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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SiL openly dismissed my abuse history... where on earth do I go from here?

115 replies

deppart01 · 13/10/2023 16:52

Name change in case of being outed. Will try and keep it brief.

Been with DH 10 years, married for 6. His sister has always been a bit of a tricky character, likes to have controversial opinions and debate. Up 'til now it's been something I notice but mostly ignore.

She recently posted a long statement on social media regarding the recent Russell Brand documentary. (She believes he's innocent, I'm less convinced. I can still respect her right to have a different view than mine even if I don't agree). However the post went well beyond just discrediting the women who have come forward in the documentary. She started openly questioning in the event that the assaults in the documentary did happen, who is really accountable for a sexual assault when someone "knowingly walks down a risky path with warning signs everywhere". Then gives the opinion that as RB has substance abuse issues and a mental health diagnosis so he's not responsible for his actions anyway and is instead a victim of the media.

I was sexually abused before I met DH (by someone who was also a substance abuser and had MH diagnoses, so there is some notable overlap to RB). SiL is one of a handful of people who knows this. I found her post utterly triggering and frankly couldn't believe her stance around accountability. I felt like she was essentially openly saying that being assaulted was my fault. I spent the next two weeks feeling really low and preoccupied by it all. I definitely felt like it was something that had ruptured my relationship with her, so decided to reach out to her in the hope of talking it through and moving forward.

Sent a private message to her explaining how I felt really vulnerable bringing it up... but also how triggered I'd found that post given my experience, but emphasised I didn't think she'd purposefully tried to say anything insensitive. She sends back a long and furious message basically saying how dare I suggest she'd ever be insensitive to victims of sexual abuse and she isn't. She said if I'd approached this as a "chilled conversation" she'd have been happy to discuss... ?because most people love discussing their trauma in a casual manner(!)?

DH suggested I try and talk to her on the phone, as it's hard over messenger. So I sent a short reply, emphasising I don't think she's a bad person and I really don't think she knowingly meant to come across as she did, but I had found that post really hard to read and I was open to chatting about it instead if that's what she wanted.

So then she replies saying "To be honest (using my full name that she hasn't used in 10 years), I don't care if you find my views triggering. I don't know what your motive was in targeting a member of this family. It's a massive overstep on your part."

So I spent the day crying non-stop, feeling the lowest I've felt in years to the point I wanted to self-harm, which I also haven't done in years. I've never felt so dismissed and silenced by anyone other than my abuser. I showed DH the message and he tried to explain it as maybe she's forgotten I have lived experience of sexual assault. I said she definitely knows. All I know after that is he messaged her to confirm that she knew this and whatever she said left him to angry to continue to speak to her.

So now I feel utterly stuck. If this was anyone else I'd stop having any contact with them. I've lost all trust and respect for her, her views of victim blaming and her response to me have been incredibly painful. I feel if we were talking about my Best Interests then I wouldn't have any contact with her again. But I know doing this would hurt my husband (who grew up with members of the family cut off for long periods and still resents this to this day), our children, my nieces, my MiL and FiL. So I feel like maybe I have to find a way to physically tolerate her presence but this also feels like a miserable way to spend all family meet ups going forward.

Any advice or anyone been in a similar position on how to manage it?

OP posts:
QueenofTerrasen · 13/10/2023 19:43

Orio2023 · 13/10/2023 19:04

There’s no need for blocking at all. Your SIL was discussing a news issue, as many people are. She has said nothing at all about you or your experience. You were wrong to contact her and I would be very annoyed in your Sil shoes. What response did you want when you contacted her? Because you said directly to her that you didn’t think she’d purposely said anything insensitive and that you know she didn’t mean to come across as she did.

So you acknowledge she wasn’t implying anything about you or being malicious. It was wrong of you to blame her for your triggered feelings.

The fact that you have spent two weeks crying and thinking about self harming indicates you need support around this issue. Going no contact and causing issues in the extended family isn't going to help matters.

It is easy enough to unfollow someone if you don’t agree with their veiws.

I'm sorry but I agree with this.
I also suffered SA, so I understand the trauma and how complex it is, but it's her post and opinion, it wasn't directed at you. You chose to read it all, and I don't think messaging and confronting her was the right thing to do at all.
I do hope you're ok, and I encourage you to seek further support Flowers

SarahC50 · 13/10/2023 19:56

I too suffered sexual abuse and I am so sorry this has happened. Your sil is gaslighting you. She has voiced offensive victim blaming views and when this has been pointed out to her suddenly you are the baddie and she is the victim. I'm sorry to say this but she sounds a ghastly woman. I wouldn't want my children spending time with a woman who voices such damaging views as her.
She will never back down or admit the pain and hurt she has caused you. You will be painted as difficult and over sensitive. I think it is going to be really difficult.
I'm so sorry and I understand how you felt the urge to self harm. Try not to react or respond to anything she says in the coming weeks. Do things to self soothe and make you feel safe. Look after yourself and protect your mental health. I'm so sorry you have experienced this vile attack from family x

deppart01 · 13/10/2023 22:46

Oh my God I wrote a huge reply and Mumsnet helpfully crashed just before I posted it. (It's been a nightmare tonight, I've been trying to respond for ages and it keeps crashing).

Thanks for all the replies, I've read them all. I didn't put a lot of context in the OP as I didn't want to create a novel! But for further clarification:

  • I do feel DH is being, and has been, very supportive. His desire for me to speak to SiL comes from his own deep (and understandable) fears of family members falling out to the point that they go no contact. He understood and respected my position as soon as I said given the last message I feel it's too raw for me to speak to her right now. He feels embarrassed of the way she's spoken to me and her views in the FB post. Apparently she sent him some particularly vile messages too. He is currently questioning his own relationship with her.
  • I take on board the comments that say it was inappropriate of me to either take offence or contact her about it. It was always going to be an uncomfortable exchange, but to help explain further... I never thought the post was about me (this might have been clumsy phrasing on my part in the OP). But based on the views/logic she publicly put forward, it was clear she'd view me as being accountable to some degree for what happened to me, which I'm not. And it's deeply upsetting to know that by her own position she thinks that.

I did debate whether and how to raise it with her. Ultimately, if a stranger airs victim blaming views I can write it off as an ignorant perspective and move on. But this wasn't a stranger, it's a member of my 'family' who I have a positive relationship with. Her views changed how I felt about her and our relationship, so I felt it was important to be open with her, so that we could discuss it and work through it. I also believe we need to be cautious about sending a message that when trauma victims are hurt by the actions of someone else in relation to trauma that the only appropriate option is to stay silent.

  • In relation to the point above: in my family, if someone upsets someone else we raise it, talk it through from both sides and consequently repair any ruptures. It's safe to talk about feeling upset and our immediate stance tends to be along the lines (of a slightly more emoted version) of "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you, explain what's happened so I can understand why you're feeling hurt". Safe to say this isn't remotely how my SiL views upset, which I now know.
  • In case it wasn't clear, the holiday wouldn't be until next spring, but the deadline for booking it is this week. Spring is a long time away, but now feels very awkward to be negotiating available dates/ making plans.
  • Re: her comment about family I don't really understand it either. My best guesses are either she doesn't see me as family, so it's not ok for me to challenge anything. Or she does see me as family and it's not ok for family to challenge anything said within the family?

Thank you @SarahC50@SarahC50, I think your recent post captures a lot of what I'm feeling. I'm really sorry you've had the experiences you've had too.

OP posts:
SunflowerTed · 13/10/2023 23:44

I wish you all the best moving forward xxx

deppart01 · 14/10/2023 07:39

Late last night SiL called me (I missed the call) and then sent DH a very long message. It's mostly defending her fb post (with some backtracking/ recognition it wasn't neutral, which she had angrily insisted it was in her message to me, so that's something of a change). She maintains she'd never dismiss a victim's view...despite having done it both in her post and then literally to me.

DH says it's an olive branch. I do recognise it's an attempt to reach out, but there's literally no recognition of my feelings or any form of apology for how she spoke to me. I've said I need space from her right now. Partly because I'm scared of her calling and just giving me more anger / inability to listen to anything I have to say. If she can show any insight into behaved inappropriately towards me in her message or shows that she can listen then I'll reconsider.

OP posts:
Loopytiles · 14/10/2023 07:47

Strongly disagree with posters suggesting that SIL was reasonable and / or that OP is in the wrong for having expressed her thoughts and feelings about it or decided to change her relationship / time with SIL.

SIL broadcast strong views on a topic she knows is sensitive for OP. When OP expressed her - entirely understandable - thoughts about that SIL responded with nasty comments.

ZebraD · 14/10/2023 07:52

I don’t think you should have responded to her. She wasn’t talking about you yet you have taken it personal so she has been defensive. Russell Brand has been allegedly targeted because of his voice against big pharma so of course people will have very different views about that situation versus yours.
I think apologise to the sister to smooth things over. She can’t be the target because you were abused. I can understand her upset and I am guessing that things got heated with both of you.

ZebraD · 14/10/2023 07:54

Loopytiles · 14/10/2023 07:47

Strongly disagree with posters suggesting that SIL was reasonable and / or that OP is in the wrong for having expressed her thoughts and feelings about it or decided to change her relationship / time with SIL.

SIL broadcast strong views on a topic she knows is sensitive for OP. When OP expressed her - entirely understandable - thoughts about that SIL responded with nasty comments.

You can’t assume she was even thinking about OP when she wrote the post.

BethDuttonsTwin · 14/10/2023 07:58

Orio2023 · 13/10/2023 17:18

Her post was inappropriate. Your response was also inappropriate. The post wasn’t about you in any way and she’s not responsible for the feelings it’s brought up.

This.

BethDuttonsTwin · 14/10/2023 08:01

deppart01 · 14/10/2023 07:39

Late last night SiL called me (I missed the call) and then sent DH a very long message. It's mostly defending her fb post (with some backtracking/ recognition it wasn't neutral, which she had angrily insisted it was in her message to me, so that's something of a change). She maintains she'd never dismiss a victim's view...despite having done it both in her post and then literally to me.

DH says it's an olive branch. I do recognise it's an attempt to reach out, but there's literally no recognition of my feelings or any form of apology for how she spoke to me. I've said I need space from her right now. Partly because I'm scared of her calling and just giving me more anger / inability to listen to anything I have to say. If she can show any insight into behaved inappropriately towards me in her message or shows that she can listen then I'll reconsider.

You overreacted and tried to make her opinions personal to you. I'd have been irritated by you too, though I hope would have been kinder in my response to you. This situation is on you as well. You really should just let it go tbh not keep dragging out for months even years. You don't have to like her much and your personal feelings about her are you're own and you're entitled to them but she is too.

Mistressanne · 14/10/2023 08:01

ZebraD · 14/10/2023 07:52

I don’t think you should have responded to her. She wasn’t talking about you yet you have taken it personal so she has been defensive. Russell Brand has been allegedly targeted because of his voice against big pharma so of course people will have very different views about that situation versus yours.
I think apologise to the sister to smooth things over. She can’t be the target because you were abused. I can understand her upset and I am guessing that things got heated with both of you.

Edited

Are you mad?
Do you really believe that RB was targeted because of his you tube channel ?
No op shouldn’t apologise to her sil.
Her sil, however innocently, was so keen to air her nasty views that she didn’t even stop to think about op.
Sil is self absorbed and a victim blamer.
And you sound like a victim blamer too.

saraclara · 14/10/2023 08:01

DH says it's an olive branch

It is. You told her that you understood that she didn't intend it to be personal, so now you need to act on your words, for your own sake and for your family's. You don't have to see her yet, but you do need to respond somehow, even if it's through your partner, to demonstrate that you recognise her effort to put things right.

Otherwise this will run and run, with its own detrimental effect on your health.

BettyPhuckzer · 14/10/2023 08:02

SIL wrote a FB post

You felt triggered by the post and upset that SIL wrote the post knowing that you might be triggered

I dont imagine SIL even considered you when she wrote the post

You then contacted her and she became defensive and angry - perhaps realising that she COULD have considered you when she wrote the post

She has now reached out with an olive branch but you don't feel that this is enough

I think SIL should put you into her restricted on FB if she intends to continue to think as she thinks (which is triggering for you)

I think you should have some therapy (more therapy?) to help you

I think that you should distance yourself from anyone who triggers you until you feel able to deal with their opinions without upsetting yourself

Loopytiles · 14/10/2023 08:03

doubt SIL WAS thinking about OP, that’s part of the problem, that she didn’t join any dots! it was insensitive, at best.

IhearyouClemFandango · 14/10/2023 08:08

BettyPhuckzer · 14/10/2023 08:02

SIL wrote a FB post

You felt triggered by the post and upset that SIL wrote the post knowing that you might be triggered

I dont imagine SIL even considered you when she wrote the post

You then contacted her and she became defensive and angry - perhaps realising that she COULD have considered you when she wrote the post

She has now reached out with an olive branch but you don't feel that this is enough

I think SIL should put you into her restricted on FB if she intends to continue to think as she thinks (which is triggering for you)

I think you should have some therapy (more therapy?) to help you

I think that you should distance yourself from anyone who triggers you until you feel able to deal with their opinions without upsetting yourself

This.

Loopytiles · 14/10/2023 08:08

SIL’s broadcast on social media included explicit disbelief of women alleging sexual assault and rape, victim blaming, and the suggestion that men with MH issues / under pressure are not responsible for their actions.

MintJulia · 14/10/2023 08:10

Stop communicating with her. There is no need for you to share anything with her, her views are irrelevant. Block her on all fronts.

Definitely don't go on the holiday. Book to go somewhere with your DH instead.

Life is too short to waste on people who make you so unhappy.

ThreeLocusts · 14/10/2023 08:14

OP I don't think it was inappropriate for you to respond to this victim blaming. SiL sounds difficult to say the least- actually, sounds horribly self-righteous and tactless.

But what matters now is that you can move on from this. Protect yourself. Don't engage if it feels difficult. No need to plan any holidays now.

And DH may have to be the go between whether he likes it or not. All the best.

Totalwasteofpaper · 14/10/2023 08:21

I think you should "accept" the olive branch. You don't have to be gushing but just say something like it's very raw and emotive for you and you appreciate her acknowledging it wasn't a neutral post and you'd like to move past this.

You don't have to fully mean it but family is (unfortunately) forever.
Get things on an even keel, be cordial but stay distance yourself.

Do not go on holiday with her. Ever.

She is a dick. But honestly, you should NOT put so much weight on her opinion when she's clearly an arsehole. Feeling like selfharming because she has some brainwashed views on RB is not a proportional response. That bit is something you control. On that basis I agree with others on more therapy.

buffyajp · 14/10/2023 08:25

What a bunch of horrible replies on here. How dare anyone tell a victim of sexual abuse how they should react. No wonder women keep quiet with responses like some of these. Every abuse victim is an individual so just because some can manage to forgive abusers or their apologists it doesn’t mean every victim has too. Op I am so sorry for what has happened to you. Unfortunately I have been abused and raped too and I find your sils post horrific and completely insensitive regardless of her ‘right’ to post and opinion. I personally would block or go very low contact. You need to protect yourself and your mental health first. Your husband should support you in this is

theduchessofspork · 14/10/2023 08:27

So sorry this happened to you.

Anyone who writes the sort of post you describe your SIL having written about RB, is an idiot, over invested in celeb lives, and with a lot of internalised misogyny. You might talk about that case in a socio-political sense, eg how abusive behaviour was socially normalised, or around the issue of trial by media, but getting invested in what RB is guilty of is bizarre.

Given her general idiocy, it seems unlikely the post was about you, so it was unwise to contact her in a heated way. You might have reasonably brought it up at a later date when the dust had settled.

Clearly her views are nuts, but you are both unreasonable and childish in the way you’ve been communicating.

You need to take care of yourself as a priority, and then your DH, so dropping the family holiday idea and just seeing her at family events and keeping it surface level is the right thing to do.

There’s no cure for stupid, so perhaps she can’t help herself - anyway you can’t change other people. However for yourself, you can practice taking a pause when you think something is about you and you want to react - often it isn’t, and it’s either better to leave it, or tackle it in a while when a heated moment has passed. I don’t say this to negate your terrible experience, but because it will help avoid a situation like this in future.

theduchessofspork · 14/10/2023 08:30

ZebraD · 14/10/2023 07:52

I don’t think you should have responded to her. She wasn’t talking about you yet you have taken it personal so she has been defensive. Russell Brand has been allegedly targeted because of his voice against big pharma so of course people will have very different views about that situation versus yours.
I think apologise to the sister to smooth things over. She can’t be the target because you were abused. I can understand her upset and I am guessing that things got heated with both of you.

Edited

Don’t be a dope.

C4 doesn’t give a rats ass about RB’s views on big pharma. It’s just (brutally) a great story that any journalist would want to tell. It’s also a very important story - but taking the higher ground aside, it’s generated a ton of press and viewing figures which is what C4 as a business needs.

determinedtomakethiswork · 14/10/2023 08:41

ZebraD · 14/10/2023 07:52

I don’t think you should have responded to her. She wasn’t talking about you yet you have taken it personal so she has been defensive. Russell Brand has been allegedly targeted because of his voice against big pharma so of course people will have very different views about that situation versus yours.
I think apologise to the sister to smooth things over. She can’t be the target because you were abused. I can understand her upset and I am guessing that things got heated with both of you.

Edited

Do you mean his voice against big pharma that earned him an absolute fortune on YouTube?

Do you really believe he is innocent when you hear what the women have to say?

Nicole1111 · 14/10/2023 08:43

It really terrifies me that if I was ever raped and wanted to take it to court I’d potentially have people on the jury like your sister in law. Given the rape conviction rate is 1% I would hope that
as women we would all challenge any victim blaming and rape justification we see for the sake of other women and our daughters who have to grow up in this world.
I think you were right to challenge her and give her food for thought. That said I can recognise how sensitivity because of past trauma has likely impacted your ability to challenge, accept she’s an idiot and move on knowing you’ve done your bit for woman kind. If this has brought up painful feelings I’d suggest speaking to a counsellor. There are lots of survivor charities that offer free support. In terms of your sil I’d take some time and space away from her then aim for detached civility.

Hibiscrubbed · 14/10/2023 08:53

Cut her off. Truly, she’ll be no loss. Her post online was fucking insane. I imagine a lot of people think she’s a twat.

It sounds like her post was designed to be men-pleasing, which is fucking tragic.