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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SiL openly dismissed my abuse history... where on earth do I go from here?

115 replies

deppart01 · 13/10/2023 16:52

Name change in case of being outed. Will try and keep it brief.

Been with DH 10 years, married for 6. His sister has always been a bit of a tricky character, likes to have controversial opinions and debate. Up 'til now it's been something I notice but mostly ignore.

She recently posted a long statement on social media regarding the recent Russell Brand documentary. (She believes he's innocent, I'm less convinced. I can still respect her right to have a different view than mine even if I don't agree). However the post went well beyond just discrediting the women who have come forward in the documentary. She started openly questioning in the event that the assaults in the documentary did happen, who is really accountable for a sexual assault when someone "knowingly walks down a risky path with warning signs everywhere". Then gives the opinion that as RB has substance abuse issues and a mental health diagnosis so he's not responsible for his actions anyway and is instead a victim of the media.

I was sexually abused before I met DH (by someone who was also a substance abuser and had MH diagnoses, so there is some notable overlap to RB). SiL is one of a handful of people who knows this. I found her post utterly triggering and frankly couldn't believe her stance around accountability. I felt like she was essentially openly saying that being assaulted was my fault. I spent the next two weeks feeling really low and preoccupied by it all. I definitely felt like it was something that had ruptured my relationship with her, so decided to reach out to her in the hope of talking it through and moving forward.

Sent a private message to her explaining how I felt really vulnerable bringing it up... but also how triggered I'd found that post given my experience, but emphasised I didn't think she'd purposefully tried to say anything insensitive. She sends back a long and furious message basically saying how dare I suggest she'd ever be insensitive to victims of sexual abuse and she isn't. She said if I'd approached this as a "chilled conversation" she'd have been happy to discuss... ?because most people love discussing their trauma in a casual manner(!)?

DH suggested I try and talk to her on the phone, as it's hard over messenger. So I sent a short reply, emphasising I don't think she's a bad person and I really don't think she knowingly meant to come across as she did, but I had found that post really hard to read and I was open to chatting about it instead if that's what she wanted.

So then she replies saying "To be honest (using my full name that she hasn't used in 10 years), I don't care if you find my views triggering. I don't know what your motive was in targeting a member of this family. It's a massive overstep on your part."

So I spent the day crying non-stop, feeling the lowest I've felt in years to the point I wanted to self-harm, which I also haven't done in years. I've never felt so dismissed and silenced by anyone other than my abuser. I showed DH the message and he tried to explain it as maybe she's forgotten I have lived experience of sexual assault. I said she definitely knows. All I know after that is he messaged her to confirm that she knew this and whatever she said left him to angry to continue to speak to her.

So now I feel utterly stuck. If this was anyone else I'd stop having any contact with them. I've lost all trust and respect for her, her views of victim blaming and her response to me have been incredibly painful. I feel if we were talking about my Best Interests then I wouldn't have any contact with her again. But I know doing this would hurt my husband (who grew up with members of the family cut off for long periods and still resents this to this day), our children, my nieces, my MiL and FiL. So I feel like maybe I have to find a way to physically tolerate her presence but this also feels like a miserable way to spend all family meet ups going forward.

Any advice or anyone been in a similar position on how to manage it?

OP posts:
goldfootball · 14/10/2023 13:48

OP I do not think you wee wrong or in appropriate to message her after her initial Facebook post. Calling out victim blaming is hard and you did it even when it was potentially going to become very awkward which is a GOOD THING. I cannot understand why so many posters are squeamish about this. Her attitude towards survivors of SA sounds horrible and her family, including your husband, ought to be challenging her on it regardless of if they know your history.

Her ‘olive branch’ is a shitty stick. I think taking a break from her is completely understandable and if it did have an impact on ‘the family’ that is up to her to apologise for. I would not want to be around her even if I wasn’t as directly impacted as you have been by her. To me this isn’t ‘a difference of views’ she’s essentially said she blames victims of sexual assault for what happened to them which is horrible.

Orio2023 · 14/10/2023 13:51

Sadly nearly every woman I know has been sexually assaulted at some point. Including myself. Like many others I find the subject upsetting and triggering both in real life and on line. That’s my responsibility. It’s my problem.

What you’re doing is not ok. You’ve no right to centre yourself in someone else’s discussion and make it all about you. You should not have messaged her at all. Nobody has to tip toe round your triggered feelings. Even the title of your post is misleading. At no point did she dismiss your abuse history at all.

Sorry op, but if I was your Sil I would cut you off. I would not be accepting of your misplaced anger and your me me me attitude.

goldfootball · 14/10/2023 13:54

Orio2023 · 14/10/2023 13:51

Sadly nearly every woman I know has been sexually assaulted at some point. Including myself. Like many others I find the subject upsetting and triggering both in real life and on line. That’s my responsibility. It’s my problem.

What you’re doing is not ok. You’ve no right to centre yourself in someone else’s discussion and make it all about you. You should not have messaged her at all. Nobody has to tip toe round your triggered feelings. Even the title of your post is misleading. At no point did she dismiss your abuse history at all.

Sorry op, but if I was your Sil I would cut you off. I would not be accepting of your misplaced anger and your me me me attitude.

Well if SIL cut OP off that would work out brilliantly. I find your attitude in your posts breathtakingly awful.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 14/10/2023 13:57

Wow, I’m sorry OP and I know how you feel - these kind of attitudes towars SA victims trigger me too 💐 I would now put some distance between you and avoid her from now on.

Its5656 · 14/10/2023 14:00

I don't go along with the everybody is entitled to their own opinion way of thinking.
Along with racists I will not be around people who blame women for the behaviour of sexual predators.. people like your sister in law are not stating an opinion, they are smearing their ugly insensitive lies on (in this example Facebook) with little regard to who they are upsetting.

Side note, I can't actually believe that some still believe that the HR Department at Pheizer planned this campaign to bring down Russell sodding Brand.. He isn't that important!!!

Orio2023 · 14/10/2023 14:08

I find your attitude in your posts breathtakingly awful.

The op has said several times, both on here and to the sil that she knows it wasn’t about her and that she knows she didn’t deliberately say anything insensitive, and that she knows she’s not a bad person.

Sil is either a nasty victim blaming bitch, like the op implies, or she has not deliberately said anything insensitive, like the op implies.

It cant be both.

deppart01 · 14/10/2023 14:19

My SiL has acted insensitively (possibly without intending to), and her views are also victim blaming. There's a nice example of how it can be both @Orio2023 . I've never called her nasty, or a bitch. Those are your words.

OP posts:
Whydoifeelthisway · 14/10/2023 14:35

@deppart01 she’s an idiot and sounds pretty unhinged.

the conspiracy theory brigade seem to feel that it makes them clever to question everything remotely fitting a ‘mainstream’ or obvious conclusion.

and yet, they’ll argue for hours that birds aren’t real 🤷‍♀️

I reckon she’s doubled down because she knows she’s wrong. I bet she’s also a self described empath??

itsmyp4rty · 14/10/2023 14:40

I think OP that her views on RB and the post she put up should have made it clear to you that this is not a person to reason with or explain your situation to or to talk about your abuse with. You will not change her beliefs and she is not interested in listening to others experiences.

As a result the best thing to do would have been to hide the post and have as little to do with her as possible. She has shown you her colours and by engaging with her you were only ever going to hurt yourself.

You do not have to do anything now that you don't feel comfortable doing. Your husband is a big boy and if he wants to go on family trips and you don't then he is perfectly able to go without you. It is perfectly possible for you all to see his family when SIL isn't there. Do what's right for you now.

GilberMarkham · 14/10/2023 15:23

FloofCloud · 14/10/2023 13:17

Wow, well her angry defensiveness says a lot!! And putting herself as the victim is typical narc behaviour. I'm very sorry about your trauma, you're a survivor, take strength in your survival skills and feel sorry for your SIL foe her ignorance

I agree - she sounds like a narcissist.

She's definitely got a screw loose even if she isn't.

Don't bother engaging with her.

Keep it minimal, light and breezy from now on.

Ime these types don't get any less crazy and they age, usually more so ...... You're going to have to deploy eye rolling mode and not get involved in debate with her.

saraclara · 14/10/2023 17:48

I hate the way many mumsnetters like to stoke the fire of breakdowns in family relationships, knowing that they're not the ones who are going to get burned.

So many posters on here want OP to add petrol to the fire, despite the effect it will have on her husband her children, and general family relationships, possibly for ever.

SIL is without doubt, wrong and somewhat stupid. But as OP has said herself, she wasn't being personally vindictive or intentionally hurtful to her unlike some of the family members we read about on this forum.

Furthermore, even if her olive branch is somewhat self serving, at lest she offered one. Again, not often the case with other stories we read about on here.

So yes, I disagree with everyone whose saying "cut her off" "refuse to go on the holiday" etc. There's a wider family caught up on this, and OP made a mistake of her own in messaging rather than talking (or possibly in engaging with SIL at all on this).

And I genuinely think that the fall out will damage OP most of all, if she pours the petrol on.

So while posters might enjoy winding things up, they don't really have your welfare at heart in my opinion, @deppart01

deppart01 · 14/10/2023 18:53

Yes @Whydoifeelthisway !! She just keeps saying "I'm an incredibly empathetic person"... Not once in any of her exchanges with me or in that three page document she sent has she shown an ounce of empathy!

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 14/10/2023 18:56

deppart01 · 13/10/2023 17:11

Thanks @MidnightOnceMore . We were meant to be booking a holiday all together this week for my in-law's anniversary next year. I just don't think I can face committing to anything at this stage. I think you're right about holding back.

It's so hard seeing DH so hurt by her behaviour towards me. I know logically it's not my fault, but it does make me feel guilty for having been abused and having spoken up about my feelings. :(

It's up to her to apologise.

It's up to your DH sort.

If she doesn't apologise, you don't go and he can go by himself .

It's really very simple.

Whydoifeelthisway · 14/10/2023 19:49

deppart01 · 14/10/2023 18:53

Yes @Whydoifeelthisway !! She just keeps saying "I'm an incredibly empathetic person"... Not once in any of her exchanges with me or in that three page document she sent has she shown an ounce of empathy!

I have a relative like this. It’s very difficult as - like you- I feel bad asking other family members to cut contact. If it was just me I would.

best thing to do is keep your distance. Don’t give them ammunition. I bet many others in your DH’s family recognise that she’s a pain in the arse.

what she has said is horrific, but ignore her. You can’t control her, but you can control your reaction to her.

SarahC50 · 14/10/2023 22:35

"I'm an incredibly empathic person" says sil. Then proceeds to trample all over you and your feelings as well as victim blaming. It's so awful it would be funny were it not for the current scenario.

I once had a disagreement with a friend and she stated she was the "kindest person she knew" despite behaving in a very unkind way.

The more you share about sil the more clear it becomes that she has a problematic personality. Put in place some firm boundaries to protect yourself moving forward as she's shown you who she is and she will hurt and behave badly again x

CheekyHobson · 14/10/2023 23:37

"I'm an incredibly empathic person" says sil.

For a celebrity she will likely never meet, but not for someone in her own real-life family. 🙄

I think your reaction to her post was perfectly fair and understandable. However I do think you made a mistake in approaching her about it, even though your intent (to resolve what you felt was a rupture in your relationship resulting from her victim-blaming views) was good.

When someone openly broadcasts extreme views that can be easily understood as hurtful to certain groups of people, there is almost never any point in hoping that your personal relationship will trigger them to revise their views to be more empathetic, even though I know how tempting it is to believe it might.

Yes, your relationship has been ruptured by her lack of empathy, and that's an uncomfortable and disappointing experience for you, but rather than feeling the need to approach the person who has said things that hurt you so they can change, a better approach is to see it as a learning experience for yourself about who is a 'safe' person for you and who is not.

I know it may feel somewhat unsatisfactory and 'unresolved' to simply put increased distance between yourself and someone with incompatible views to yours, especially as that person may be so self-absorbed as to not even notice the increased distance, but that is almost always the best approach. It protects you and minimises conflict.

When people show you who they are, believe them.

deppart01 · 15/10/2023 00:46

Thanks @CheekyHobson. Your post makes a lot of sense to me. I didn't seek to change her views (as I agree there's no point arguing with it), but I confess I had hoped that opening her eyes to how publicly posting her views might affect people. (Sadly 1 in 4 of her female Facebook friends have or will experience sexual harassment or assault at some stage in their adult lives. I'm willing to bet it wasn't just me who found some of her views abhorrent to read). She constantly talks about being really empathetic, although after this experience when I look back on the last 10 years I've known her I realise she really isn't, and not just in this context.

I agree with all the people who have said I can't change her, but I can put space in place for now and then go forward knowing she's not a person to trust or to really share any of myself with going forward.

If one day she does show some genuine insight into all this I'm open to having a discussion with her. But as others have said, just because she's reached out doesn't mean I have to decide to say everything feels ok. I'll never view her in the same way again, but hope to get to a place of being able to be around her and finding my new boundaries within that.

OP posts:
OhcantthInkofaname · 15/10/2023 01:38

I fully support you. I think you need to avoid her for a while. Definitely do not make
holiday plans.

Some of the people answering on here today seems somewhat like your sil. They discount Sexual assault and the effect it has on the victim. Pay them no mind.

RantyAnty · 15/10/2023 02:12

3 pages of more doubling down from her doesn't seem like an olive branch.

If she has any empathy she would have apologized to you when you first contacted her and she wouldn't have sent H those vile messages.

She's shown her true colors as a a loose wingnut who can't be trusted and kicks off at the tiniest thing. You DH insistance at keeping the family together at all costs seems to ignore the reasons people cut contact in the first place.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 15/10/2023 15:04

I’m afraid that due to bitter experience, when someone refers to themselves as a ‘super empath/empath’ I see it as a red flag.

deppart01 · 15/10/2023 18:01

RedToothBrush · 14/10/2023 18:56

It's up to her to apologise.

It's up to your DH sort.

If she doesn't apologise, you don't go and he can go by himself .

It's really very simple.

I agree. Unfortunately I truly don't think she'll ever apologise. She's unable to see herself as having behaved insensitively/ poorly in any way.
Apparently she's said to DH in a message this morning she doesn't think there's any need for us to talk about my feelings, so at least that gives me my answer at the moment. I've encouraged DH to repair their relationship if he wants to and to continue to see her whenever he wants to, Ibut also explained I don't view myself as having a relationship with SiL at this moment in time and need space from her.

OP posts:
deppart01 · 15/10/2023 18:50

OhcantthInkofaname · 15/10/2023 01:38

I fully support you. I think you need to avoid her for a while. Definitely do not make
holiday plans.

Some of the people answering on here today seems somewhat like your sil. They discount Sexual assault and the effect it has on the victim. Pay them no mind.

Thank you. I'm taking the posts that disagree with my actions as a positive in that it really affirms my stance- I'm fine with other people having different views to my own and can choose with online strangers which posts to give more weight to or which to acknowledge a view and then move along. But when it's a relationship I'm actually invested in maintaining (ie SiL!) I feel more of a pull not to just ignore views that are frankly deeply offensive, never mind the personal element for me.

I just feel gutted about the whole situation as I truly don't think I'll ever be able to see her in the same way again after this. Keep having to remind myself it's all very 'raw' as it were. I feel bad for DH's wider family, who will also feel discomfort if I continue to maintain a distance. Equally I'm sure SiL will have fed them a nicely biased account that paints me 100% as persecutor and her as a victim, so I'll have to find a way to accept that if it transpires to be the case.

OP posts:
Millybob · 15/10/2023 19:02

She is clearly a very stupid woman, attention-seeking on social media. So what really baffles me is why you confided in her about your abuse in the first place, and why you follow her on facebook? You are giving her far too much space in your head. The idiots are out there - you don't have to engage with them. Keep her at arms' length, don't go on holiday with her and give her a nod across a crowded room at weddings and funerals, if you must. Doesn't matter what she thinks about Russell Brand - he can go hang for all you care.

Ladyj84 · 15/10/2023 20:02

Having also come from an abusive childhood I personally would not have involved myself with that post. Others are allowed there opinions, thoughts without survivors thinking there having a go or dig. Tbh I think your hubby was right she wouldn't have put it to hurt you it's a general media convo and the best thing of you found it upsetting was to ignore and not bother to bring it up. If it was me now I would be calling her and having a proper chat as she most likely did not realise the affect it would have and maybe you didn't realise how much it still bothers you. Either way make it up seems like your both ok mostly:)