Do shit men change?

[Radiatorjeans]

I'm late 30s and broke up with a man around 15 months ago of the same age. But my hand was forced because he was uncompromising, selfish, cold and ultimately did something intolerable which I'm not going into but proved I was waaaaaayyyyyy down his priority list. It crossed every boundary.
I was devastated and he didn't talk to me afterwards, even though I would've been keen to work through things. This, I recognise, was a mistake on my part and my initial decision to end things was correct.
Around 2 months later I heard through the grapevine he was dating.
Today I saw them and they look so happy. To clarify, I don't want him back although there are some residual feelings - mainly of hurt and anger. I couldn't trust him.
But it stung, because I was on my own and he seemed happy, so do these men change? Is it the wrong woman or are they fundamentally selfish?

I say no they don’t change.

caveats - sometimes they put you in some sort of box in your head.

In my 20s I got treated as a fuck buddy by a few men who went on to have stable proper relationships with women very similar to me and in my social circle. And when I bump into them now seem surprised I’ve got a happy and stable marriage and am a great mum. they’d put me in the ‘slit’ box because as a young feminist I had sex when I felt like it and for some of them that was ‘too soon’. Took me a while to realise that’s why I wasn’t considered girlfriend / wife material by them.

or sometimes it’s a personality clash. I know a couple where she found him emotionally unavailable and unsupportive. You could write that up here as an emotionally abusive from her perspective. But she is highly sensitive and needs a lot of emotional validation. He is happy with someone else now who seems not to need that. He’s not giving her something he didn’t give his ex, it’s that his new partner isn’t seeking something from him he can’t give. His ex stayed with him far too long hoping he’d be / give her something he’s not capable of.

I don’t think narcissistic or abusive men change, or not without a real recognition of the problem, and a huge concerted deliberate effort on their part to change, assisted by people very skilled in that area. It’s super rare. It’s an engrained part of their personality. The type of behaviour you describe maybe falls under this category from the little you’ve said.

I do think that a certain amount of thoughtlessness in a man may change over his lifetime as he learns from previous experiences, and with changing priorities and phases of life etc. Someone who would make a terrible partner at 19 because they are in party mode and at heart they aren’t ready to settle down for example, can therefore make a good partner in their 30s or 40s once they’ve decided they want a serious life partner and maybe a family etc.

Or after losing a partner they really loved due to cheating or taking someone for granted etc, they may resolve to never do that again in a future relationship etc. I don’t think the amount of serious and honest self-evaluation and responsibility-taking in someone who originally behaved poorly in one relationship is all that common, but it has been known to happen on occasion after serious soul searching.

I also think as a pp has said that some men may be terrible partners for some women but an ok partner for someone else. In that a new partner’s needs and wants in a relationship and what they are able to contribute may just happen to line up nicely with the man’s in a way that doesn’t challenge him or cost him a lot of effort. I remember I split up with an ex of mine largely because he was not marriage and children minded (unlike me), and he never prioritised me, instead choosing to hang out with his friends to do extreme sports anytime he had free time, whereas I wanted to spend some time with him alone too when we had free time. He also came across to me as a little emotionally cold, I think largely due to his upbringing (he was sent to boarding school as a young child and I met his extremely cold mother once!) whereas I am a warm and very emotionally driven and open person; I would probably recognise myself in the last poster’s description as being highly sensitive and needing a lot of emotional validation and he definitely wasn’t able to give that to me. Some woman who wasn’t bothered about marriage and kids and who was very into extreme sports herself and is super sociable/extroverted so didn’t mind tagging along and spending all their free time with a big group of people OR who was super independent to the point of being totally happy to spend most of their free time as a couple apart doing different things and rarely seeing him, would have worked fine for him, especially if they were unlike me not particularly sensitive or requiring a lot of overt emotional validation or physical affection. He wasn’t a shit person at heart in my opinion, we just had different life goals and we were incompatible in what we wanted/needed from a relationship and what we were bringing to the table.

I personally don’t really believe this thing that is commonly referenced on mumsnet of men just suddenly finding “the one” and transforming into the perfect man at that stage. I have never seen it in real life at all (if I’m honest I suspect it’s a myth that women who have eg eventually married a previously married man that they had an affair with, tell themselves to make them feel better about the shit people THEY are).

Decent people stay decent people, and shit people stay shit people for the most part. A shit partner for one person may be ok for someone else due to compatibility issues (or as others have pointed out simply lower standards for what a “shit man” is), a bit of maturity can kick in for someone who was a shit partner when younger, what people prioritise in life can change, and very occasionally a shit person (but generally not a narcissistic or abusive person) may do some deep soul searching and change their ways. I personally don’t think this is triggered by meeting “the one”.

No. After they are dumped, they move onto their next victim and up their game.

I personally think no.

I think an element of the shitness is either hidden by them or their next partner controls what happens to some degree.

People can bring out the best and worst in each other.

I will say that men especially can date women that they don’t even like and I mean not at all. but at that point they are convenient for them.

If they keep having ‘psycho’ girlfriends then no they haven’t changed.

Assholes do not change whether
Lovers, neighbours or bosses

Selfish men do not become less selfish

But they may be able to hide it better, or they maybe in a relationship with someone who enables their selfishness. They don't need to behave like a twat because they get everything they want. Some women don't recognise red flags, some women seek out qualities that others would label red flags

Sometime pictures can hide arguments. Maybe he hasn't been put in a situation that means he behaves selfishly yet, or where his shitty behaviour is evident, but that doesn't mean he won't

Ultimately for you that man was wrong. He didn't give you what you needed and didn't improve your life. Whether he's changed or not is none of your concern, you are well rid of him

It’s the wrong question.

Yes- people can change for the better. Some relationships are just inherently toxic and bring out the worst in otherwise good people. When we meet someone who is right for us, we can be much better people.

But you don’t want to know if someone CAN change, you want to know if HE has changed. And the answer is that you can’t know. Maybe this girl is better for him than you ever were. Maybe it’s not much different. Maybe it’s worse. And no one here can give you an answer.

You just need to accept that you weren’t right together regardless of what happened, and move on.

I very much doubt you were your best self with him given the few details you’ve given, so I would say you should hope that people can change and that when you find the right person you can be a better, happier version of yourself too.

But my hand was forced because he was uncompromising, selfish, cold and ultimately did something intolerable

Keep reading what you wrote. Someone who is unwilling to compromise and is selfish doesn't change. They may be at the stage where there is no need to compromise YET or their lives are not sufficiently merged so that the selfish behaviours haven't YET appeared.

If he was narcisstic then change isn't possible. A clue is how he treated you at the end, an abusive person shows no empathy or kindness. Accept that seeing him has triggered your self doubt but acknowledge that your feelings for ending the relationship were valid then and are still valid.

not in my experience.

So annoying though.

They can but rarely with the person they're shit to. Once they have that way of acting with that person, they very rarely change.

My late dad was an absolute nasty, bullying piece of work towards my mum and I (not as much to DSis though). He had affairs regularly and there was physical abuse towards mum particularly in the divorce. He had a furious, raging, vicious temper, especially with me who could do nothing right apparently.

Post divorce he stayed pretty much the same. He remarried and seemed a little better but still vile sometimes towards teen me when I was living with him. I recall him reducing me to a blubbering, cowering mess at 15 because I asked if he could help me get a CD out of the case as I was scared to break it and CDs were a relatively new thing. (Yes I'm old).
He treated his wife better than he did my mum because she didn't put up with his shit and would get him told the second he started.
They still divorced because he hadn't changed enough and she said sod that life.
I had grown up by then and just before I started my family I decided enough was enough and told him I was done with his shit and went NC. I think it showed him that I wouldn't take it anymore and he did behave much better when we did start to speak again but the first sign of him being nasty and I'd speak up. I'm pretty sure I once even said, "Who the hell do you think you're speaking to like that and why the fuck do you think I'm going to stand here and listen to it?"
Mostly, simply putting the phone down mid sentence was enough to let him know I'd realised that I didn't need to hold my phone to my ear and willingly be party to someone making me feel like shit.
By wife No.3 he was a different man. Maybe age? Maybe learning lessons? Maybe that his latest missus would feed his balls to him if he tried to speak to her like he'd spoken to previous wives? I don't know. I do know that my nasty, mean, bad tempered dad had gone. The new guy was lovely and we had over 15 years with him being a changed man and a great dad and grandfather.

See, I think a lot of it was this which stunned (and hurt!) me as it is simply not something I would do.

It's really made me mistrust men because he acted like he liked me but on reflection I ignored comments etc. I find this concept quite alien to how I would behave.

I couldn't maintain a relationship with someone I didn't like (and he made it clear, ultimately, I was nothing more than a nuisance), knowing they were invested in it.

I appreciate everyone's comments btw. It's clearly impacted me, and I do need to put it to bed, but I am grateful

Do shit men change?

Yes. They get worse.

No.

I think what is shit to you may not be to others. My DP he is not perfect but he had told me how rubbish he was with his ex wife. His family have also said he was selfish and moody. I thought this was red flags so preceded carefully.

he said he learned and had to compromise and hadn’t realised how much of a shit he was. He argued loads and was grumpy. He said he did work on himself when he got divorced before he met me. He says him and his ex couldn’t communicate which was the issue as he got frustrated.

we are great together. He can be selfish at times but he seems to double check himself and not be selfish - if that makes sense. We communicate if either of us are not happy to understand view points. He is generous, affectionate and lovely.

so suppose they can but friends if the realised they were a shit

No.

These are sll such great answers to OP’s question. I want to thank everyone for posting their experiences! I really learned a lot!

I'm happy for you. This seems to be a rather unique case of a person striving to improve and doing so @Urgsleepmoresleep

Agree that men do this. Sometimes it’s an emotionally unavailable/ avoidant thing.

if they have a relationship with someone they don’t like or aren’t that into emotionally there’s little to nothing at stake for them.

no risk of getting hurt emotionally (which I think men fear a lot and often don’t have the maturity to even recognise as they’ve been taught ‘men aren’t emotional’) so much by society.

and no need to make much effort for and for a while they get regular sex, the ego boost and social validation of a relationship, etc.

i also think many men don’t want to be surpassed so seek out easy going middle of the road women and avoid or back away from those that could match them - intellectually, career-wise, financially.

comments Katy Perry made about Russell Brand resurfaced recently where she observed that men say they want an equal partner but often when they get one it turns out they don’t.

or another variation Matthew Perry acknowledged he ditched Julia Roberts as he felt unworthy and that she was bound to see that and dump him so he got in first to avoid feeling vulnerable.

I'm sorry but I'm cynical. I suspect that he is still pretty shitty (reading between the lines) but it's not a deal breaker for you as it was for his ex. Perhaps you are compatible on a level they weren't that means you can overlook it.

Or perhaps I'm talking shit; I don't know you. But I've just never known a shit man to become a decent one. I've known a lot of subsequent partners who want to believe it.

No they don't change. Not do shit women.

@SurprisedWithAHorse maybe he isn’t shit and him and his ex were not compatible? I don’t know her just heard stories. Maybe we wants to try for me and is happy to compromise? Or maybe me and his ex have different views on a relationship

yup my DP can be shit, I can be Shit, but we are happy and can communicate