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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

This is mind games from my sister, right? What do I do

111 replies

heyomayo · 30/10/2023 08:42

I want a relationship with my niece and soon to be another DN but finding it hard to have that. I’ve only seen my niece three times in her life even though I live in the same town. Twice the week she was born. Niece is one next month and sister is a SAHM. I have offered them: my lunch hour, 4pm, the weekend- always offering to go to theirs as I see it’s hard with a baby - yet they’re always busy. Bedtime routine starts at 3pm and they’re out in the day every day I’ve asked. I said I could come after niece is in bed and she has said no. My sister said 7-8am works for them. Anybody who cares enough about being in my niece’s life will make themselves available at that time. If they can’t, they’re showing where their priorities lie. That is exactly what she’s said. We have sent gifts for the baby & vouchers for them, food etc, in lieu of being able to actually see them.

You might read this and think, she doesn’t want you involved. That’s how it sounds, right? Except she is going to our parents in tears saying nobody cares about niece and she expected better from her sisters and she’s sick of pouring in effort for it not to be matched. The strange thing is; she hasn’t once tried to meet us. When I did see her and niece by chance, she made a big performance of asking niece who I was and saying ‘I bet you don’t know who this stranger is’ and put the baby in a carrier immediately, presumably so I didn’t come any closer.

I don’t think it’s PPD or PPA - could be wrong, but she has a history of trying to test me to see how far I’ll go to show her I love her. Nothing I do is ever good enough. I can’t speak to her nicely about it as she flies off the handle and says I am looking for an argument and always taking what she says and does the wrong way. If I deny this, I am gaslighting her.

What do I do? Why’s she doing this?

OP posts:
jlpth · 30/10/2023 12:52

I cannot warn you enough- this will not change.

you can stop it now, or in 20 years time. Don’t be me. It took me the 20 years as I kept being the bigger person and peacekeeping. Nothing changes. Put a stop to it today. Ignore her and leave her to stew in her own juices

jlpth · 30/10/2023 12:54

Yes I agree fgs don’t send presents and money

Scrapper142 · 30/10/2023 13:00

She likely has some sort of personality disorder, therapy is probably all that can help. She'll always be the victim, everything revolves around her and within her control. She is pandered to to stop her kicking off, giving her more power. The kids are just a new pawn for her to use.

Unfortunately there are two children involved that are likely to affected heavily growing up in this environment.

The only power you have is to step back and not play her games. She'll tell anyone who'll listen how terrible you are because that will be the only control she'll have left. There's loads of information available for dealing with people like this and learn some coping mechanisms. Be strong and confident when dealing with her, have answers to her accusations that she can't argue with. Don't engage in her bullshit.

Original poster
heyomayo · 30/10/2023 13:04

Scrapper142 · 30/10/2023 13:00

She likely has some sort of personality disorder, therapy is probably all that can help. She'll always be the victim, everything revolves around her and within her control. She is pandered to to stop her kicking off, giving her more power. The kids are just a new pawn for her to use.

Unfortunately there are two children involved that are likely to affected heavily growing up in this environment.

The only power you have is to step back and not play her games. She'll tell anyone who'll listen how terrible you are because that will be the only control she'll have left. There's loads of information available for dealing with people like this and learn some coping mechanisms. Be strong and confident when dealing with her, have answers to her accusations that she can't argue with. Don't engage in her bullshit.

Thank you. She works in healthcare herself and would never admit to needing any help even if she did. My friend thinks it’s narcissism.

OP posts:
Hibambinos · 30/10/2023 13:13

I would seriously back off and simply say “oh poor you, you are always so busy!” Then leave it. It’s a game. She doesn’t want you involved but wants to be the victim, despite the fact she is clearly not. It must be exhausting being her!
tell your parents firmly that you would like to be involved but can’t get a time that your sis agrees to - bedtime routine from 3pm is cobblers - but I suspect your whole family probably know she talks a lot of that .

Orangetattoo · 30/10/2023 13:21

It's disappointing when a friend or family member expects you to pander to their ever need on the basis that they have children. Sadly seems to happen alot.

Take a step back OP, your presence is valuable and your sister isn't 'doing you a favour' by allowing you to see your niece.

Scrapper142 · 30/10/2023 13:24

Its easy to armchair diagnose narcissism (happens on here a lot), but from my (armchair) its just one of many disorders. Without proper diagnosis it'd be impossible to know the truth.

However, this is about you and not her. You can get a reasonable idea of whats going on and learn how you need to deal with her. I've found Quora useful in the past. No, you're not going to solve her issues but it can help order your thoughts and gain some clarification, maybe give you tools to help you deal with her going forward. Or almost allow yourself 'permission' to walk away.

pumpykins · 30/10/2023 13:38

So she has plans every single weekend ahd those plans never involve family?

Do you have a family WhatsApp chat?

Can you initiate a family gathering one weekend?

Id just turn up at the parents when she is not there

Original poster
heyomayo · 30/10/2023 13:53

Scrapper142 · 30/10/2023 13:24

Its easy to armchair diagnose narcissism (happens on here a lot), but from my (armchair) its just one of many disorders. Without proper diagnosis it'd be impossible to know the truth.

However, this is about you and not her. You can get a reasonable idea of whats going on and learn how you need to deal with her. I've found Quora useful in the past. No, you're not going to solve her issues but it can help order your thoughts and gain some clarification, maybe give you tools to help you deal with her going forward. Or almost allow yourself 'permission' to walk away.

Thank you

OP posts:
lovenotwar149 · 30/10/2023 14:03

Tricky one. I think she is making it very difficult for you, maybe she can then play the victim card to your parents and say 'no one visits us etc'. Is she older than you? My older sis sounds similar. Fortunately I have a relationship with my 2 nieces who are adults now , but I don't have a relationship with my older sis. I would stop rallying around her completely. Make a date to go there , if she cancels for whatever reason, accept this and WAIT. Let her to some chasing.

Original poster
heyomayo · 30/10/2023 14:06

lovenotwar149 · 30/10/2023 14:03

Tricky one. I think she is making it very difficult for you, maybe she can then play the victim card to your parents and say 'no one visits us etc'. Is she older than you? My older sis sounds similar. Fortunately I have a relationship with my 2 nieces who are adults now , but I don't have a relationship with my older sis. I would stop rallying around her completely. Make a date to go there , if she cancels for whatever reason, accept this and WAIT. Let her to some chasing.

Yes she’s older! How did you guess

OP posts:
lovenotwar149 · 30/10/2023 14:09

Because she sounds like my older sis

Discointhekitchen · 30/10/2023 14:09

heyomayo · 30/10/2023 09:18

Does anyone know why someone like this would behave in such a way?

I’d love to know what the issue is. I posted yesterday about my brother. I just can’t fathom why people would want a bad relationship with their sibling.

I hate to sound like a cliche, but this kind of extreme behaviour has to be some kind of personality disorder. In exhibition case, there’s no changing them. Best to walk away.

lovenotwar149 · 30/10/2023 14:10

She complains that no one goes to see her or makes any effort with her. When I do she cancels OR if she doesn't cancel she behaves horribly. Its a no win situation. I have accepted it now and that peaceful I chased her for YEARS, YEARS!!!

Catsafterme · 30/10/2023 14:18

I can relate and I was the father in my situation, I tried to keep the peace but it failed. My wife was abusive and extremely controlling especially with the children and prevented people seeing them. She isolated us completely in the end, she found some reason to cut people out.

Now she has done the same to me and my children are isolated.

Be wary of your actions. You cannot win, you will always be the problem and more external noise, in my case, made it volatile at home.

Discointhekitchen · 30/10/2023 14:19

@heyomayo hello - only just realised you posted on my thread about brother.

Your sis behaved exactly like my ex-H. Creating ridiculous hurdles for cooperation, then turning it round and making it out he is the victim.

he is a textbook narcissist. ( I hate to be another armchair psychologist, but that is what it looks like)

She wants to exert control. She will also never change, so best thing is not to engage.

as Pps have said, feign indifference towards her daughter. She’ll soon forget this tactic if it doesn’t work.

one thing about narcissists is that they have no long term strategy. They just want the instant gratification from controlling someone. If you walk away, this will stop being an issue.

MaggieFS · 30/10/2023 14:27

I wouldn't continue with the presents either. You have no idea if they are getting to DN and she won't understand who they are from anyway.

We have one now ex-relation who was removing the tags from Christmas presents and putting them under the tree from Father Christmas. This only transpired once the DC were adults and it came up in a conversation about a very particular gift. 18 years of presents from about seven relatives had never been acknowledged, but the givers didn't want the children to feel left out and assumed they were just rude not to say thank you.

Bide you time, OP, save your money until you can take her out or give presents via your parents.

BTW, I'm curious that you said your parents have her - is that also 7-8am?

Original poster
heyomayo · 30/10/2023 14:29

MaggieFS · 30/10/2023 14:27

I wouldn't continue with the presents either. You have no idea if they are getting to DN and she won't understand who they are from anyway.

We have one now ex-relation who was removing the tags from Christmas presents and putting them under the tree from Father Christmas. This only transpired once the DC were adults and it came up in a conversation about a very particular gift. 18 years of presents from about seven relatives had never been acknowledged, but the givers didn't want the children to feel left out and assumed they were just rude not to say thank you.

Bide you time, OP, save your money until you can take her out or give presents via your parents.

BTW, I'm curious that you said your parents have her - is that also 7-8am?

No they usually have her for 24-48 hours to give them a break, a couple of times a month. But they’re allowed over whenever really

OP posts:
Cheeseandlobster · 30/10/2023 14:34

BananaHamster · 30/10/2023 08:49

Bedtime starts at 3pm? Visit between 7-8am? She's having you on and making things difficult on purpose.

This. Your sister is horrendously manipulative. I pity your niece if this is who her mum is

PabloandGustheGreySquirrels · 30/10/2023 14:40

Just cut her off seriously. You can explain to niece in future

Original poster
heyomayo · 30/10/2023 14:42

Cheeseandlobster · 30/10/2023 14:34

This. Your sister is horrendously manipulative. I pity your niece if this is who her mum is

Show quote history

If I seem surprised (as I did before the first time she told me) she just laughs pitifully and says I’ll understand when I’m a parent myself and that they need to get her to bed for 5pm so they can have their evening together undisturbed. Not sure how true it is. The friends I know with babies vary, some routine some absolutely don’t and just go with the flow and I guess different things work for everyone.

I have said, oh it’s okay if ‘Julie’ is asleep, I can come round after and bring a takeaway or bottle of wine and she just repeats that late afternoons and evenings are a bad time for them and that’s how life is with a baby.

OP posts:
Autiebibliophile · 30/10/2023 14:56

I would say. "If seems like its impossible for us to visit you right now with how busy you are. If things ease up let me know and we can arrange to meet. I will leave it with you "
Then do exactly that. Ask your parents not to tell you about her complaints and just ignore her

Catsafterme · 30/10/2023 15:12

It's likely because in her mind you are not part of the integral family unit, they are her children and no one else's. Anyones opinion is wrong, anyone spending time is taking away hers and undoing what she has done already. The bond must be between her and the children, anyone else's is diminishing hers.

Routine must be a certain way, every day, cannot do this because the routine, busy or xyz will happen. Make people jump through hoops and impossible to maintain a relationship and when they don't, they are the problem.

It strengthens the dependency on her. No matter how considerate you are or try to accommodate it will never be right. You will likely not see it but behind closed doors that household will be firmly in her grip.

Maray1967 · 30/10/2023 15:20

Some good advice on here, OP.

  1. your sister seems to desperately need to control things. You won’t win by trying to placate her; just stop trying to. Back right off.
  2. Save your money for your niece so she can have it when she’s older. She has no idea what gifts are or who gave them!
lovenotwar149 · 30/10/2023 15:51

This is a very sad situation , one I can relate too very much so. Once you reach the radical acceptance stage of 'this behaviour is about her' you may be able to let go. Sadly it may mean you dont have a relationship with your niece and that's very sad for your niece as she'll miss out with such a controlling parent. But you can't do anything about it. It sucks! No one wins in these situations.

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