What is your view/experience on men being providers and SAHM (traditional)

[amanda2k4]

I have friends in the USA where it seems to be more common for the male to go to work full time, pay all the bills, the woman will ensure that there is a hot meal ready/peaceful life & clean house/children are looked after. I even know women that work full time and do not contribute to the bills, but there man still expects the traditional wife role duties. This seems to work well. I mean the woman get to spend there money on what they like... sounds good to me! lol however I always wonder at what expense does this come at? Is the husband an a$$hole? kicks off if the house is dirty / it is expected you do not socialise with friends etc..

I am interested in where people sit with this? Would you love to be a SAHM if your husband could afford - but run the risk of always relying on him for everything OR would you much prefer contributing your fair share and splitting up household chores and going to work?!

I see more and more of these posts where men keep complaining they want a "traditional woman" and they go to work 5 days a week to provide and ensure she has a roof over her head, all the bills are paid, she can stay home, but seem to expect a hot meal/no complaining/to do what they want outside of work in return - I mean is that fair enough? - would that work for you??

That’s a question for both men and women, and the answer would vary from person to person. If DH and I won the lottery so technically didn’t have to work again the chances are we wouldn’t although we would set up a charitable foundation of some sort (we’ve discussed this) and there would be an element of work involved in that.

Neither of us fancy relying on another person for money though - we’re both equally capable of working and sharing the household stuff.

“But what do women really want? Putting aside the aspect of doing it for financial security...let's say it was guaranteed that their dh would never leave them in the lurch or financially abuse them..would these working women choose to work or sah?”

This was my point upthread. This questions presumes that all women, deep down, want the same and that women only work so they can have financial independence. It also suggests that women are one homogeneous mass who all want the same thing, but we’re not - any more than men are. In fact, i find it troubling that you’re asking the question as if there is a single answer to it. Different women want different things.

Some of us (me included) would always want to work because of the personal and professional satisfaction we get from doing our jobs and I had the luck to be well-enough paid that I could afford childcare (although we only broke even for a few years but I was at a point of growing my career which made that okay). I absolutely love my DCs but I wouldn’t have made a good SAHM when they were little; I worked 4 days a week and was very hands on and involved when with them but it was fine for them to be in very competent childcare when I wasn’t. Other friends were SAHMs and fabulous at it.

But where someone is an SAHP, finances should be equally shared and the SAHP should be able to spend money on themselves without demonstrating that it’s a need rather than a want. It’s abusive to suggest otherwise.

Exactly the same set up as @Pashazade in every sense, partnership, I'm not career driven (shocking for MN) and eased the day to day stresses and burdens for Dh as I was doing life admin, school stuff etc. Full access to money, money in my own name, don't run anything I buy past him unless it is very expensive. Have my own car, go where I like when I like. Same as him.

I have been a sahm for almost 20 years. I did work for a short while after having my first child but I have a health condition that has massively improved since now working. It was a no brainer.

I get that it isn't for everyone. But it worked for us.

Well, speaking for myself - because nobody can speak for another person - I would want to work. My mother always worked too, two evenings a week to begin with, then 4 days a week when we were early teens. She loved her job. Work isn't just about money, it's about developing your skills, it's about having a social life, it's about opening up your world.

When my DC1 was born, at first I thought that it was a shame I'd have to go back to work - but after 4 months of baby groups I was going stir crazy. I missed them when I was back, of course I did - but working gave me the best of both worlds.

This is also still very common in the UK where one partner earns a very high wage but is out of the home for long hours and travelling a lot. Generally it works well if one parent wishes to be the sah parent. And it is usually the mother but not always.

We both work full time, but I would love if we could afford for one of us to stay home and run the household, preferably me. I like cooking and keeping a tidy home. Cleaning is not my number one, but I do not mind keeping a clean home, in opposition to dealing with the shithole it turns up after a whole week of us working long shifts and being exhausted.
It would be quite a dreamy life for me, getting up to make breakfast, sort laundry, drive DD to school, do shopping/ cleaning/ laundry/ cooking nice meals, sorting the paperwork and gardening. I bet you I would get time to sew and get into other hobbies. And get to drive my DD to her clubs.
It would just be a much tidier, easier life for all of us. They would come back to a meal, clean house, laundered clothes instead of more work. And we could spend evenings going for a walk, watching films together...., instead of coming back to dishes, laundry, cooking to do.
I think those of you who can afford it are very lucky to live this way.
But then, I do trust my DH not to become a dictator!

Thanks for reply! It is interesting how my friends husband makes resentful remarks - often reminding her that she hasn't paid a bill since they have lived together so she says. Its interesting how some men seem to take pride in providing, and some others resent there wives for it.

Also this " stuck in low paid work" is a bit of a red herring. I know Mumsnet is very middle class but come on!
A lot of women leave school, get a job full time, service industry, retail, care work, catering, etc and have a family. They return part time.This is because it is shift work and likely fits in with the husband's " main salary"
This work is notoriously low paid and I presume this is what you are referring to when you say low paid.. Women keep these industries going by returning to work part time to fit in with children. A lot of women simply cannot do a 9 to 5 full time five days a week job and afford wraparound childcare. A lot end up working these hours to desperately keep their hand in and after paid childcare are little better off. But STILL have the wife/domestic work.
There are no easy answers really..

Again can only refer to my friends husband, but she has a credit card for ESSENTIALS only - that he pays off. anything else he expects her to fund. he has said before she will never have access to his money as she is quite bad with money.

how would you feel if your husband did not put you on the house (preteding) that you did not contribue to it at all? eg no deposit and not working - would you still expect to be put on the deeds of the house? and also have free access to his money? My friend just has a credit card and he pays it off, but its only for essentials, not to treat herself.

But how can she fund non-essentials if she's not working? Does she have another source of income or does she just never buy non-essentials?

Yep same as @Pashazade here too

She can't - or she has to ask. but for me that's not really feeling part of a team. He would ask her if "she needs it" and if she doesn't, i guess she doesn't get it....

I'm a SAHM, and have been since DD1 was born.

DH has always done bedtimes, and we share household chores, as well as have a cleaner. I do 99% of the cooking, and all the laundry.

I also home educate our 3 children. DH appreciates my role, and understands that he doesn't have to take days off work to look after ill children because I'm home to do that.

We make all family decisions jointly - holidays etc. We're a team, I'm not his employee. I do, however, leave him to choose our home insurance etc because I hate dealing with that, in much the same way that I decide what we eat.

I hated my job. We might have made different decisions if I'd found a career that I enjoyed, but I didn't, and I love being at home with the children, teaching & learning with them.

That myth is what generations of women have been doing in my country for ages. It's only a problem if there is no support from the system - long working hours, no paid leave in case a child gets sick etc like in UK/USA. Or if there is unsupportive partner.
But just because someone finds it difficult in their country or in their marriage it doesn't mean that's the case everywhere or that it's not possible, or that's just women being wrong and wanting it all etc.

Your friend’s situation sounds dreadful.

Well, under UK law that would (fortunately) be very difficult to do without putting special arrangements in place.

Once you're married, it isn't 'his' money any more. And how is a marriage any good if only one partner is allowed to treat themselves?

Hmmmmm I think I’d work. I really enjoy my job and I already have holidays anytime my children are off so obviously I spend a lot of time with them but I also like a consistent ongoing income so even if I won Euromillions I’d still work.

My husband ran his own business from our home for years so there was always someone in the house for the children when they really needed that input. Both he and I attended special needs groups and parenting courses for the two with SN throughout the years. We have always just made it work.

@amanda2k4 - I would say your friend is being financially abused. She’s not safe as an SAHM with a partner like the one she has who undervalues her contribution and begrudges her treating herself. In her shoes, I would be looking to work if I could and probably trying to leave him. That is not how an SAHP arrangement should work.

I remember my DGM who didn’t go to university because she was going to be a wife and was one of the most miserable people I have ever known. And DGP was a great bloke and did everything right but she was utterly frustrated intellectually and an awful SAHP. No thank you!

Hi OP, American woman here but been living in the UK enough time to understand it's cultural differences, one of them being the attitude towards men and marriage, it's all very er..." laissez faire" over this side of the Atlantic. American women tend to value money more than British, no American woman would be caught dead having kids or moving in with a partner without marriage papers (unless you come from a poor background). An American woman who moves in with a man and plans to start a family has made sure a) the guy can provide for a family and b) she has a ring other finger, any other option will not be considered. I see too many British women living with men unmarried, chasing the guy to commit or marry and even having children (which I think it's nuts). So yes, American women tend to protect themselves financially and legally when it comes to partnerships and having children, something that European women fail at. Maybe it's because US is a very capitalistic culture or maybe it's because we don't have a social net/universal credit to fall when things go awry.

I think being a SAHP suits very few people, male or female.

I generally see it as a sign someone just hasn't found the right career/job for them.

I think you only have to read the endless, exceptionally sad posts on here where SAHMs are stuck in unfaithful, miserable or abusive relationships because they have no career or income of their own, or those posts where they have been dumped and are in a hopeless, financially miserable position, because they have no job or income or career, to see why I would and will always advise my daughters to ensure that they are never dependent on a man for their financial security. I cannot see why you would leave school now with no plans for your own future - why would you rely on a man to do that? (And that's leaving aside any personal fulfillment you may get from working)

Yes it's not perfect - and working women don't have it all, but that's because of the inequality in society that continues to exist which expects women to pick up the majority of the caring responsibilities for their children or their parents or for disabled family members.

This is right up there with rape in marriage.

Hell.

If I could be financially secure without working I would not work full time but I'd want to do something to be around people other than my family. I'm enjoying studying right now so maybe I'd be one of those perpetual students, always moving onto studying something new after finishing one course.