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Original poster

Why do we just accept the gap in gender equality when separating?

106 replies

overripemelon · 10/12/2023 18:46

Ex that barely sees his children. Can’t force him to. He manages a few weeks a year, on his terms when it suits him. Takes on zero of the mental load or upbringing responsibilities.

Why is it still seen as acceptable by society for a male to behave this way but if I walked out people would be absolutely aghast? Men are excused just for being a man.

How is it in 2023 this massive gap still exists? Do you think it will ever improve?

OP posts:
Alicesmagicmushroom · 10/12/2023 18:52

Because patriarchy. I agree, disgraceful.

harerunner · 10/12/2023 19:53

Completely agree, it's still seen as acceptable and normal!

roarrfeckingroar · 10/12/2023 19:54

Because as a female sex we still experience oppression and disadvantage. It's just very uncool to recognise it - or to centre feminism on actual problems women experience

OurfriendsintheNE · 10/12/2023 20:00

I don’t think most people see it as acceptable but sadly it is normal.

PaintedEgg · 10/12/2023 20:04

i think its because there is literally no alternative - you cannot force someone to be a good parent if they are just shit human being and don't care for their kids or forging any resemblance of relationship with them, best one can do is to pick up the slack and try our best to raise the children so they don't grow up to be equally neglectful

Foxblue · 10/12/2023 20:05

Because men and women alike have very low standards for fathers, and there's plenty of women out there who are willing to sleep with and have more children with dad's who contribute the bare minimum that the government tells them to contribute, while having them MAYBE one night a week and every other weekend, and men get called a 'great dad who really loves his kids' by men AND women for doing the bare minimum.
I do blame men. Its their fault they are shit. But honestly, I blame women too. I'm so sick of women calling men great dads cos they brush their daughters hair or play football with their son and talk about how much they love their kids.

Peablockfeathers · 10/12/2023 20:08

I agree that society views both as different, as it does with so many things related to parenting, but you can't force anyone to be an active, involved or even a bare minimum parent- whether its fair or not is irrelevant really. There are some that swing in favour of mothers though, mainly in the legal process of separation.

AuntMarch · 10/12/2023 20:21

I wouldn't say it is accepted, it happens but I don't know anybody who doesn't think it's shitty.

But what's the alternative? Force the child to spend more time with a parent that doesn't give a shit?

AmyandPhilipfan · 10/12/2023 22:10

Because, though a slightly controversial opinion, I think that women in general are maternal and more nurturing and want to be there for the day to day lives of their children. And men, in general, are not as bothered. Even in loving marriages.

For example, my daughter this year is in a Christmas play. I have made sure I have booked tickets for both of her performances. I eagerly checked the costume list to see what she would need. I made note of the dress rehearsal times. I have liaised with the other family we do lift shares with over what days we can offer lifts and what days we'll need them. My husband loves his daughter. He'd lay down his life for her. But he is totally unbothered about seeing her in this play. He's going to one of the performances, because I've bought him a ticket. But he couldn't care less about it really. And similarly he's not bothered if she does or doesn't go to parties she's invited to, if she goes to extracurricular activities, if she's had a bath recently, if she's got gloves with her on a cold day etc. That kind of thing just does not bother him. And I don't think it bothers a lot of men actually. But mums, usually, do take care of those little details, and are bothered about them, so when a mum removes herself completely from a child's life it's more shocking. And it's more shocking to other mothers because we can't imagine doing that.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 10/12/2023 22:31

I’d still rather have the kids !
they lose out
they really do
life turns out lonely for these guys eventually

I’ve got one ex not fighting to see his kids
and my kids dad went to his homeland when we split
and sooooo many more I see and know of

even celebrities
look at Brad Pitt as a prime example

Thisisworsethananticpated · 10/12/2023 22:33

AmyandPhilipfan
agree

JemimaFuddle · 10/12/2023 22:41

I do blame men. Its their fault they are shit. But honestly, I blame women too.

And herein lies the problem. Ultimately we hold women responsible and blame them for everything. So of course its easier for men to do the bare minimum because people like this poster will find a way to shift the responsibility for this on to women.

Didimum · 10/12/2023 22:53

A few years ago a friend of my sisters discovered her husband was cheating. He offered to leave etc. The woman announced that no, she would be leaving instead, packed a bag, and said she would be back in a week or two to visit the kids (they were around 8 and 10, I think). He was absolutely horrified. She would come to visit the kids for an hour or so every weekend and gradually upped the time to have them where she was staying for the day/overnight etc. They are now, after many months later, up to 50/50.

She wanted to dispel any notion that her husband could just go and live as he pleased, which he obviously assumed (and hoped) he would be able to do. The other woman left him.

Now I do obviously think of the poor children in that story, and most people I tell also comment that she did wrong by her children. But I also can’t help thinking good on her if I’m honest.

Owlsoutsidethewindow · 10/12/2023 23:09

I'd say for every man that does this when separating, there are an equal amount of men that want to spend as much time with their children as possible but the children are used as weapons by the mothers. I know 4 people that have separated from husbands or partners this year, in 3 out of 4 circumstances the wife has instigated separation, and in 4 of 4 circumstances they have blocked access to the child for no reason other than spite.

Separation can be very difficult for both sexes.

WaddyDarbucks · 10/12/2023 23:32

Surely the gap in gender equality when separating is the fact women nearly always get custody.

FrippEnos · 10/12/2023 23:40

How many women do you know that would leave the children with the father?

On MN we see many times that the mother does not want the Father to have 50/50 or even 60/40. In some cases we have seen threads where the Mother wants to stop the Father from seeing the children at all.

IMO this just feeds in to the narrative that Fathers are useless and shouldn't be trusted.
Its not the whole of the problem but it is part of it.

kissnm · 10/12/2023 23:55

It’s not difficult to understand how this happens, women are typically looked at as being caregivers and it wasn’t that long ago, that a woman’s main responsibility was raising children & being a housewife as opposed to anything else. Look at the amount of SAHM whilst the father remains at work. in comparison househusbands or stay at home fathers are not as common.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 11/12/2023 08:07

Didimum

good for her i say

Mummymummy89 · 11/12/2023 08:13

It's common but I don't know many people who approve of dads who do this.

My dad did this and basically lost all his friends who were joint friends of the couple.

When a man does this, as far as I've observed, he is rightfully shunned by everyone who knew him as part of that family. He ends up having to rebuild a new life, partly built on a bit of a lie (eg not telling people he has kids at all, or saying that his ex has estranged the kids, etc).

Losers. Don't worry, everyone who knows the full story thinks your ex is a loser

Crunchingleaf · 11/12/2023 08:51

The dynamic starts way before separation. Who is at the school gate doing drop offs and pick ups. Who is doing most of the driving the kids here there and everywhere. It’s still mostly women who are the primary caregiver.
I have a husband who actually does step up and parent without needing me to hold his hand. I honestly feel lucky because I know there are still far too many women expected to be the traditional wife and mother plus work full time on top of that. My eldest DC father is completely useless. Left everything to me as he was tired from work or some other BS excuse. EOW was more then fair in that situation as he had shown himself to be lazy and incompetent and too selfish for it to be a good idea for him to have DC more then this. However, DC was always told he could increase contact. DC reduced it even further.

Honestly, from day one men need to be active involved parents and stop with BS excuses. Instead we have them going on about how spiteful and nasty ex is and how she is weaponising contact with kids. This definitely does happen, however no one knows the true story. No man ever admits to other people that he was an abuser instead he tells people she is spiteful and bitter etc. As a society we so easily believe the worst in women.
Yes there are times when the woman actually is a bitch. Most women do want what’s best for the children though.

SecondUsername4me · 11/12/2023 08:53

And in addition to the man being basically let off from all responsibility, the mum/parent who doesn't abandon their kids is then given even more grief as they get blamed for everything - they are doing everything!

MsRosley · 11/12/2023 08:55

Owlsoutsidethewindow · 10/12/2023 23:09

I'd say for every man that does this when separating, there are an equal amount of men that want to spend as much time with their children as possible but the children are used as weapons by the mothers. I know 4 people that have separated from husbands or partners this year, in 3 out of 4 circumstances the wife has instigated separation, and in 4 of 4 circumstances they have blocked access to the child for no reason other than spite.

Separation can be very difficult for both sexes.

Absolute BS.

WandaWonder · 11/12/2023 08:57

overripemelon · 10/12/2023 18:46

Ex that barely sees his children. Can’t force him to. He manages a few weeks a year, on his terms when it suits him. Takes on zero of the mental load or upbringing responsibilities.

Why is it still seen as acceptable by society for a male to behave this way but if I walked out people would be absolutely aghast? Men are excused just for being a man.

How is it in 2023 this massive gap still exists? Do you think it will ever improve?

OK so what's the solution?

SuperheroBirds · 11/12/2023 09:01

I’m not sure it is necessarily gendered, I think it is just generally accepted that one parent will do most of of the parenting, and often the mums choose that (presumably because they love their children and want to be there for them). My mum chose to leave our family, and my Dad raised us. She didn’t pay any child support, she had my brother to stay occasionally and that was it. Nobody ever really seemed to vilify her

LaviniasBigBloomers · 11/12/2023 09:06

It absolutely is gendered and it starts right at the beginning. When shared parental leave was brought in there was a lot of hope amongst feminists that it would make a dent in this happening - that if men had more (I'm not saying equal) involvement with their kids right from the start that one of the ways this would trickle down is to post-separation.

No-one takes it up and it didn't happen.

One of the tiny, tiny things we can all do is when a woman posts a litany of issues and ends with 'but he's a great dad' is call it out. Because in UK society 'he's a great dad' often means 'he doesn't actively hate his kids'.

And FFS - and this is where I do put a little bit of blame on women - if a man already has kids and tells you she turned the weans against him, do not go on to procreate with him. Leopards do not change their spots.