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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Do shit men change?

82 replies

Radiatorjeans · 28/10/2023 18:55

I'm late 30s and broke up with a man around 15 months ago of the same age. But my hand was forced because he was uncompromising, selfish, cold and ultimately did something intolerable which I'm not going into but proved I was waaaaaayyyyyy down his priority list. It crossed every boundary.
I was devastated and he didn't talk to me afterwards, even though I would've been keen to work through things. This, I recognise, was a mistake on my part and my initial decision to end things was correct.
Around 2 months later I heard through the grapevine he was dating.
Today I saw them and they look so happy. To clarify, I don't want him back although there are some residual feelings - mainly of hurt and anger. I couldn't trust him.
But it stung, because I was on my own and he seemed happy, so do these men change? Is it the wrong woman or are they fundamentally selfish?

OP posts:

SisterMichaelsHabit · 28/10/2023 18:56

do shit men change?
No

Also, anyone can stand still and smile in a photo. Doesn't make them a good person. Or happy.

Time to move on.

Watchkeys · 28/10/2023 18:59

Look to yourself. You're feeling uncomfortable and asking questions, but the questions are about him/shit men.

Ask this of yourself: Why are you spending any of your valuable time wondering about this? Why has it crossed your mind, even? If we tell you 'Yes, they can change', what feeling will it give you? If we say 'No, they never change', what feeling will that give you? Which answer do you like best? Which does the most for you?

Original poster

Radiatorjeans · 28/10/2023 19:02

I know I need to move on - that's totally reasonable :)

OP posts:

spookehtooth · 28/10/2023 19:14

I'll go contrary to this and suggest yes, they can change, but it's not a given that they will.

How? When people get to know each other they have a degree of power in negotiating the rules and how to treat each other. To try and change the rules of engagement mid or late relationship is harder because it's harder for people to set new boundaries that they're prepared to enforce. Oftentimes people rely on mutual consent to changes. Also very often there's been a breakdown in trust, and a number of memories of unresolved conflicts.

I'm not a shit man, I hope, but I am definitely a different person than I was in my last long relationship that I ended back in 2018. Reflection, life experience and time spent learning about having better comunication with strangers from doing environmental activism since then

flowertoday · 28/10/2023 19:15

NO, absolutely not. Once an asshole, always an asshole in my painful life experience personally.
FWIW I think it is part of the self blame/ self doubt number that many of us sink into after a painfull break up - 'was it me, did I make him abuse me , disrespect me , go off with someone else etc.'
The answer is no to that too.
Take care of yourself, there will be someone better and worthy of your time along in time.

IncomingTraffic · 28/10/2023 19:18

IME they get worse. Which is change, but not improvement.

spookehtooth · 28/10/2023 19:18

@flowertoday a man changing or getting on better with someone else doesn't make anything a fault of their former partner or mean that the relationship could've gotten better

IncomingTraffic · 28/10/2023 19:19

also remember that just because you can look at people in passing and think they look really happy, you have no idea what is going on.

PTSDBarbiegirl · 28/10/2023 19:25

I can testify that shit men NEVER change. They get worse, especially if responsible for children. Move on, his GF will be as unhappy as you were.

didistutter56 · 28/10/2023 19:33

Nope, they do not! My shit abusive ex has had three failed relationships since we broke up 5 years ago, whereas I’ve been in a happy relationship for 4 years!

AcrossthePond55 · 28/10/2023 19:35

I'd say it's a possibility that some shit men can change, but I'd also say it's not something I'd ever wait around for. But if a shit man is going to change he's going to do it on his own, for himself, and at his own instigation. Not because his partner urges him to, demands he change, or issues an ultimatum. And not because he's suddenly found 'The One'. The change comes first with lots of hard work and mental pain. Then, perhaps, he's ready for a relationship.

But I agree with a PP, what you may see in public has nothing to do with who your ex is behind closed doors. One of the most abusive relationships I know appears, on the surface, to be 'wonderful'.

Listen, if he wanted to change to be with you, he would have changed. He didn't. That means he never would have. Move on.

Original poster

Radiatorjeans · 28/10/2023 19:41

I know you shouldn't but I do think... "what does she have?" And then I mentally kick myself and think "he was crap - he crossed a line, you ended it and he hated that". I'm desperate to know, even though it would serve no purpose, if he was only like that with me even though I suspect he wasn't and this is his innate character. Does that make sense?! I know it's irrelevant really!

OP posts:

DuchessOfSausage · 28/10/2023 19:42

Yes, they can get even worse.

Original poster

Radiatorjeans · 28/10/2023 19:42

And thank you for your responses.

OP posts:

DuchessOfSausage · 28/10/2023 19:46

"what does she have?"
Rose-tinted glasses probably

thedevilsgift · 28/10/2023 19:49

I’m in my 50s and I have never, ever known a shit man to change. They either stay shit or you find out that they were even shitter than you imagined.

She’s just his next victim. You must have looked happy with him at some times too.

Firsttimemum120 · 28/10/2023 19:49

No my child’s dad got 4 kids 3 different mums and treated everyone the same

thedevilsgift · 28/10/2023 19:50

And the shut men I have known are exactly the same with all their partners.

Catastrophejane · 28/10/2023 19:53

I sometimes wondered this- my ex appears happy with his new partner.

but I found him an insufferable, narcissistic arsehole.

I went to counselling thinking I was the problem and struggled with the idea that he’d move on and be the perfect partner with someone else. My therapist said he’d never change. years later I think she’s right, despite the fact that on the surface he looks happy.

Your ex partner’s new partner may think he’s great now, but give it time. He is still the same person- she either hasn’t seen it yet, or is deluding herself that he will change.

but to answer your question, I think they remain fundamentally selfish. They just get cleverer at hiding it.

Pallisers · 28/10/2023 19:57

No they don't change.

But some aspects of a person can change in different circumstances. For example a man (or woman) who just won't commit to a relationship long term can change on this if they meet the right person at the right time. It isn't so much changing as reaching the point in life when they want to do something different.

But someone mean/angry/jealous/inconsiderate is likely always going to be mean/angry/jealous/inconsiderate.

Op I bet his previous girlfriend if she saw a photo of your two when you were together would have had the same reaction "they look so happy, what was wrong with me, has he changed?" reality was it looked good momentarily on the outside but was crap inside.

Nemareus · 28/10/2023 19:59

People can behave differently in different relationships. If you date someone warm, cheerful, outgoing who is stable and nee de s little reassurance or validation and doesn’t mind being low on the list, or love bombs the man into committing them you get a different relationship to someone with higher needs and wanting reassurance. I am told when men are ready to settle, they will settle down with whoever they are dating at the time. Maybe they are faking. Who knows?

You say it was a dealbreaker. Focus on meeting someone yourself

StopStartStop · 28/10/2023 19:59

My ex husband had two further wives. WTF? I think that when people couple up, they bring out different things in each other - so I brought out the evil psychopathic bastard in him and the others didn't!

Nemareus · 28/10/2023 20:02

My ex is a different person in his new relationship but his new partner never argues, always agrees with him and always supports him, no matter how unreasonable he is 😀.

I have changed hugely throughout my life. What I have learned however, is to always remain calm, easygoing and cheerful and deal with challenges positively. So, yes people can change.

coodawoodashooda · 28/10/2023 20:03

My xh has a new woman who, outwardly, has similar qualities to me. I feel very sorry for her. She is a helpful babysitter for him at the moment. He's not going to be too mean, yet. These nasty men know what they are doing. No coincidences.

Watchkeys · 28/10/2023 20:04

StopStartStop · 28/10/2023 19:59

What happened to the first of the two, though? Did she die? If not, that relationship ended too, so presumably she didn't end up seeing him as Mr Perfect? And is he still with the third? Because if someone dies, the lack of divorce doesn't mean their relationship is happy, necessarily. It could just mean they hadn't split up yet, couldn't it?

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