He does not work. What hard questions should I ask?

[lovelivesherenow]

I met a lovely man who does not work anymore.
He saved up and got out of the 9-5 life decades before one would.
I'm dating for marriage ultimately. Any ideas of the kind of questions to ask or things to look out for to help me work out whether he'd be right for the long haul?

The cynic in me thinks that he's your typical online dating bloke on his 50's who feels "entitled" to a younger woman, so is just telling her what she wants to hear in order to get her.

And will string her along for a bit until she starts to push for it - then show his true colours.

When really he just wants an easy life & an easy lay with a younger woman.

Huge red flags.

As a 50+ woman I'd avoid this one like the plague.

I wouldn't try for kids with a man 50+ regardless of whether or not he wants them, if I were you.

I was a 'surprise' baby (mum much younger than dad) later in my dad's life. So at 27, my dad is really quite old. My mum turned 60 this year and still has her mum around - I know I likely won't even get to 40 with my dad. It is an absolutely horrifying thought.

But all of the above is likely redundant, as surely if he wanted kids he would have had them by now. I can't see how someone who worked mega hard for years so that he could retire early and have an easy life would then volunteer for screaming baby, sleepless nights etc.

OP I would honestly move on

I'm actually really stunned that people see this as a downside to a man.

This would be my ideal partner! (Not at age 50 though!)

Someone who could be 100% focussed on you/ take care of the house/always be available for school runs & DCs sick days, no work stress, healthy active lifestyle. It's a perfect life!

I think some men like George Clooney and Hugh Grant realise belatedly that children are worth doing after all. But in their case if they don’t like fatherhood they can pay for nannies. They’re still working notwithstanding their great fortunes.

My hunch is that I have similar or more in asset and savings than this gentleman does.

What makes you think that?

I see your imagination is running away with you as it does with many women.

Not working doesn’t mean he’s interested in childcare or domestic work. And by 50 people are quite stuck in their ways and less inclined to compromise.

I’d be wary and try and found out the real facts about his money, then you can make a decision to carry on with dating him.

I’ve found that with men this age without kids there have been some who’ve worked very hard (bankers) and therefore lifestyle isn’t that easy with kids (but lots do marry and have kids). Or that sometimes their spending is way down on the list compared to mine.

One banker I knew (only went on a few dates with him) who was mid 40s, had no kids, had had previous relationships but not worked out, he wanted kids I think, but he wanted to retire at 50 and travel/not work. I think being a banker he’d made wise investments and had a good pension but obvs if he had kids he might’ve worked longer or did what another banker friend of mine did at a similar age who had a baby with a new girlfriend then, do consultancy/self employed work after leaving the banking world. The new girlfriend had a young child already though.

I would agree with pp, lots of men over 50 are stuck in their ways and either want/like the idea of kids or the reality means it’s not an option. I know a couple of men like this, married late in 40s to much younger women who probably want children and compromises have to be made.

I wouldn't see FIRE (if that's what he has done) as intrinsically negative, there are lots of positive traits associated with it too. It can mean being miserly but it can also reflect midnful spending and valuing experience over consumerism. The self-knowledge and delayed gratificaiton required to make it work can also be positive. Also there are various different versions and income levels people aim for (look at FATfire for example!). Like anything there can be people who are extreme but it can also be healthy. Look at https://www.reddit.com/r/FIREUK/ to get an idea of how people involved think.

There is ZERO chance a person who has lived 50 years happily enjoying his life, will make a good father. Even if he 'wants' kids now, he will, without any shadow of a doubt, discover pretty damn quick in to changing a nappy at 3am, that this isn't what he wanted after all. He may, and I guess this would be the best you can hope for, do the good bits. But given up the single life he's built? Not. A.chance.

Men write 'I want kids' or 'I want a relationship' on their profiles as they believe it increases their numbers.

I’ve known men who are rich who have kids late and either pay for childcare, make the wife do childcare or farm their DC off to boarding school. This doesn’t absolve them of all parental responsibilities though! These men are either retired or have their own businesses but enough downtime to take it easy.

Does he want what you want in the long run and are his morals aligned with yours? Does he respect women and treat them as equals? How he spends his day is less significant than those things.

You should ask yourself why do you want children with a retiree?

Even when I was a sahm I was getting up early and going to bed late because I’m an author. Dh works ft but also does websites and consultancy for people so works late at night and weekends too. We are both saying nobody else would take the kind of hours we do. So just op if he is done done with all aspects of work and you’re very much not, maybe just consider there’s a chance you’d find it difficult to be on the same page. Although if he’s done with work but still has stuff going on I’d think that’s ok! Best of luck op!

I was very amused to see Hugh Grant being his usual grumpy self about why he did the Willy Wonka movie, which he apparently did not enjoy doing. " I have lots of children and need the money".

I think he has five now!

If he's FIRE he's not going to risk his assets, age 50, by marrying you.

What I'm more curious about is why you're willing to read 9 pages of comments, and solicit even more comments, when you've been on two dates with the man?

Even if your timeline feels compressed because you want to give birth age 41, you are putting pressure on what is not even a relationship to determine if this stranger wants to marry you, father your baby, and be a good partner based on strangers' speculation about his lifestyle.

Have a baby on your own, or chill out and explore your connection to this man or the next one who comes along.

But he always used to say when interviewed pre children that he played golf with his father and did what he wanted work wise as he had no children and so had all the money he needed to see him out.

Having seen 1 of his families in the BA lounge he must have a large staffing bill for multiple nannies.

Totally agree @retinolalcohol . Sorry but I think 50+ is way too old to become a parent for many reasons: energy, risk to foetus (sperm quality declines with age), risk of parental death or incapacity before child reaches adulthood...

I think the question should be, if you already have assets why would you risk marriage?

Would this be your first marriage or have you been married before?

The reason I ask is, if you've been married before then you're going in with your eyes open. If not, you're taking a huge risk in your financial security by speed dating through online platforms to marriage!

It sounds like you've started on your solo plan by having your eggs frozen. I'd stick with that tbh.

This as well.

I have ADHD. I have managed to succeed in my education and career despite it, but when I was young things were very very hard for me. It has taken me years to find a balance.

We can't know that my ADHD is a direct result of advanced paternal age, but there have been studies linking it. ADHD is also one of the least 'severe' of the syndromes/diseases of increased risk so I got off lightly

At this stage he will say anything you want to hear potentially

men will say all sorts of crap for a shag. Slow down and stop rushing everything

you have you plans in place so just enjoy getting to know him as a complete aside from the kids thing

its EXTREMELY unlikely that he’ll want kids. So take this relationship at face value

I dated online for a while and learnt a lot along the way

where I got to was not to even consider anything a “relationship” even until it had moved into the 6m stage. No promises on either side, no expectations etc.

once it got to 6m I’d have a conversation about how things were going kind of, but still it needed to get past a year for me to consider it as serious.

that was the approach I took with my lovely oh and it worked perfectly! Just celebrated 7 years together

@lovelivesherenow

HNRWT, just Op's posts. NC for this as I could answer this if had time, as I have been on both sides of this.

HIM,
first questions first: is he kind and lovely and you feel there is potential? It's important to focus on a person first (ANY person).

Then, tread carefully if you feel there is potential. If no potential, use your curiosity and ask them as many questions as you like, for your amusement.

If there is potential- I agree with the bloke who warned you- using his example.

For all people, it's easy and straightforward to ask how they live, renting or owning (I was in my 40s and owned 3 homes by then so it was crucial the person was a home owner (protecting myself and to see how we could live as a family with kids- see below) or understanding their attitude to homeownership ( have met 1 person adamant renting is the best way). I knew that person wasn't suitable because of his ideology as well.

If they didn't own a home, I needed them to be planning to, or being able to buy with me- people are normally open about their home environments and plans.

Of course, I was ruthless as didn't meet anyone who didn't want a family so I asked that before I met, as I found it hard to ask after meeting them (as it sounded like: can I have your babies already after the first date?)

See, if you followed carefully, you only need 3 things: Do you like them/potential; their living situation and if they want a family.

Because it is a he- you are lucky as no BLOKE I have ever met wanted a family (have kids) over the age of 40 didn't have an idea how to support his kids/family. So asking about wanting a family, is a dead give away. Also, at 50, most blokes know they don't want children so the sooner you asked, the better,

If you succeed at 3; try the 4th: How he spends his day ( although I would rather work that out from communications and what he tells me he does- you have time, no rush.) This will explain the lifestyle someone explained above. I would listen carefully to how he talks about money re hobbies- like if he fumes at a PT refusing to refund his £30, where he is clearly at fault, ad infinitum or some ridiculous scenarios involving money- it shows he is struggling.

Lifestyle is more to see if you are compatible. I know I mentioned money, but read my comments with an open heart/ not money. Like, I was clear I did not want someone who I could see once every 3 weeks or spent his weekends studying to advance himself after teh age of 50. Good luck to them, but I wanted a partner, or marry me if you want me to put my dating on hold for crumbs.

Now, look at what you want:
I also didn't want a man who was employed or beholden to an employer after the age of 50. Yes, my preference. The idea I would be sick and baby is sick and husband can't reschedule his work day to look after us/ take us to hospital, doesn't sound like living. If you were employed, and were flexible to play your tennis on Wednedays unless something big came up, or can even schedule a date mid afternoon etc- was attractive to me. I was in my 40s remember, so have paid my dues, and was clear of a life I wanted. I also didn't want a forever stressed husband no matter if he was making millions. I wanted a calm existence.

So, when I met someone (own boss or as good as semi-retired) who fit most of that, I was married within 3 months.

If you still need to find out all the ridiculous things mentioned in some posts- you will only embarrass yourself and his antennae will be sharper than your imagination as he is used to his friends discussing his attractive lifestyle with him.

NOW ME

The bloke above, was gold-dust. At the outset- he rang me the day we matched and we agreed to meet, he said his late wife did not work. To me that stood him out as a gentleman who can sustain himself and/or any family he chooses. I had also just semi-retired (although hadn't told him obv) and was fed up with random questions of matches asking 'how is the work day going'- to which I replied, not too busy etc or busy if I was out having a walk during hours. Then, somebody who had observed me and my lifestyle ( I am not flashy but they clearly put one and one together), asked me out on a date SUDDENLY- when something clocked- and were too stupid to spend half the date quizzing me on work etc etc which to me showed we had different lifestyles, if they don't think most people have worked flat out in their 20s and 30as and were living comfortably without a need to work 9-21;00. I rarely finished at 5 pm and I saw them strolling home day in and out around 5:30 and still expect to live like me. It requires hard work and scarifies, so the idea of a 'date' quizzing me was sooo of putting. Although, I answered them in a good way, but left feeling pity for them.

Anyway, I was desperate to meet someone I liked as I saw all the sharks circling around me, for wrong reasons.

PS: A well meaning friend- aware of my situation- warned me to get financial statements/ private investigators etc etc of my husband before we married. I dismissed it as it was not necessary- he owned his house outright and had a business. I did agree with my friend's suggestion to sign a prenup ( which we did).

However, getting financial statements were not necessary for me ( i probably would have done if he was living abroad etc etc). However, I am glad I didn't do financial digging as within 6 months, his business started to go down caused by an unexpected 3rd party/event. So in that case, it would have not helped me ether / if I waited before we married, I would have missed out on someone I like for reasons that would happen to anyone- luckily I was not marrying him for his money/ neither was he, for mine. So he came out of retirement and built it up again after 2 years of hard work- again.

Everything is fine now and still flexible with his time and certainly all weekends although not letting someone else to run it as he made that mistake.

So, therefore. focus on the person (not his money), decide what you want lifestyle wise ( not a husband studying every weekend for example/ just hobbies as might be in his case)- mine does golf most Saturdays, but can switch or cancel if we want the weekend for us- I encouraged him to go back when he stopped as I felt it gave him a good balance- his thinking was, he was missing out on being at home. Golf showed (before we met) he had a work/life balance and could relax. Have you guys seen many constantly stressed out people in London? I didn't want that as I focused on me first before looking for a bloke to complete me and it worked very well for me.

Good luck and take it easy/slow. I work ( although we spend first year of married just travelling), work in the same fashion just as I did before I met him- I have always been self-employed. No pressure to be chained at a desk mon to fri just to prove to some mappers that ' I work'; when I am self-sufficient and working differently. I was also clear I didn't want to support anyone I had just met. I made provision to support any babies of mine though including any maternity I needed. So he is looking at you in the same way you are looking at him.

I am out.

@lifestylee that was an interesting read but I wonder if you had children and how that worked out.

I am out does this mean the poster is not coming back?

Yeah - there’s still the issue of getting to know him and establishing a relationship even if he is a good fit. If he’s not the moment may well have passed.

@lovelivesherenow

DH and I retired in our 50s with secure pensions & investments. We were both career (US) govt workers. So it can be done without financial machinations or scraping and scrimping.

I think I'd be concerned that, if not a future faker, he's a future dreamer. That he has no real idea of what marriage and children really means in 'practical terms'. And at 50 I wonder how adaptable he is to the major stressors that come with them. But the real problem with future dreamers is that so often they want to just dream. So they promise but never actually deliver.

Does he live on his own? Does he own his own home (mortgaged or paid off) or does he prefer to rent because then the landlord has to do all repairs. My never married brother never wanted to buy for that reason plus the ease of relocating if he felt like a change of scene.

What is his relationship like with his parents? Is he their 'go to guy' and a large part of their social life? I mean like Sunday dinners, constant errands/DIY. Do they holiday together? Have you seen him interact with children or talk about nieces and nephews/friends' children? Does he have friends and what do they do together. You don't want a social butterfly, but you also don't want a hermit. And if he has 'hobbies' watch and see how much time he devotes and whether or not he's 'flexible' with them. Or is he such a devotee that you'll be a 'hobby widow'.

I do think it's too soon to ask specific questions about how his finances 'work'. To me that comes at the point of 'long term commitment' (when you decide on moving in or marriage) I'd run a mile if a new person in my life started asking me questions. So, I'd suggest a 'watch, listen and learn'. Visit his home if you get the chance and see how it's decorated, if he has quality furnishings and nice appliances and is his home nicely kept. Suggest a few outings that cost money and see if he readily agrees and happily pays his own way. Does he enjoy the 'food experience' of dining out or does he order a cup of soup and complain about the prices? What car does he drive? Does he holiday in a nice fashion? These things can tell you not only if he has financial means, but whether or not he uses those means to live comfortably, rather than sitting on his gold like Ebenezer Scrooge. Obvs these are 'clues' not 'answers', but these things may lead to 'conversations'. But even if he is financially secure, you don't want someone who has moths flying out when they open their purse. And that's NOT because you want them to spend their money on YOU. It's to find out if they are pinchpennies who will not share the financial responsibilities that come along with children and a home.

So, wait, watch, and learn. I realize you don't have years of 'biological time' but it will be worth a few months to scope him out.