He does not work. What hard questions should I ask?

[lovelivesherenow]

I met a lovely man who does not work anymore.
He saved up and got out of the 9-5 life decades before one would.
I'm dating for marriage ultimately. Any ideas of the kind of questions to ask or things to look out for to help me work out whether he'd be right for the long haul?

I do think he’s too old to start a family.

It’s quite possible he’s the golddigger.

I’d find it hard to respect someone who’d given up at 50. If Hilary Mantel and done so we wouldn’t have had Wolf Hall.

I regard first dates as friendly interviews. You can’t ask him directly about finances but you ask with a raised eyebrow how his apparent plan to have kids would work with no salary.

I don’t work for reasons that I won’t go into. When I did, I sat in an office working on boring spreadsheets and forms.

I love how some people think that this made me relevant/current and gave me lots of interesting things to talk about🤣. I see that job as a complete waste of five years of my life.

Some people have interesting jobs?

A man who gets into a relationship at 50 and has a couple of kids within 3 years will be over 60 while the children are still in primary school and 71 by the time the younger kid turns 18 (if he even lives that long).
I have a sibling who was 43 when they had their child - they are occasionally mistaken as being the grandparent of that child.
If you want kids, you'd be safer (in terms of fertility, genetics and health) to find someone nearer your own age.

Interesting, the friend who packed it in at 50 tells people she's still working because...judgement.

@lovelivesherenow
We've ended up in a weird, unplanned version of your (possible!) future situation. My husband doesn't work because of ill-health, and hasn't since he was in his early thirties. I do work, but not in a hugely well-paid field (my salary is about average for the UK). We have two kids and are in our 40s. We don't come from moneyed backgrounds.

I don't think your love interest's claim to be financially independent is necessarily dubious - it's entirely conceivable that he could have been mortgage-free at 45 precisely because he is older and the economy was very different a decade or more ago. OH and I have paid off mortgages early twice (and continue to be debt free) - it was just easier then. Equally, this guy is old enough to have gone to uni with no tuition fees, so he may not have had any debt from that. Back then you could get significant returns on savings accounts, so if he had a windfall/inheritance in his twenties, even with cautious investment he could have made it grow.

There's been talk of what this lifestyle looks like. Before kids we were pretty frugal. We lived in a modest house that didn't need much done to it, didn't run a car, took few holidays (because of DH's health, not because we are tight!) and just generally aren't all that spendy. We didn't go all out on our wedding or honeymoon, have never fitted a new bathroom or kitchen if the old would function, etc. If you don't work, you have the free time to chase good deals on purchases. And we've not had to pay for childcare because DH does it now they're in school, and I worked P/T when they were small and we shared it. I wouldn't say we have nothing we spend on, but we keep an eye on it.

I would be a bit concerned, as with everyone else, that though he says he wants kids he might not have faced up to the reality of what it would be like. But perhaps he has. If he's an involved uncle, say... well, he still won't know exactly what it's like, but then many of us don't really get it till we are holding the baby! I know at least a couple of men who have embraced fatherhood in their 50s; though I don't think I'd choose that, it's clearly not universal that older men don't want to.

But I think you do just have to go with this a little longer and see where it goes. You have bought yourself some time with the frozen eggs at least.

Tbh OP it sounds as though, even if he's fine for money, you would judge someone for not working at 50 - which won't add up to a great relationship.

I think the financial independence / not working for a living thing is a red herring.

The question is, is a man of 50 who has never had children the right candidate to have children with?

DH wanted to retire by 54 and he could have afforded to, except for some unforeseen circumstances that came along in the pandemic.

Now we have pushed it to 58. I won't be thinking any less of him as he hates his job and he is no Hilary Mantel! I plan to work as long as I can because I am that sort of person who doesnt do well without at least part time work.
.

Who paid for the coffee?

He sounds perfect for me (assuming he's financially solvent and owns his own home and isn't looking for someone else to fund him). But I'm not looking to marry or have kids. In your shoes, I'd be wary. If he's achieved financial independence through hard work and sacrifice, then he might be reluctant to take on a wife and child(ren).

Babies/children need caring for and he would be facing the following options:-

• he cares for the babies/children while you work (this is the cheapest option but would tie him down - would he be happy to settle for this when he has opted for a life of leisure and indulging in his hobbies?)

• you give up work and care for the children - but he would have to fund all of you

• you work and the cost of childcare is halved - but this would impact him financially

And of course, we all know that the cost of children doesn't disappear when they get past the childcare stage. There's the cost of clothes, shoes, Christmas and birthday presents, hobbies and interests, university costs, driving lessons, help with the cost of a wedding or house deposit etc.

Aside from the financial aspect, he may not actually want babies or children. He may just want a partner or (ultimately) a wife.

I guess the only way to know for sure is to ask him. But two dates in might be a little soon - you might scare him off. On the other hand, you can't afford to wait too long to find out.

I'd also be doing my best to suss him out and ascertain that he's genuinely solvent and not just spinning you a tale about his early retirement.

He’s too old. I say that as someone who had their DC older (we were 41 and 46), but post 50 is too old to start.

You've both said you want marriage and DC, but I wonder if he has any idea of the reality of being an older parent?
You can't ask direct questions.its a date not an interview, and cynically I know, but I'd wonder if he was lying!
If he has enough money to retire, is he going to risk marrying?
For now though, It's such early days, I'd let things unfold gradually and decide if you're actually compatible

Well good for them! But theres a great many more women who would prefer not to be raising children with a man 20/30 years older than his 'prime'. Its not in the least bit 'small minded' to acknowledge the impact of age on a man. On his health, his energy, his motivation. Not to mention his attention and resources being divided between his new family and his old one if he already has adult children. I'd imagine it would be very few women's first choice of co parent. Although obviously if there is wealth it goes some way to offset the disadvantages for some.

Some have mentioned being wary of men practicing the FIRE lifestyle.
What is life like with FIRE men in real life? Does anyone have experiences to share?
I believe he is possibly living this lifestyle or at least a self-centred one.

OP, if I wanted babies and was 40 I would be heading to a sperm bank asap and picking good quality sperm (young man), not loosing my time on endless OLD dates trying to figure out compatibility a 50 yr old man, possibilities of getting an unhealthy child if you do get pregnant are very high. Your bio click is ticking you can leave the finding a partner bit for after the baby.

I don't think at 50 he would like more children.. having a newborn is hard but having a newborn in your 50's is even harder...

Once you have seen his house and car (which will happen naturally in time) you will be able to make an assessment.

I don’t think you can ask about finances after 2 dates.

I would not be worried about FIRE per se. It's more that FIRE, I would think, has "comorbidities" with things that might be hard to live with:

• Here is someone attracted to niche thinking. Regardless of whether FIRE is "right", it takes a particulier type of person to do what most people aren't. Is he only "niche" on FIRE, or will he also have niche views on other stuff?
• The online community of FIRE has a negative "anti" world view. Against the sheeple, against authority, against losers, against government... No, not all of them, obviously, but does he think those are vaguely unpleasant people having the right idea about finances? Or are they Right and everyone else is Wrong?
• How willing is he to spend money now and how easily did he get to the money? Like, as a single man with a decent wage FIRE would not be particularly hard to achieve, and therefore not worrying. Or was he the type to go absolutely extreme and save 50% of what's only an average wage?
• Of all the niche things to put your energy into, why money? Why did he become FIRE instead of, say, a nutrition zealot?

So, basically, is he a cynical redditer who likes to be a fanatic, or just a sensible person who happened to be able to save a lot?

For what it's worth, we did lots of things that would be very "FIRE"-minded and as a result have a lot of passive income these days, though we also have several kids and work. So I am not against the ideas as such, and I don't think it needs to be a red flag at all. Having money is a good thing in a partner. But those are the "comorbidities" I would be looking out for

Fair point. Fathers in their 50s are linked to higher incidence of birth defects, childhood cancer, autism, schizophrenia & bipolar disorders.

You’d have a better chance of a healthy baby with a younger man.

I dont know about FIRE. I can tell you many ( most?) men over 50 get very grumpy. Even more so when dealing with babies. You only have to look at the numerous MN threads on this.

@WonderingAboutThus wow

I'm on a FIRE forum that's male dominated and I have never heard of any of this!! is this real or a weird media stereotype, the anti world bit I mean?

I'd be asking how he's reached the age of 50 without having had any kids. Does he actually not want them, or has he not had any long term relationships?

Ifnyoundidnhave kids with him would he be the default SAHP? How would you feel if you then split up and ended up seeing your child every other weekend?