Why do we just accept the gap in gender equality when separating?

[overripemelon]

Ex that barely sees his children. Can’t force him to. He manages a few weeks a year, on his terms when it suits him. Takes on zero of the mental load or upbringing responsibilities.

Why is it still seen as acceptable by society for a male to behave this way but if I walked out people would be absolutely aghast? Men are excused just for being a man.

How is it in 2023 this massive gap still exists? Do you think it will ever improve?

That's fine, but in the meantime, we have to control what we CAN control.

And that would be to stop breeding with losers and abusers, ASAP. It just perpetuates human misery, abuse, and other social ills. Raise your standards, women.

Look at all the people on Mumsnet alone who deliberately chose to have kids with men they knew were mean, abusive, irresponsible, druggie/boozy, lazy, disinterested, mama's boys, bad with money, or screwed up, well before conception. That's despicable, to saddle human beings with any of that for a so-called father. Better to never have kids than to let one of those gross oafs sire them.

And btw: who's raising all of these losers? Maybe if people had stricter standards for their choice of mates AND how they choose to raise their offspring, we as a species would improve.

A friend has two kids by the same man, (fine)
But he had abandoned his previous child and mother before my friend had child number one (again fine, the usual script was used by him) but he then dumped her and had another kid by another woman, who he then abandoned to have kid two with my friend.
He then fucked off and had kid 5 with yet another woman.
I do not hold my friend or these other women responsible for the actions of the man would was and still is a fucking arsehole but I do hold them responsible for their own actions.

You haven't answered my question LaurieStrode, you're just bleating the same old same old.

How do we avoid these men if they are the majority? If this is a cultural thing and there simply are not enough good fathers to go round? One effect of this is that, yes, some young women are choosing not to procreate- for this very reason. But it's Hobson's choice if you want kids and there are few good men out there- some women are just going to have choose between childlessness and having kids with an inadequate man.

And I salute each and every one of these women who stayed for their kids and who bear the burden of parenting for two on their shoulders. We are the great ones, the strong ones, the hard working ones, the ones who should be praised to the skies for being there for our kids. We have done nothing wrong, and it's these men who should be ostracised.

An awful lot of couples that split have resentment at an unequally shared load at the heart of their problems.

I suspect that where men are fully engaged when still together with their partner, they continue this after separation. Others can't be arsed in the relationship or out of it.

Complete hogwash.

No one HAS to produce offspring. We can't always have everything we want. If someone doesn't find a decent man to mate with, oh well. Then I guess she doesn't have kids.

The suggestion that it's better to reproduce with a bad man than no man at all is just represhensible. Especially on a dying planet already teeming with 8 billion human beings.

She wanted to dispel any notion that her husband could just go and live as he pleased, which he obviously assumed (and hoped) he would be able to do.
I also can’t help thinking good on her if I’m honest
Hurray for this woman.
I am a mother of a son, but so often I hear mothers of sons making excuses ("baby mumma is a bitch" etc) for their sons walking away from their DC.
Don't expect a tosser before DC to change when DC arrive, and if you leave, leave the DC with their father. Everyone will survive.

@crackofdoom

there are plenty of good men out there, but they are the ones being written off for being boring and not the exciting bad boys.

I got flamed for saying this the last time that this came up, but I will say it again, Young women do not want the good guys, the nice blokes, they want the the exciting bad boys until they are ready to settle down and then the vast majority of the good ones are gone and the ones that are left are written off.

Apparently statistically, a large number of men die alone compared with women who die surrounded by family.

This is because they reaped what they sowed.

They neglect and abandon their kids and partners and so there is no one left by the time their end comes.

Serves them right.

Oh right so 3 women instigated separation from their husbands and then decided to block access due to 'spite'.😂

Something tells me you don't have a clue about the reasons that led to the separation or why access was blocked.

OP, I honestly can't see it improving any time soon.

People around them tend to turn a blind eye to how obviously uninvolved they are, they also lap up the stories about how it's the exes fault even when the man is very clearly problematic and chaotic, then of course there are the new girlfriends who ignore the red flags also.

Because women are stronger and more competent and everyone would worry a lot if children were left with the husband. He would have lots of women (sisters, mums, school mums, etc) stepping in to offer help though

Yep, my experience too @Owlsoutsidethewindow.

We have no contact with our grandchild, in this circumstance.

Blocked totally or just put boundaries in?

I don't let my ex come and go from my home as he pleases- I have set times (twice a week) where he can see our baby and take him Out. More than enough for them
To bond and build a relationship. He sees this as me restricting his access and him losing out on time he should have with his baby and I'm sure he tells his friends and family this. But I can't have someone who has traumatized me in and out of my home constantly, that's not good for me or the baby. And it's not good for a baby to be away from his home and safe place and attachment figure too often either.

I disagree I think the courts bend over backwards to give rights and access to even criminal men

This. And @LaurieStrode they're never this bad before the children come.

I am absolutely not making women responsible for the awful behaviour of some men.

However, women have to take some responsibility for their own awful choices.

Some women make awful choices when it comes to who they have a child with.

That's the ultimate bullshit excuse, sorry. They ARE that bad to people who are paying attention.

Quite agree. I never recovered financially as exh did minimum child care whilst my work had to fit round 3 small children. Career and everything took a huge hit. Basically abandoned us for £££.

Mothers often end up suffering financially on divorce or separation as they often bear the burden of childcare and fitting in working around the needs of the children. Many men have zero restrictions on their working life.

In my situation having 2 children with additional needs meant it was virtually impossible to work until the youngest was in school and even then it was a very bumpy ride as she hated school and eventually school refused and had to be moved to a different specialist school.

My ex sees the kids every other weekend and occasionally midweek for a few hours if he doesn't have work, holidays or plans with his girlfriend.

He does none of the mental load aspect of parenting. He was reluctant when we were married but has now checked out of that stuff completely.

He's never asked to see the kids more often and is very reluctant to take them to parties or any activities as it's too much hassle.

He was the most lovely kind and seemingly helpful man when we first met. It was all fake.

Interestingly his new girlfriend who is a decade younger than him, seems to think he's wonderful with her kids as he regularly collects them from school and takes them to sports events etc.

Will be interesting to see how long he manages to keep that facade going.

@WaddyDarbucks That's not true whatsoever. If both parents wish to have care the starting position is 50/50.

Another side to this issue is that when men look after their own children, they're considered to be heroes.

'Single mum' has been used as an insult, an insinuation about the 'sort' of person she is; a Daily Mail shorthand for benefits-grabbing work avoider.

'Single dad', although not often used (because there aren't many of them) is seen as being a hero of a man who manages to look after children!!

I'd been a single mum for a good while when a colleague told me, quite breathlessly and with eyes wide, that he's just learned that another colleague had brought up his 2 children ON HIS OWN! He waited for me to be as amazed, and when I struiggled to find words, he repeated it....' The mother wasn't around... he brough them up, and kept the houe, all ON HIS OWN'.

I had no words. He was telling me, someone who was bringing up DCS on my own, and looking after a house, and a FT job, with no family for miles, how impressed I could be that A MAN could do it! As though it was more impressive in some way. And many many women were and are doing it, but somehow if a man can bring up his children he's superhuman!!

Look, I can see how people think that women make bad choices. I understand that instinct. BUT... why do they make those choices? Because they don't do it in a vacuum, I assure you. They do it because society tells them it's THEIR fault if their men are bad. That their expectations are too high. That they should do things differently etc etc etc.

DH and I knew that exBIL was a feckless, useless, waste of space. And we tried to tell SIL that before they had children. But she didn't listen. not because she was desperate for children, but because everyone else was telling her that she was the problem.. MIL constantly complained that SIL had ended previous relationships with "nice" men and was "never satisfied". FIL listened to exBIL's stories about how volatile SIL could be and man-to-man agreed that SIL was "difficult" and she was lucky he stuck around.

exBIL went around telling everyone what a caring person he was, and how kind and how difficult his childhood had been and that is why he behaved badly sometimes ("I wear my heart on my sleeve" was his catch all phrase for when he had, yet again, been rude, unpleasant and surly to anyone and everyone. "I just can't control my emotions because I never learnt how as a child") and all the people who didn't actually know him told her how lucky she was to have such a "nice" guy and assured her that if she just supported him, he'd get over his trauma and be better....

DH and I were screaming into the void because we were the only ones who saw him for the lazy, manipulative, controlling ass that he was. I, in particular, was vilified for being so mean and for trying to break them up (DH, of course, can do no wrong in the eyes of PIL).

And the frightening thing is that his behaviour wasn't even particularly hidden compared to a LOT of the "bad" men you hear about or read about on here. we all saw his moods and the way he would sulk (it irritated PIL but they thought it was just a bit childish and that SIL should have been nicer to him in the first place to avoid the sulking). They saw how little he contributed but apparently, that didn't matter because he was "devoted" to SIL and at least he'd never cheat or leave her, and really, she should just ask him for help at home and if she just helped him more and supported him more, perhaps he'd gain the confidence to work more or find a new job. It was ALL on her. ALL of the time.

So yes, part of me is so tired of the fact that she still hs the noose of her ex around her neck because he's such a useless waste of space and she should have known better. And part of me is deeply sympathetic because I listened to all these people telling her that SHE was the problem for over 10 years.

I'm sure my ex tells people I restrict his access to the children. The actual situation is that he works unpredictable hours and frequently travels for work. He wanted to have the children on the days he was home, which couldn't be timetabled in advance and didn't fit around any childcare.

So what he wanted was for me to have the children available for him whenever it was convenient, not have any plans of my own and for me to have to pay for full time childcare anyway because I couldn't rely on him. Basically all the services of a spouse, but without having a spouse.

I refused and told him he had to have a schedule and stick to it. That this was also beneficial for the children. So he has every other weekend because that was the maximum he could do consistently.

By the low standards that men are held to, he is a good father as he fulfils his every other weekends and has now miraculously managed to organise his schedule so he can have half the school holidays (which he claimed was impossible when we were married). He pays maintenance at CMS rates. It's still a lot less than a woman would be held to.

Oh and before anyone says that I should have known what he was like, when the children were conceived he had a regular 9-5 local job. Suddenly when we had a house full of babies, he started to apply for jobs with a lot of travel. Funny that.

I think this sort of parental disinterest by a 'loving' father is pretty poor actually. I'm sure your DH loves his daughter, but you say he's unbothered about seeing her in her play, and he couldn't care less about it. Has he stopped to think about what your daughter wants? The same goes for extra curricular activities, so the things that interest her and she enjoys. Basic stuff like whether she's clean ('had a bath recently') or cold ('got gloves with her') is the bare minimum any parent should be 'bothered' about. This must annoy you.

I know your point is mothers in general are more likely to instinctively take on a nurturing role, but that doesn't mean fathers in general don't think about their child's wellbeing and happiness, or should completely disregard it because it doesn't bother or interest them.

My husband suffers with his mental health, and that can mean he seemingly doesn't care about much at times. A lot of his issues stem from his childhood and feeling like he didn't matter. Because of how he was brought up (or maybe just how he is), he struggles with the idea of showing an interest in things our child does or cares about if he himself is not interested in them.
I reminded him of his upbringing and told him it's not about what he wants to do, it's about supporting our child in doing what makes him happy. Part of that is to see both his parents showing an interest and caring about the things he loves. That changed his whole attitude.

@Almostwelsh yes - whenever I hear posters like an earlier one saying she knows, "4 men who are desperate" for more time with their children I find myself extremely sceptical. In my experience, most (not all, but most) men like this are either straight up lying or are so entitled they genuinely can't understand why their ex wouldn't make their children available as and when it suits them.

They also often get upset if as part of the contact arrangements their ex is firm that they have to be consistent so that she can work/make plans etc.....