Do most men on some level see women as lesser than men?

[standandeliveroo]

I have a good marriage, we have been together for almost 30 years and we have a loving supportive marriage, I was recently ill and my husband did really look after me as I have done for him in the past.

However even in such a good marriage there are times I do feel like he sees me as a kind of supporting act to him in a way that I do not with him. If we have jobs to do round the house, he will need me there to help him do "his job" while the things on my list are secondary and that if he holds me up from doing my jobs he'll them be miffed that I can't sit down with him when he is done his chores. Its like I exist to facilitate him on some level and he has an expectation that I will keep the house to a certain standard and cook nice food. When we first got married he was appreciative of all these things I did and would thank me for the lovely food and cosy home I made for us on top of working but in time it all just became accepted and now all I get is ire if things slip. I also feel like I am supposed to help him manage his moods and emotions and smooth things over for him which of course I often don't mind doing because I do want to support him but I feel that in many ways he should be mature enough to manage his own moods most of the time e.g. he often gets hangry, getting into a bad mood when he is hungry, he is in his 40's and so I think he should know by now that he needs to eat before he gets this way but so often he doesn't and I end up bearing the brunt of his hangry moods or if I can I am trying to manage them, knowing he needs to eat before he does and so I'll feign hunger and a headache to ensure we stop for food like a mum trying to prevent her toddler from getting too hungry or tired.

I see and talk about the same types of things from the women I know in work and long time friends and it always feels like even the good men, still see women as their aids, as secondary to them in some way, second class human beings who's needs aren't quite as valid as theirs. I feel like perhaps most men are like this and do actually see women as appendages as opposed to fully human just like them.

Yes, many men see women as the help-humans.

Our society trains men to think of themselves as the star of the show, and women as supporting roles. (How many films aimed at a mainstream audience - so not just women - have women in main roles, or any women in decent roles at all?)

They are socialised to accept, and even expect, women to do the shit work, without complaining, while making ourselves look pretty and bigging up their achievements no matter how small.

And don't get me started on porn...

We live in a patriarchy, and this is how it plays out in our lives. It's truly depressing once the scales start falling from your eyes and you realise just how many men, including those who style themselves as "decent men" are happy to exploit women for their own ends, often without even realising they're doing it.

It's why feminism exists, and why there's still so much work left to do.

This quote is nearly 40 years old now. Lots has changed since the 80s, but not nearly enough.

Fundamentally, this still holds true.

Increasingly everyone thinks they’re the star of the movie of their lives, and I think men do this more than women, generally. We just live in a very individualistic society where everything - everything - has shrunk down to the self.

@yetanotherdaytoday I agree many don't know they are doing it, its just business as usual for them after having mothers and other girlfriends looks after them. I do think you can be like this and be a decent man but it's like a massive blind spot so many of them have.

A lot of men do, not all but I would say a large proportion do. I don't myself, I see everyone as equal, same with everything else including responsibilities. Although I don't think I'm like a lot of guys as I've not really come across any that see things the same as I do and I don't really share the same views or interests as most and struggle to get on with guys.

It was like this way from young in my experience, from the way they are raised to how things work socially. Only thing I can see different in mine is that I was raised by women mostly and I was taught to do everything myself and not rely on a woman. That or I'm weird, I dunno.

I find that most women find men as a secondary character and a supporting role. However, I've been born into a family where a woman is always the matriarch. Men listen and are put in their place when needed.

I guess it's just how you were brought up.

I do see men as lesser than women as a result, in nearly every sense.

Let’s face it, no matter what, at the end of the day men just want “mothering.” It’s pathetic. Who “fathers” women?

I for one won’t do that. I’m supportive and caring but I’ve sometimes been driven to say “you’re not six and I’m not your mother.”

My DP sees me as lesser in some ways, generally around things that require physical strength. That is objectively true as well, so it is not unreasonable.

He sees me as much better than him at seeing what the family need - I know how to manage teenage angst better than him, I know how to create a good event for our families, I know how to ensure communication is good amongst us all. That is also objectively true, so is not unreasonable.

He totally respects me, and values our differences. Different does not equal lesser, and he is very open in ensuring I know that he values the things I am good at which he isn't. Both of our strengths make for happy lives as far as I am concerned, they are complimentary to one another and there is no animosity or judgy-ness, it just is the objective truth.

We do have areas where we compete heavily where there isn't necessarily one of who is objectively better and these tend to be sport related or game related - Trivial pursuit, tennis, that sort of thing, and we can have intense competitions which neither of us want to lose.

I think this is true and that men often think of it as an excuse to think of women as lesser iyswim. "It's not that I'm a man, it's that I'm me!"

Who “fathers” women?

I had a pretty rough father and my DP kind of does father me, if by that you mean he would physically protect me, ensure that I am safe financially, listen to my woes....he definitely does do that?

I am not sure it is not that women don't have anyone to mother them, which of course, most men are useless at, including mine.

Yes, many men do not even like women and yes many do not even realise how much their partner is doing for them - things where they don't reciprocate.

However, what I find fascinating is women who simultaneously put men on pedestal and treat them like toddlers.

Of course we need to prioritise Dhs career, DH has a big important job, no no of course I couldn't possibly do a big important job myself as a feeble woman. But obviously the same important DH needs step by step instructions to do anything but their big important job. No, they couldn't possibly be expected to figure out that children should wear boots and not sandals when it's snowing if you don't tell them and of course house will be like a bombsite if DH is left home alone, haha how funny.

How does that work?

I dont think most, but i do think alot. Most the men i know dont think of women like that, but a few of the older 65+ men do.

Come from a big family where women were definitely not lesser than men and consider myself very lucky with my upbringing. I've never been excepting of being treated as second best, or 'less than' at home or work, which often has me labelled as being difficult, which is how men like to label you when you don't behave as they'd like you to, but behave in the way we all should! Thinking the women of Iceland got it right, with their recent strike.

But it isn't about what you think or how you perceive things it's about men, even if have a certain expectation or don't accept certain behaviours, that doesn't mean that men don't see you or women in general as less than.

In a word, Yes

Yes I resonate with your post. My husband is a lovely man but he definitely prioritises himself over me and the children. It’s often in a way that he doesn’t even notice. I have the same issue with chores. I get on with stuff, he always tries to involve me in everything he does. It’s partly because he always likes me to be around but also because he subconsciously thinks I should facilitate his existence! It can be really hard work and I do call it out when I can.

I an awful lot do. I think a lot of men see us as crap/faulty men. Even the ones that love us as individuals.

It's not just men, statistics show that many (most?) women also believe men are better.

Yes absolutely.

Also agree, men put themselves first, we put ourselves last. An example, made fillet steak for tea, automatically gave dh the best bit, I know had he been doing it, he would give himself the best bit. I have seen many examples of this and its true of every single couple I know.

Men generally put themselves first when it comes down to it. My mother used to say, 'it's a man's world and always will be'.

Women thinking men are better? No one I know thinks this

Yes

Look at Paw Patrol - a modern children's tv programme - the two female pups act as support systems for the six male pups
That's just one example of how these attitudes are ingrained early on

And as for the children's adverts - dear god!

I say many times to the grandchildern - 'your mummy is not a servant'
It's just starting to get through

(Beware the namalt brigade - they'll be on to howl their disapproval with shite examples)

Yes, I do believe most men think this way. My DH always expected me to get involved in tasks. I knew as soon as he started something it wouldn't be long before my name was called and much of it was honestly quite unnecessary. I think it's a subconscious power thing. Also the soothing of moods. DH, although a nice man, would huff and puff and sometimes show quite emotionally intimidating behaviour because he was tired, hungry, the task at hand wasn't going well, the train was late - whatever. Men are programmed to put themselves first, its evolutionary as well as learned behaviour. Women aren't. We have to make sure our offspring are nurtured and we put our needs last.