've lost the last friend you had from school - which by your age is over a decade ago - when it's just two weeks since you last spoke?!?

If we all thought friendships died if there had been 2 weeks without speaking, most of us wouldn't have 99% of the friends we have! You sounds extremely intense...

@EmmaEmerald, they’re not things I’d be primarily attracted to in a potential friend, no. The people I like having in my life are people who interest me, who tend to be people who work in the arts/creative fields, are strong characters, good talkers, have often moved around a lot, who’ve often made unusual life choices or done a 180 in mid-life and changed their lives completely. Though I also have friends who are none of these things.

Interesting
Maybe all apply to me except the 180, depending on your definition

also my hobbies are creative, work less so. But I don’t tend to bore people talking about work.

it’s sheer luck I think. I don’t think OP or anyone is at fault.

I agree it can be luck. I’ve never struggled to make friends, bar one period in my life where I lived in a small town, where, despite being the same person I’ve always been, and doing all the ‘right things’ in terms of volunteering, getting involved in local things, having a child at the local school, accepting all invitations and issuing them, I didn’t make any friends at all. The place just wasn’t a good match for me, socially — not anyone’s fault. But it was pretty lonely, though I made friends at work in the nearest city, and old friends visited. I moved countries in 2019, and immediately started to meet really interesting people despite Covid.

I think my luck just ran out. I had good friends for a very long time, they were amazing but now those days are gone (bonus points if you can name the band).

I do think social media has replaced real life interaction a lot.

You have a life partner. That's pretty awesome!
Your partner likes you.
How did you meet him?

😂 good one!
But perhaps we should go back to basics for a minute.

We all crave intimacy, to be seen and accepted for who we are, familiarity and safety when we’re out of our comfort zone. We crave company, and someone to do nothing with and still not feel lonely. There is no sanitised and politically correct friendship, a friend is someone who not only doesn’t flinch, but finds it funny. A bit like in the days after we gave birth when we were all discussing really gory and undignified stuff and found comfort and solace in a new friend who’s haemorrhoids were just as bad and who’s baby isn’t sleeping either. That kind of stuff.

We work too much. Our commutes are too long. Going out is expensive. Kids, families are demanding, because no one else but us picks up the slack. We come on here to vent and for advice, yes it’s all virtual and there are some prize twats on here, but how many times have we not stayed up when one of us was in A&E with a sick child, how many times have we not held virtual hands when our parents or one of us were dying? Or found a comforter that one of our kids had lost and now can’t sleep without? We give each other advice and share our experiences and open up to strangers on the web. That’s friendship. We know how to do it, we are good at it. There’s nothing wrong with any of us.

We do it with such ease behind a wall of anonymity because we’re scared we’re not good enough, interesting enough, because we’re too tired to meet up in person, the reasons are millions. But we are really good friends, methinks.

I promise you, people won’t think you’re weird if you reach out in real life.

@BuddhaAtSea I'm a bit lost by your comments - you've listed all the reasons people can't cope with friends, it seems to me.

But when you say this "I promise you, people won’t think you’re weird if you reach out in real life."

It's not about "weird". My experience, and I've done this a lot since lockdown, is people do not welcome this, for many reasons, all of which I respect.

Don’t write off the future entirely, though? I thought my friend luck had run out during that eight year hiatus, but then I moved countries and discovered I wasn’t in fact some kind of Typhoid Mary in my new environment.

@KnittedPond Well I certainly don't want to cling to false hope

Also, with no one to help in emergencies, health issues etc plans do need to be made, though I'm not 100% sure how those look right now.

There was a thread where a lady said she was delaying an operation because of no one to get her from hospital. I can relate to that.

I do absolutely see that. I find it more understandable than the numerous posters who say they’ve never had a friend, but have a husband they almost certainly didn’t acquire via an arranged marriage, and a marriage that has lasted long enough to produce several children. That I don’t get. If you have the social skills/attractive qualities etc to acquire a DP or DH, surely you have the same to make friends?

@KnittedPond Going in circles but I completely see why finding friends isn't easy - you could meet 100s of people and not gel with any of them, or they see friends as hard work and don't want them.

But I am puzzled when people with a DH say they have no one to help in an emergency!

You need time to devote to social opportunities, as much spontaneous as planned (because plans do fall through, and especially at Christmas or similar). Are you able to lose yourself in the flow (of a nice night out, for example?), or are you very aware that you have to be back at a certain time, or doing something else?

People who seem most successful at maintaining friend circles and social layers now seem to be very good at navigating, and cultivating, social media contact on several channels. This is something I know I don't aspire to, or enjoy.

It's as if you need to be able to care enough to a point that is in the middle of a venn diagram - not too needy, able to be fine about people flaking (or not), enough to motivate you to find them good company over several months/years, compatible in the sense of social media use and style, etc.

I don’t use social media at all (Mn is the closest I come to that), and it’s never inhibited my friendships. I have a couple of WhatsApp groups, but they’re either neighbours about bin night or roadworks, or family groups. Most of my friends who use Twitter/X, Fb or Instagram, do so to follow political stuff, create a professional profile, sell art, or keep up with what’s on in arts/music events.

Then again, someone who continually posted photos of their life online, complete with nonsense about #blessed, would be a fairly clear signal they weren’t my cup of tea.

@Ormally
Are you addressing any particular poster/s?

I know the app has a reply function that seems to not do anything so sometimes people end up chatting at cross purposes.

I used to have a hilarious group of friends through Twitter but it fell apart in the usual ways, and over lockdown, quelle surprise.

Not in particular - mainly keeping in mind the first post of the OP and other themes that then followed. The point was about having social opportunities but backed up/ initiated through the ways that other groups make their plans and, occasionally, later change them. Especially true for groups that might not be able to cross paths often in person. I didn't have the question of the #blessed style or online badges of social conformity as a key indicator in mind.

I had an experience which meant I had to make new friends as an adult at 24. Luckily where I worked were 2 women colleagues who were friends outside work and they invited me out with them to the local pub a few times which then progressed out to clubbing and we became part of a larger group of friends. One of these women was quiet in work but different when we were out.

Then when I was 34 or so I’d had a bad breakup with a boyfriend (brief relationship) who was also a platonic male friend for 7 years. I looked on gumtree and found a sort of suppprt group and friendship group run by a woman whom I’m not now in contact with but we had/have an offshoot group of 4 of us who socialise on a fairly regular basis.

I’ve learned though that for some people I meet or invite out, one might say yes and it goes well. One might say no, too busy, you have to (or I find this) keep up the invites and keep people you like and enjoy their company on your radar. I was out last week with a close friend (see from group above), a neighbour who used to live in my street but moved nearby and a neighbour who lives near my mum and is mid 60s but good fun. We all had a great time at a wine bar where 2 of the woman hadn’t been but wanted to try.

I could've written this! Even down to the grumpy dick of a brother who mystifyingly has loads of friends. The only difference would be that I have no partner and only one child who isn't an adult.
Miserable as sin. I find myself staring at groups of women sharing a bottle of wine or a having coffee and laughing together, like a sad, left out toddler. I've got my faults of course but like you, I make a concerted effort with people I meet, to be responsive, non-dominant in conversations and listen as much as I can. I also make sure I'm not miserable all the time (even though I very much am) and stay lighthearted as much as possible.
Nothing.
I'm only in this position because I chose the wrong friends. One I was best friends with for over 20 years whom changed and became a very unsavoury person. Perhaps it's me? That I'm so frightened of being hurt by a friend again that I'm subconsciously thwarting a potential friendship?
Could that be the case with you, OP?

perhaps you are seen as capable and not really in need of friends

This is insightful. Hmmm interesting hypothesis 🤔

But why would being incapable, or appearing to be, mean you were more likely to attract potential friends?

I don't get this either

I would love to attract sone rescuers. Clearly I am doing everything wrong!

Im wondering if your brothers male friends dont mind how he is as ive worked with blokes loads and they seem to blow up over something then its forgotten.
Now i work with predominantly women and it is very cliquey and gossipy.
I prefer to discuss work,pets gardening fashion and bits not slag off people to make myself look better.
So being loud,fuĺl of energy and into fitness my colleagues dont get me.
Im supposed to moan about work do little so they cannot relate.
I think i have ADHD too.I have no real friends.
Sometimes i mind then i remember i do like space and my own company.

Well personally, I think that as being a decent person hasn't worked out for you, you should try being an arsehole for a while.

Take some time deciding which type of arsehole appeals to you- maybe watch some shows and decide which behaviours are amusing enough without being repugnant to you and then take those on. What have you got to lose ???

i know a lot of females with ASD. All very different people, some great at building friendships, others who find it complex. I’ve noticed some talk about themselves extensively and show little interest in other peoples experiences and lives. They ask too few questions of others. Showing vulnerability can be done in many passing situations, you don’t need to be having a deep conversation to get the ball rolling.