Dd has accused me of being a stately homes parent

[bendmeoverbackwards]

Youngest dd is 16. She's had some problems, diagnosed with autism aged 11 but refused to accept it. However she had a very good start at secondary school until the wheels came off in Year 10. Since then she struggled with attendance. I tried to support her as much as I could but she refused therapy or help of any kind. In spite of that, she sat her GCSEs this summer and did reasonably well considering her absence. Unfortunately it was not quite enough for her school sixth form and they denied her a place (we have an appeal pending).

Since then we discussed other options and she was enrolled at a local private school in September. After one day, she said she hated it and refused to return. Since then I have run myself ragged, doing research into other options, phoning/emailing schools, going to open days, talking to professionals for advice.

Lately she's been telling me she is in pain and this is my fault. This week she sent me a Tik-Tok video about a 'growing up in a toxic yet loving household'. I don't completely understand this but from reading some of the stately homes threads on here, I think she means I expect her to be grateful for all the thing I do for her yet refuse to accept the bad stuff. But I'm struggling to understand what bad stuff she means. I think I'm a good, caring parent but I do not think I do no wrong and accept my mistakes like any other parent. I try and listen to her (as I do with my two older dds) and always apologise if I get something wrong.

Sometimes I feel a bit abused by her. It is apparently ok for her to shout at me, call me names etc but if I sound even a bit snappy or walk away when she's yelling or cross- questioning me, I never hear the end of it.

What the hell do I do?

Ah it has been updated!!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4902615-september-2023-well-we-took-you-to-stately-homes

My daughter was unspeakable to me at that age, always telling me what a shit mum I was and that I did the latest toxic thing she’d seen on til too. I was by no means perfect but we became very disconnected and is made me feel awful.

She is absolutely delightful now (19). She is loving and affectionate and we have a good relationship. She now claims to not even remember some of the things she said!
some children are just horrible as teenagers.

@bendmeoverbackwards

have you read The Explosive Child?

it’s great and has some good conversation guides for kids like your daughter.

similar to advice here on becoming a more neutral supporter and less of the source of all solutions / problems.

it’s does sound like education isn’t right for her right now and as she’s both avoiding that and upset about it she’s taking that out on you

It’s understandable she’s worried as society puts so much store on it, and with ASD she may be quite the literal thinker.

maybe you can find a way to show her some people that have had paths involved some breaks from education and still turned out well that she can identify with?

but also. I don’t think it’s good for either of you for you to become her punch bag.

that is a co-dependent relationship and yes it sounds a bit abusive. That’s a terrible thing to model for her.

as the adult it is your role to change this.

are you in therapy yourself? If not I suggest you find someone that works for you ASAP. The best parenting advice I ever got was to look at myself, with therapeutic support to see how my own stuff was involved and deal with that myself.

hadley Freeman’s book about her anorexia has a chapter on mothers and daughters. Your daughters issues are different but still I think her advice is solid for all of us:

do not become her carer - long term
that is sabotaging her

Go to therapy yourself now

last and related, I think you need some boundaries with her. Eg it is not reasonable for her to expect you to reply to every single message.

id suggest you get support for yourself first to decide what you want to change and how you are going to do it, as likely she’ll lash back at you as you change things, and you’ll need support to cope with that.

but you are not serving her by participating in her unreasonable behaviours

there is a difference between support and collusion

Hi OP, some good advice here. The Explosive Child is good.

I teach A-level. It's not for everyone. I teach kids every year who aren't really suitable and it makes them (and me!) miserable.

I think @Octavia64's advice is good.

My DD is only year 6 but I can well imagine her carrying on like this at 16. Fortunately she got her ASD diagnosis at 7 so it's perhaps more part of her identity than if she'd been older. At least everything is either my fault OR DH's so we get a bit of a break 😂. That's a development. It all used to be my fault...

BTECs are really good. They are on their way out though sadly so do check they're definitely on offer for 2025 before you commit.

@bendmeoverbackwards
I feel for you as I can understand your situation a bit.
DD also had very disappointing GCSE results but barely made it to her schools 6th form. However, she had to completely choose different subjects and isn't enjoying them.
She could have gone to another 6th form but would not have been the subjects she originally wanted anyway so she refused to change schools.
She is miserable now.
School and studies are a big trigger to her dwindling mental health.
She won't do gcse resits and it's now too late to move schools for this year.
I suspect she will drop out or continue being miserable.
Luckily she has made new friends so that motivates her to go to school though we have increasing school refusal.

I am quietly going to apply to 2 more schools for restarting 6th form next year.
Is that something you could do?
In you DDs case even if you win appeal there is very good chance she may struggle to start this year..
So much of the course work would have been started already and she would struggle.
Of course I appreciate she won't listen to any of your reasoning about this and I understand it is super hard to watch her do nothing.
Does she have a job?
Hang in there...it won't last forever
Xx

My daughter has also said things like this however I know they aren’t really true she is lashing out at me as I am safe enough for her to be able to explore these feelings.

Yes it is hurtful but I have stately home parents and I would never talk to them like this as it would make my life a misery as it would wound them and they would be out for spiteful revenge on me and make it all about them and have literally no insight into any of my own feelings. You and I are not doing that.

My DD has ADHD and some emotional dysregulation issues - she is very PDA traits. She forgets all the kind calm loving things I do for her when she is angry and sad but this does seem to be that I am the safe person for her to express it all too. Don’t take it personally about yourself and stay calm. You are trying your best

@bendmeoverbackwards <waves> I think she is angry and her anger is misdirected at you rather than at herself. Knowing about other stuff you have posted, you stayed behind and missed a family holiday to help her, you have tried so many times in so many ways to support her and let's be honest she knew this was coming. She needed a certain number of GCSE points to get into the sixth form she wanted, she knew she was coming up short but she wasn't willing to accept any help from anyone to improve her grades. As a parent that must have been incredibly frustrating and upsetting because you could both see this coming. Also I am not a stalker to everyone else reading this, bend and I know a bit about each other from another thread.

I think there may also be underlying competitive reasons for wanting to do A levels like her older sisters have. She doesn't want to be different to them. Does she want to go to uni ultimately? Does she know she can get in with BTECs? I think you are right that taking a year out and applying elsewhere is the best course of action. She is possibly thinking that being a year older makes her stand out amongst her peers whereas we know it doesn't. No one is going round on the first day asking how old everyone is.

I also think that it is hard to work out how much of her behaviour is just teenager stuff and how much is influenced by her autism. You are not a stately home parent from what you have posted in the past. Teenagers can be very dramatic and make out they live in a shoe box in the middle of the motorway if they think it will connect them to their friends, whether in real life or increasingly on the internet.

I think at this point I would ask her point blank what does she want, that she needs to take ownership now as you have tried everything else and it is met with a no. So up to her to decide what she is doing rather than you trying everything and having it rejected without real consideration. And a very un MN hug for you.

@FredintheShed's post is wise.

I suppose I also have stately homes parents (they did quite literally take us to loads of stately homes 😂) and while they're not horrible, I'd get blank incomprehension and changing of the subject if I tried to discuss anything emotional at all.

I think kids now are lucky that parents are at least a bit more emotionally literate.

Personally, the “explosive child” book didn’t really help me - but my teenage son had undiagnosed ASD/ADHD and was not just going through a difficult teenage “phase”.

I think the poster who mentions your DD being unable to cope with her own limitations because of her autism or possibly PDA - and instead blaming you - is closer to the mark. It must be upsetting her blaming you for her own frustrations.

There is no need for you to have therapy or blame yourself. You sound like the great parent you yourself never had.

I would let your DD “be” and drop the rope. Listen to her. Maybe make the odd suggestion. But apart from that back off. It’s almost the more you try to help them the more they hate it - weird I know. Look after and think of yourself <hugs>

Sometimes I feel a bit abused by her. It is apparently ok for her to shout at me, call me names etc but if I sound even a bit snappy or walk away when she's yelling or cross- questioning me, I never hear the end of it

I had some of this. Though put my foot down as much as I could anyway. Completely unacceptable. Sometimes my teenager would shout at me accusing me of shouting. Actually he was the only one shouting - it was weird and at times I thought I was going mad. I don’t understand the reasons entirely but some kind of mind blindness seemed to be at play. It was so difficult to deal with and like you I tried my best. Slowly I have dropped the rope, but it’s sad when you had hopes for their lives and you see them struggling and angry, even with you.

My daughter can be like this. Shuts off every Avenue until you’re boxed into a corner. She dropped out of 6th form with burnout. Currently fighting for an EHCP

I think it’s anxiety that causes them to close everything down. They come to it when ready.

Mine blamed me for her burnout the other day as l couldn’t listen to her special interest of Taylor Swift for 1/2 an hour😖so burnout was then my fault🙄

She can be irritable and challenging. It just washes over me now, she’s not good at communicating feelings. I just tell her l can’t get everything right. But l still love her.

The Explosive Child wasn't so much practically helpful in dealing with my ADHD / ASD daughter either (author does acknowledge it's not particularly aimed at SEN and the US system is different anyway) - but it made me feel a lot better as a parent! It was comforting to read that enough others struggled that someone had written a book from a professional perspective.

The other one I like is Jeffrey Bernstein's 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child. That does have good practical strategies.

I'd take whatsapp off your phone for now to stop that one in it's tracks.

Overall though you do need to gradually stop the massive over parenting your doing. She's 16 not 6. Time for her to sort out colleges/courses. Tell her you'll help her but she's got to take the lead.

And re ending conversations/walking away could you try saying that it's just so you can both calm down and reassure her you will talk about it but just need a breather first?

Wtf are you doing she is not your friend she is your daughter you need to put your foot down and if she don't like it walk away. If she don't want to go college or school then make her get a job food is not free. She is the child you are the adult.

I really did have a stately homes parent and stepparent. I got fantastic GCSE results, but they tried to pressure me into leaving school at 16 to work (so they could take money off of me no doubt). Your extremely lucky daughter gets to go to private school at your expense because she chose to mess up her exams (non attendance is a choice with obvious consequences). I think she should be grateful!

My second daughter messed around at school and college. We paid for her to do level 2 hairdressing privately 1 day a week. She also has a job. She is a different child still fucks about here and there but she likes money and hairdressing.

*bendmeoverbackwards · 10/11/2023 21:39

And yes I am definitely walking on egg shells. She likes to communicate with me by WhatsApp and expects a response to Every. Single. Message. Woe betide I miss one, she’ll then resend and hassle me until I answer to her satisfaction*

This is to do with not understanding boundaries as part of ASD. Mine does this. It’s a bit like a bat squeaking in the dark. She doesn’t kick off I miss them. She can get upset though.

Sounds like anxiety and demand avoidance have now become so big that she doesn't know what she wants to do, so is sticking to the "already set in stone" plan helps with the overwhelm.

I'd give her a week's time out for demand and school discussions. Let her rest her brain. You can then help with a pros and cons list for each school option. Then give her time to process it. This way, she can feel in control rather than decisions made for her.

Shouting isn't acceptable. I used to walk away and tell them to come and speak to me when they feel calmer, usually directing them to a quiet space, such as their room, for them to calm themselves away from noise and distractions.

Mum of 4 Nd kids who are now lovely adults.

It’s often burnout that triggers school refusal.

Let her recover. Mine gets full pip. She’s not in school, but wants to return to education. Your Dd is struggling in a NT environment. Girls often crash at years 10 and 11.

Low demand, lots of sleep. Don’t offer options or ask her to make decisions. Lots of special interest. Irritability/ anger can be part of it.

I find it helpful to recognise that my DD is significantly less mature than her peers in some (not all) ways when I'm dealing with stuff.

I think the wheels often start getting wobbly for ND girls when they are about this age. My eldest DD and I lost our way when she started alevels. There were a lot of other factors involved than "just" her autism, but a communication breakdown is a communication breakdown. I had to take a massive step back, and let her have her own version of events, even if I disagreed. I made a lot of mistakes with her but I don't know if I'm actually capable of parenting her the way she needed. (I'm also ND)

If I could do it again, I would have allowed her some breathing space after GCSEs, maybe a year off or a Level 2 course with low expectations/demands to keep her ticking over and out and about.

Instead I pressured her to keep at it and it fractured our relationship pretty badly. She went on to do uni, but at the cost of our relationship. It is painful to admit that.

Also, it’s worth remembering neurodiversity comes in many guises. Some are easier to handle than others and some also come together with other things eg ASD and ADHD together. One parent’s positive or negative experience doesn’t mean yours will be the same.

I have a friend with an autistic teenager who is (mostly) a sweetie and he is doing ok and she is very close to him, perhaps more so than her other children. However some neurodiversities can be be very hard to handle, both for the child or adult child and parent.

So, with ND one cannot measure one’s own experience by others’. However, one can gain flashes of insight from others’ experience which can be helpful.

Yeah, I agree. I kept pushing mine because l didn’t know any better. So she self harmed.

That was the turning point. EHCP application went and and l started backing off. She’s been out of school since April. But is getting better. It’s hard.

I agrrr that the wheels come off in mid adolescence.

They don’t really understand boundaries with their mother in this situation it’s not an excuse to constantly message you and get upset when you don’t reply but hear me out this is how I see my DD. She is unconfident and unsure in who she is as a person yet, the idea of becoming an adult and being on her own is fucking terrifying her. The anxiety leads to them wanting to almost be an extension of you with you making all the decisions and having a constant connection to you. As they grow and you are teaching them to become more independent they interpret this as rejection, they aren’t ready for that step so they push back on it. It’s socially conventional to do XYZ with a teenager at a certain point to set them on a life path but kids like my DD are clinging to their childhood out of fear so it’s like putting your hands over your face and pretending it’s not happening. But it is happening.

You will be ok, you will prepare your DD for adult life it’s just a slow challenging process and you have to stay patient. I did not think my DD would EVER be as independent as she now is, she’s at least 3 years behind her peers but she has got there it’s just hard work! I’m so proud of her (and myself) so I make sure I tell her I’m proud and she is finally growing in her own self assurance - she’s 21 and still needs me for so many things, which I think embarrasses her a bit too. I mean I don’t know how I kept her in school apart from begging her teachers not to exclude her and completely keeping my shit together when she was a nightmare 🙈I did all her final college assignments online to get her through as she had got herself into a mess 🙈 and I had to take her to and from her first and only job for 4 years until she finally learnt to drive 🙈 (which she now can!) and I am still traumatised from all the times I was 3.5 minutes late for pick up and she had a furious entitled bratty meltdown at me 🙈 but she’s finally learning to see me as a person not just part of her as like a walking talking umbilical cord.. does this make sense?

Sometimes this happens in reverse with a parent who cannot let go of their DC, and the child ends up running away to the stately home thread 😉

Re telling you you’re shouting when you’re not, that is SH behaviour from HER, not you.